Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

How can anyone fully blame Elliott for the Carlisle goals?

edited October 2010 in General Charlton
Yet again it was a litany of ill challenged secondary ball. Awful tackling from Racon, which blocked our own full back who then had to lunge on the first goal's cross which altered the flight of the ball, no chance for Elliott. Second goal maybe he should have not gone in with his feet, but no one was closing down the free Carlisle player apart from Elliott who busted a gut. Anyone whose played in goal knows Taiwo's accidental cross/shot are bloody hard to react to. Only the third goal, Elliott may have done better in my eyes especially as some were saying he took his cap off, but as usual who attacked the secondary ball?

I like Docherty, but would rather have Fortune and Dailly together. Indeed the Doc on the bench is perfect for bringing on as he's excellent at going up front and worrying the oppo in the last 15. I don't consider the Doc 'second' choice either as sometimes he'd partner Forch, when the opposition are big and when you need to rest Dailly. But there's no doubt in my mind Forch and Dailly have to play away at teams like Peterborough or Carlisle who are just more lively. And then I get back to my old gripe at Peterborough away McCormack has to play instead of Racon. There isn't enough terrier like closing down in this team, we need to be closing down ball before it even get's to our full backs. Racon is the worse player in the team at doing this.
«1

Comments

  • Same way as you always seem to find a way to slate Racon, Col. People have there agendas - they keep them tucked away when things are going okay, but as soon as they sense the slightest opportunity they find a way to blame it all on one or another player/manager/chairman etc etc.

    I think we should have a sponsored 'Charlton Life Change the Effing Record Day' in benefit of Demelza or something.
  • He was at fault for the 3rd goal but not much he could have done for the other 2.
  • he is a charlton fan after all.
  • Having only watched it on TV I agree with Col. 1st goal Racon muscled off, deep cross, Dailly beaten in air (I think). 2nd goal, cross from bye line levelish with penalty box line. Only a really good keeper would be confident of getting it. Doc beaten in air. 3rd goal, should do better, although a bit of a fluke. Doc stood still for rebound, whilst attacker reacted. Of course the goal highlights don't show other saves/mistakes or the general aura he gives off of being (un)comfortable to his defence.
  • edited October 2010
    Honestly think it is hard to attribute much blame to Elliot for the goals. He did not have a good game but really do not see how Elliot could have done much better with the goals, the defence let him down badly for the first two and the third was a fluke.

    Agree with above posts that Doc is more to blame.
  • The third goal was very similar to his mistake at stockport last year and he had no chance with the first or 2nd but then nor would any average keeper
  • Agree with Exiled
  • I was listening to Radio Cumbria and Racon did not get a single mention so he must have been rubbish.

    http://www.charltonlife.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=37433&page=1#Item_16
  • Colin you don't like Racon do you?

    Lets not keep pretending rob elliot is some amazing goalie.
    He is below average and cost us goals yesterday.
    Just watch the highlights back.

    Look at his positioning for 2 of the goals and look at how weak he was for the 3rd.
  • hes non league standard..wish we still had randy
  • Sponsored links:


  • [cite]Posted By: I-SAW-POUSO-PLAY[/cite]hes non league standard..wish we still had randy

    I think that's harsh! He is an average league one keeper, who I think is having a bit of a confidence crisis.

    i remember our first relegation from the Prem and thinking how daft it was that curbs would pay a million for a keeper from Bury, we then realised how important it was to invest highly in this position as a Charlton legend was born. We can't spend a mill but we could do with an above average div one keeper in this position for both the position and also the security of the defence.
  • Well, I just watched the goals and reckon that if anyone seriously blame Elliott for either of the first two goals then they don't know their arse from their elbow. They were both close-range finishes, no goalkeeper would have got near either of them.

    The third goal is a bit questionable but the ball was deflected and sometimes the ball takes a path that you just cant get to, its happened to better keepers than Elliott.
  • There are now 2 threads on Elliot & as I said on the other thread he was not to blame for any of the goals. The first 2 were nowt to do with him & the third was a mis hit cross, which also wasn't his fault.
  • edited October 2010
    Erm no he's not non-league standard. He's a very capable League One goalie. Fact is when I slate Racon it's for very obvious reasons, and if people like a few fancy touches in 90 mins then that's their perogative. Elliot has won many matches with excellent saves. It's a rare thing for any keeper to be good on crosses, but it's lunatic to blame Elliott for the first two goals.

    He may be at fault for the third goal, but having said that mis-hit looping crosses are bloody hard to react to. Most foolish and unfit, clueless fans seem to know perfectly how to spatially set yourself and back peddle to save these errant crosses. I seem to remember both Shilton and Seaman having problems with these mis-hit crosses, and back-peddling.

    With regards to Racon, it does not change his lack of positioning and his happy nack of rashly challening on the wrong side and invariably leaving a massive gap after his poorly executed challenge; indeed he's more likely to make a non-challenge or be nowhere to be seen on any secondary ball. Still if you think a few assists and a few goals, and very few good tackles is great in 70 odd matches..... I'm sure you've got the thought to justify the greatest non-player in our team Mr Racon.
  • Only seen the goals on Tv, and I cant see much fault with Robbie.
  • Its not only about the goals conceded though.

    If you look at the overall Elliott package I personally think you get more negatives than positives.

    Said it on the other thread and stand by it, I don't think he is a natural athelete and he looks to be struggling with his fitness levels. Others comment that he is over weight, I agree up to point, but think it goes deeper than that. He also picks up a number of niggles (a sign of a lack of natural fitness?).

    My issues with him are - gets beaten from long range far to often, looks leaden footed at times, flaps at crosses, doesn't talk enough. All of these will be contributing to the chaos infront of him.

    The defence aren't blameless, but Elliott has to shoulder some of the blame as well.

    Yes he's an average league one keeper, but do we have to accept that?. I think the answer was released in the summer without signing a contract. Andy Marshall.
  • Elliot does not command his area, he is slow to react in one on ones.

    If the back 4 have no confidence in their keeper they sit deeper than normal.

    I dont think any of it is down to his size Paddy Kenny was a big lump and a great keeper at this and championship level.

    The anticipation of the defenders is that they have to clear the ball not thatt the keeper is going to come and get it.


    His anticipation is not good enough
  • [cite]Posted By: ColinTat[/cite]Erm no he's not non-league standard. He's a very capable League One goalie. Fact is when I slate Racon it's for very obvious reasons, and if people like a few fancy touches in 90 mins then that's their perogative. Elliot has won many matches with excellent saves. It's a rare thing for any keeper to be good on crosses, but it's lunatic to blame Elliott for the first two goals.

    He may be at fault for the third goal, but having said that mis-hit looping crosses are bloody hard to react to. Most foolish and unfit, clueless fans seem to know perfectly how to spatially set yourself and back peddle to save these errant crosses. I seem to remember both Shilton and Seaman having problems with these mis-hit crosses, and back-peddling.

    With regards to Racon, it does not change his lack of positioning and his happy nack of rashly challening on the wrong side and invariably leaving a massive gap after his poorly executed challenge; indeed he's more likely to make a non-challenge or be nowhere to be seen on any secondary ball. Still if you think a few assists and a few goals, and very few good tackles is great in 70 odd matches..... I'm sure you've got the thought to justify the greatest non-player in our team Mr Racon.

    agree about both Robbie and Racon. Racon is a non-entity who brings nothing to the team. You can count the amount of assists and goals in the last two seasons on one hand and still have a couple of fingers left over. He brings nothing to the team and I'll be very happy when his contract is up and he moves on.
  • edited October 2010
    Our three main center halves, and their combination should easily be amongst the best in this div. That's utter tosh about the back four sitting deeper, if they have no confidence in the keeper. Answer me why would intelligent cd's, which our three are, want to sit deep if they think their goalie is not up to it? Any intelligent defender would push up desperately if they could because they know any ill-timed or misjudged header would result in an unconfident response from the keeper. So they'd push up to specifically avoid those problems. Anyways good intelligent defenders push up whenever they can. As you see Dailly always trying to do.

    We sit deep because it's Semedo's natural game, and Racon is so often woefully out of position Semedo is on his back heels. Semedo then melts too close to the defense. McCormack agressively attacks secondary ball, which thrusts play up enabling our midfield and defense to push up.

    Do you think Campbell and Toure said 'Lehmann's a complete loon on crosses, let's sit deep so he has to deal with more of them.'? No it was more incentive for them to agressively attack ball and attempt to push up negating Lehamnn's loony cross handling, hopefully leaving him to his excellent shot stopping.

    Like it or not we play an offensively minded right back, and usually our threat is our offensively minded wingers. It's pretty obvious if your front six, have 5 attack minded players you're fucked when you lose possession. Bringing in Jackson on the left can work away, as he's a little more reliable defensively than everyone bar Semedo. But if you play two wingers, and an attack minded full back it's pretty simple mathematics that you need two cm's who'll attack central ball. Much as I love Waggy and his energy. his defensive position is not quite there yet. You can't hope to dominate phases, or block the other team if Semedo is singularly covering every counter and every secondary ball in the middle.
  • Can't believe people happily call Robbie non league standard or at best a league one goalie.

    Jeez I hope Robbie doesn't come on here.

    Yes, he has his faults. Yes, he can do better.

    BUT

    He's one of us ffs!!!!! It's the first time in my lifetime that we actually have a player who when he kisses the badge he bloomin well means it.

    Get behind him more, make him feel wanted, big him up when he deserves it then maybe when he does make mistakes he'll feel more able to take it on the chin & do something about it.

    Come on Robbie, get your head down & take no notice.

    COYR!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Sponsored links:


  • I only saw it on tv, but it seemed Doherty was to blame for one and Daily another
  • Colin is spot on in my opinion.
  • Clem has summed up my thoughts perfectly
  • I disagree

    Robbie does not command his area resulting in defenders being too deep and clearing balls either via their head or boot from just in front or inside of our 6 yard area.


    Robbie should be clearing crosses and collecting the ball but he doesnt.

    Our defenders dont expect Robbie to be there and as a result we make more errors on crosses
  • This doesn't command his area thing is a red herring, imo. Deano was weak on crosses so he nearly always stayed on his line, which was fine because the defence knew this and dealt with crosses accordingly. If you have a keeper who comes for everything, then that can be fine too, because defenders know to leave the first ball to him and be on their toes to deal with any spills, or drop onto the goal line for last ditch clearances. The problem comes when keepers do neither one or the other - that's when the confusion and nervourness can creep in.

    When Robbie first came into the side, he just came a tried to deal with most balls into his zone in the box. I don't know if it's a confidence thing or what, but maybe that has crpet out of his play a bit and he's become a bit indecisive. As I've said before, being slagged off and constantly highlighted as in inferior to the man we let go ion the summer isn't going to help him regain his confidence is it?
  • I agree slating him does him no good what so ever.

    Thing is our GK position is a real weak link

    IMO we had 2 alternatives in the summer

    Randolph


    Marshall

    and we took none of them ..


    The fact that Robbie is a fan holds strength with me but it doesnt make him exempt from criticism nor people discussing his plus points and weak points
  • That's fine NLA, but it's slightly revisionist to suggest we just let Randolph go. He was offered an new deal but didn't like the terms. Motherwell offered him a deal he did like and he chose to go there instead. Maybe we could have tried harder to keep him, I don't know, but people talk like he wasn't wanted at all which isn't true. Sounds like Marshall maybe wanted too much money and, reading between the lines, I think signing a new senior keeper, permenently, was dependent on either cutting back the budget for out field players or off-loading Elliot. Perhaps they considered this but takers for Elliot weren't really forthcoming.

    Either way, someone has to be the weakest link in the team but as long as they're at least comptent for the level you're playing at then sometimes you just have to make do. Imo, Elliot has work to do if he wants to play consistently at a higher level than this and I don't think any of our promotion rivals (if we can claim to be promotion contenders ourselves right now) would go out of their way to sign him but that doesn't make him a terrible player. He's at least adequate at this level and there are no issues between him and the back four that a decent caoch shouldn't be able to sort out, especially when dealing with such experienced defenders.

    After 12 games in a Charlton shirt most thought Elliot was doing very well but there seems to have been a general dip in people's opinion of him over the lat 12 months - whose to say the same wouldn't have happened with Randolph? I've seen Marshall have a few dodgy games too and seeing as I've prorbaly seen him play less than 20 times, that doesn't suggest he'd be super consistent either. The grass isn't always so much greener on the other side, and don't forget, with Robbies injury and all the changes Parky has been making, the back 5 has hardly had much chance to settle into a firm understanding with each other.
  • I think i recall Randy wanted to be number 1 and wanted assurances of that, In the last 12 games i think he stated a real good claim for that position.

    I think Elliot has the makings of being a good keeper, It is an area that with Coaching and good coaching you can get rid of a lot of Elliots faults.

    Clangers that keepers make will always be in the game and you wont get rid of them.

    His is more postioning and anticipation and with coaching he should be able to get rid of them.

    The sad thing is we dont have an alternative Worner is too inexperienced and would have his confindence shot
  • I don't necessarily feel it a good decision to bring Robbie back in when he recovered from injury when Worner was playing so well at the time. Surely that just tells a player that you're in irrespective of whatever and then they feel under no pressure to perform. I would have made Robbie wait and work hard to get his place back and therefore possibly avoid any chance of complacency creeping in.
  • Colin - agree with most of your comments. As a team we are too open when we lose possession and easy to play against in the central areas. We have conceded 9 goals in the last 3 matches. Some have been through the middle, some from crosses and a few set plays. Show me a goal and I'll show you a mistake. There have been multiple errors on a number of goals in recent weeks, suggesting a collective weakness.
    The problem on Saturday was that Carlisle changed tactics at half time from hitting the target man (Madine), which we had contained comfortably, to playing long early balls in behind. Doc & Dailly were turned, struggled for pace, dropped deeper to compensate and left a big space in front, which semedo & Racon failed to cover. We couldn't get out of our defensive third. I was surprised how rattled two experienced centre backs became. Grella (on loan from Leeds) ran them ragged. They were hoofing it away in all directions, lost headers inside the box (all three goals), and mistiming a number of challenges to concede free kicks.
    Elliott made a poor mistake after 30 secs, and was lucky to escape when the Carlisle striker shot over from 6 yards, and had an uncomfortable afternoon from then on. IMO he has good ability, as highlighted by the double save early on v Brighton, but simply had a poor game on Saturday.

    How will Parky tighten up the defence and midfield to stop the goals against? Surely Fortune is a better option than Docherty at the moment, and McCormack for Racon. Worner is too small in stature for me, "never fall in love with a small goalkeeper" is an old adage worth remembering.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Roland Out Forever!