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OLD ARTICLE: Theo, Andy, Phil and Damian

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    edited October 2010
    Nigel, if you put any more back-hand on your compliments you could take on Murray (Andy that is) : - )

    I think the days of the Sargent major rule by fear manager are largely gone. People don't take that in any workplace and other than Fergie (who has a bit more than just a hairdryer up his sleeve plus his track record) who else is there?

    At this level the difference between sides is the coaching and organisation. We have the raw talent but it needs to be moulded.

    Powell/Matthew gives us both coaching and a marquee name. Personally I think the "Marquee name" concept is over rated. Nigel Adkins was the physio at Scunthorpe, he is not a shouter or hard man.

    I don't know much about Damien and have never even met him so I don't know if he can do or even wants a first team job. People are right to question if he can make the step up from youths to pros but wrong to dismiss him on the same grounds.
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    Read all of the above and there's one man who would fit the bill....George Graham.

    PS: Theo Foley was his right hand man too.
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    I always see Theo Foley around when i'm taking my boys to play football. he's still local and if he and George Graham took over it would be perfect. Can't see it happening in a million years at the moment mind you. Definitely think we need experience and in my opinion Henry, to compare Parkinson's eye for a player with Theo Foley's couldn't be more wrong. I've seen no suggestion that Parky has an eye for a player and even less suggestion he knows how to put togethera winning team. George Graham, all the time he had Foley at his side did both of these things. Parky seems a decent, hard working bloke. What we need is somebody who can manage a football team. Graham / Foley would be a dream combo for us. We must get some football experience and nouse into the club. A proven track record is a must.
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    Theo is at every home game lovely fella great to talk to over a few beers

    in mgmt at our club


    please god no
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    Not necessarily suggesting Foley (my gut feel is that he's done his time) and Graham could be relied on to make his own appointment for the coach role. I don't for one minute think it would happen either but if I were running the club I'd have already been on the phone to find out whether there was still fire in his belly to shake up an under performing group of players.
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    used to know his son quite well - said at dinner time the salt and pepper pot would be the centre halfs and the knife and fork would push on - always talking football. Not as manager, but certainly i'd have his brains / eye for a player in. Look at what we have at the moment who are probably making the decisions - Parky, Breaker, Chapple - Have any of them got a track record to speak of? Have any of them done anything since they've been at the club that makes you think they know what their doing? Football ain't that difficult but bloody hell, their making it seem impossible. I thought we wewre slumming it in the Championship, now i look at the Championship as though it's something special. Anyway, no point moaning, hurry up Mr Sainsbury's, let's get this show back on the road. I'm sure we will but not until we have this new investment / direction.
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    Andy Nelson had Killer, Flanagan, Paddy and Keith Peacock and couldn't create a challenging team - I don't think he is the best example to use. He took no interest in training and was a useless manager. He took us up from Div 3 because he was fortunate enough to have enough players well abouve the level - Arthur Horsfiled new where the goal was and Killer - well I don't need to elaborate.
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    edited October 2010
    [cite]Posted By: MuttleyCAFC[/cite]Andy Nelson had Killer, Flanagan, Paddy and Keith Peacock and couldn't create a challenging team - I don't think he is the best example to use. He took no interest in training and was a useless manager. He took us up from Div 3 because he was fortunate enough to have enough players well abouve the level - Arthur Horsfiled new where the goal was and Killer - well I don't need to elaborate.

    But he did take us up when Foley, who'd signed those players, hadn't.

    As I said he inherited a good squad.
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    Maybe Foley would have taken us up too and then done betetr with what he had after that. I think he was a proper coach - yes questions about the managemnet side but we had a few sterile managers before Lennie came along.
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    [cite]Posted By: MuttleyCAFC[/cite]Maybe Foley would have taken us up too and then done betetr with what he had after that. I think he was a proper coach - yes questions about the managemnet side but we had a few sterile managers before Lennie came along.

    It was an analogy rather than a critique
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    i may be completely wrong but i'm guessing Parkinson inherited Cureton and Ilwelumo when he had success at Colchester? Do we know what went wrong in particular at Hull? Did he have money? I remember when he came to us he realised he needed to learn more and saw Alan Pardew as the perfect teacher. Need i go on?
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    [cite]Posted By: Bexley Dan[/cite]i may be completely wrong but i'm guessing Parkinson inherited Cureton and Ilwelumo when he had success at Colchester? Do we know what went wrong in particular at Hull? Did he have money? I remember when he came to us he realised he needed to learn more and saw Alan Pardew as the perfect teacher. Need i go on?

    Parky signed them both Iwelumo and Cureton for Colchester on free transfers.

    Also signed Michael Turner for Hull
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    [cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Bexley Dan[/cite]i may be completely wrong but i'm guessing Parkinson inherited Cureton and Ilwelumo when he had success at Colchester? Do we know what went wrong in particular at Hull? Did he have money? I remember when he came to us he realised he needed to learn more and saw Alan Pardew as the perfect teacher. Need i go on?

    Parky signed them both Iwelumo and Cureton for Colchester on free transfers.

    Also signed Michael Turner for Hull

    Maybe his luck's run out..... i'll get my coat.
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    His signings are not in question imo none of them have been real bad idea signings

    Benson pedigree in the league below us

    Francis highly rated in this league (how i dont know)

    Doherty League 1 team of year last season

    Dailey (enough said great signing)

    Reid again good signing

    Martin (gamble but i believe he is a good player)

    Abbott scored goals in this league last season


    it is his abiltity to coach and motivate that is in question
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    edited October 2010
    I think this is a good analogy and probably a better comparison than Mike Bailey's team in 80/81 because we could not get promoted last season.Therefore , this might be a long building job rather than a quick bounce to the CCC.

    You always remember your first team and era and this was mine . I won't claim that I remember this well ( I was under 10 ). Foley never succeded elsewhere as a Manager but as others have stated had great success as George Graham's number 2 at Arsenal and Millwall where he would have helped developed and scouted many youngsters like David Rocastle and lower league players like Perry Groves . Before Graham and Foley arrived Arsenal were a sleeping giant.

    Likewise most people were impressed by Parky's transfer activity during the summer and respect his eye for a player . Parky clearly is a nice bloke ( like Foley ).

    A final thought , one of our least impressive players of the period was Eamon Dunphy who wrote the book ' Only a Game' where he joins Charlton at the end. Dunphy was a Millwall legend and remains their most capped player. He tells that Foley phoned him at home ( clearly tapping up happened then ).He was so disillusioned with life with the Lions that he signed despite describing Charlton as 'nancy boys' and questioning their passion.

    In the postscript we learn that Eamon is concerned by Andy Nelson's( who had been a coach at Millwall) arrival because he seems to want a more physical player , but Nelson utilised Dunphy and he was part of the rotation which led to promotion . Indeed he added another Millwall player Harry Cripps to the mix .

    The point is this a modern Millwall player could have described us as Dunphy did , but this description would never have been valid for Nelson's team ( he actually beat Millwall twice) or for most of the last 10 years.
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    [cite]Posted By: Richard J[/cite]I think this is a good analogy and probably a better comparison than Mike Bailey's team in 80/81 because we could not get promoted last season.Therefore , this might be a long building job rather than a quick bounce to the CCC.

    You always remember your first team and era and this was mine . I won't claim that I remember this well ( I was under 10 ). Foley never succeded elsewhere as a Manager but as others have stated had great success as George Graham's number 2 at Arsenal and Millwall where he would have helped developed and scouted many youngsters like David Rocastle and lower league players like Perry Groves . Before Graham and Foley arrived Arsenal were a sleeping giant.

    Likewise most people were impressed by Parky's transfer activity during the summer and respect his eye for a player . Parky clearly is a nice bloke ( like Foley ).

    A final thought , one of our least impressive players of the period was Eamon Dunphy who wrote the book ' Only a Game' where he joins Charlton at the end. Dunphy was a Millwall legend and remains their most capped player. He tells that Foley phoned him at home ( clearly tapping up happened then ).He was so disillusioned with life with the Lions that he signed despite describing Charlton as 'nancy boys' and questioning their passion.

    In the postscript we learn that Eamon is concerned by Andy Nelson's( who had been a coach at Millwall) arrival because he seems to want a more physical player , but Nelson utilised Dunphy and he was part of the rotation which led to promotion . Indeed he added another Millwall player Harry Cripps to the mix .

    The point is this a modern Millwall player could have described us as Dunphy did , but this description would never have been valid for Nelson's team ( he actually beat Millwall twice) or for most of the last 10 years.

    Excellent posting Richard.

    You could not have had two more contrasting players in Dunphy and Harry Boy but what they both had was the inherent desire to win. That is something we lack and whilst the motivation to do so has to come from the Manager, the same shortcomings are apparen in the players. How many of them look around for someone else to perform rather than acting as the catalyst themselves?
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    What NLA said.
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    I voted for 2 in the poll, it's starting to look like although Parky has built a decent squad for this league, he won't get the best out of it. We might need a change just for some new ideas.

    Will say Parky did a good job last season, and it seems that's being easily forgotten. Considering many insisted he was nowhere near good enough, didn't have a clue, even after keeping our better players, it still takes a decent manager to make the play-offs.

    Remember last season he made us hard to beat. We lost 8 times in the league. A few disasters along the way I agree, but we were up there all season and were very close to 2nd place, it went right down to the last day.

    If you look at it as promotion = success and no promotion = failure then yes he did fail. You can't judge everything like that though. It's a long season so there's no way if he was as bad as some insist he is, that we'd have been in the top 6 all year. Our players should not have 'walked League One', despite what some thought at the time.

    He turned Wagstaff around from a player with no confidence to one that offered something off the bench, and now with his goals to go with his energy, offers more from the start. He's still improving and that's all with Parky as manager.

    As NLA said, his signings are generally good. Even this season you can see we should be able to get that bit more from players like Martin and Jackson. If we go up under another manager, part of it will be down to Parky re-building the squad this summer. No one gets a completely new team in January.

    When it comes to tactics and subs I just think he's average. There are a good number of examples of when he has got it right. Our good start, the run after the Northwich defeat, several other games and moments over the season.

    That said it might just be time for a change. There's a good base for another manager to work from, unlike 08/09 when only a few managers would have kept us up. That squad was complete unbalanced mess with a losing mentality. If a new manager comes in I expect to see gradual improvements until we eventually get a more consistent team. We'll have to be patient, but if we don't eventually see an improvement, he won't be able to blame it on the way Parky built this squad.

    Any replacement simply must be a clear improvement, unfortunately not every possible replacement will be a clear improvement. Murray and the board have make the right decisions.
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    edited October 2010
    Amazes me that people think he has built a good squad for this league. Slow at the back, no ability in central midfield and no pace up front (save for Anyinshah who we haven't seen much of yet). How many slow central defenders do we need?
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    [cite]Posted By: Bexley Dan[/cite]Amazes me that people think he has built a good squad for this league. Slow at the back, no ability in central midfield and no pace up front (save for Anyinshah who we haven't seen much of yet). How many slow central defenders do we need?

    We are in division 3. Most teams are slow at the back, particularly in the middle.
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    [cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Bexley Dan[/cite]Amazes me that people think he has built a good squad for this league. Slow at the back, no ability in central midfield and no pace up front (save for Anyinshah who we haven't seen much of yet).How many slow central defenders do we need?

    We are in division 3. Most teams are slow at the back, particularly in the middle.

    really? My Saturday side had pace at the back but didn't mean they were any good. Doesn't necessarily follow that as you go down the leagues, players get slower.
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    [cite]Posted By: Bexley Dan[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Bexley Dan[/cite]Amazes me that people think he has built a good squad for this league. Slow at the back, no ability in central midfield and no pace up front (save for Anyinshah who we haven't seen much of yet).How many slow central defenders do we need?

    We are in division 3. Most teams are slow at the back, particularly in the middle.

    really? My Saturday side had pace at the back but didn't mean they were any good. Doesn't necessarily follow that as you go down the leagues, players get slower.

    Not necessarily agreed but in general it does appear that the lower you go the slower defenders (especially centre backs) get.

    The reason for that I suspect is that as one descends through the levels a lot of teams lump it long and skywards so it comes down with snow on it which is meat and drink to a big lump with the turning circle of the QE2.
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    [cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Bexley Dan[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Bexley Dan[/cite]Amazes me that people think he has built a good squad for this league. Slow at the back, no ability in central midfield and no pace up front (save for Anyinshah who we haven't seen much of yet).How many slow central defenders do we need?

    We are in division 3. Most teams are slow at the back, particularly in the middle.

    really? My Saturday side had pace at the back but didn't mean they were any good. Doesn't necessarily follow that as you go down the leagues, players get slower.

    Not necessarily agreed but in general it does appear that the lower you go the slower defenders (especially centre backs) get.

    The reason for that I suspect is that as one descends through the levels a lot of teams lump it long and skywards so it comes down with snow on it which is meat and drink to a big lump with the turning circle of the QE2.

    One lump or two? I'd go for one (excuse the pun)
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    You miss understood me bd I said his singings had logic and good reasoning behind them. I never said they were all successful or good singings.

    But there was logic behind them.

    Forts and daily should give the speed and experience. Doherty and fry give the same blend
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    [cite]Posted By: Bexley Dan[/cite]Amazes me that people think he has built a good squad for this league. Slow at the back, no ability in central midfield and no pace up front (save for Anyinshah who we haven't seen much of yet). How many slow central defenders do we need?
    Its not great but it should be able to get results to challenge for the play offs.

    Any pacey centre backs available at this level will lack something else. Sam Sodje the perfect example, made a lot of stupid mistakes and occasional rash tackles. We can cope without real pace at centre back like other teams have to IMO.

    Midfield not brilliant but if a good manager comes in its nothing a signing or two can't sort out.

    Up front again how do you find pace along with players that can use it? Not every successful partnership has one quick striker alongside one big striker.

    As I said it's a good base to work from, and like with Reid last season, a signing or two can really change things.
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    [cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Bexley Dan[/cite]Amazes me that people think he has built a good squad for this league. Slow at the back, no ability in central midfield and no pace up front (save for Anyinshah who we haven't seen much of yet). How many slow central defenders do we need?
    Its not great but it should be able to get results to challenge for the play offs.

    Any pacey centre backs available at this level will lack something else. Sam Sodje the perfect example, made a lot of stupid mistakes and occasional rash tackles. We can cope without real pace at centre back like other teams have to IMO.

    Midfield not brilliant but if a good manager comes in its nothing a signing or two can't sort out.

    Up front again how do you find pace along with players that can use it? Not every successful partnership has one quick striker alongside one big striker.

    As I said it's a good base to work from, and like with Reid last season, a signing or two can really change things.


    Agreed that it's salvageable but it can't be denied that it's deficient in some very key areas and over abundant in others. The 4 centre halfs you mention are only part of the story - what about Llera and Mambo? and the fact that Semedo and i would have thought Francis and Jackson could also play there. That, to my mind is at least 2 centre halfs too many and with no creative midfield player/s or pace up front i'd say it's a pretty poor effort. Why this lot should be able to challenge for play offs also doesn't seem obvious to me. There is also no striker who you would call tricky, i.e comes short without being a target man. Martin looks better facing goal than back to it and the rest have about as much craft as ..... It's a poor effort at building a squad if you ask me.
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    edited October 2010
    Disagree we have too many centre backs. Fry is here as cover for left back and happens to be able to play CB.

    Mambo is one (hopefully) for the future. It's like saying we have too many strikers because Tuna and Perkins are here. None are ready yet. Mambo didn't keep his place in Eastbourne's team. Despite what Parky says in public, like all managers do, they know Mambo is someone we hope will make it, not someone that definitely will.

    If Mambo was 21 rather than 18 and not on his first pro contract I'd agree.

    I don't disagree with what you say could be missing, but I'm sure most clubs challenging for 5th or 6th like we hope to will had similar flaws to their squads.

    Last season we went until February without a left winger, got by with 3 centre backs and our pacey strikers weren't up to the standard. You don't need a perfectly balanced squad in this league to make the play offs.
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    I agree with much of what is said. We do lack a bit of creativity but so do most of our opponents. Yes we are a bit slow at the back but we do have experienced players -Doc was one of Norwich's best players at this level, Dailly was our best player. I think where Parky has got it wrong is that he hasn't found a way to create more chances - I think you can do this with the players at our disposal but you do need to be a bit more versatile tactically. Because defenders are generally slow- you need to have pace up front - especially if you don't have the quality in that Department.

    Wingers are a bit of a luxury but worth their place for the extra chances they create- but we don't create extra chances despit Reid being one of our best players. These things are issues that Parky needs to address - and I'm not convinced he has done so. I think he is waiting for the rocket to take off but he might need to give it a push -that is his weakness - changing tactics to address issues - to be fair Capello at a much higher level seems to have the same affliction. I would like him to succeed and whilst the fat lady is warming up, she hasn't started her aria yet.

    Look at the problems - try to solve them - maybe Racon would be better playing more offensively in a midfield 3. Maybe if we don't have great finishers that we should introduce what defenders don't enjoy playing against - power and pace. Maybe Waggy gould play a central role behind a striker - these may not be the solutions but they are attempts to solve the problems. I don't see any evidence that Parky is thinking about solving the problems. On Saturday he seemed to blame the defence where we were outfought in midfield and toothless up front. I believe if you sort those things out, teh defence will improve.

    Parky has to grow some balls and take some risks - try some things FFS. If he does he may just save his job. If he keeps things as they are, how can we expect things to change.
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    Some very good posts here, starting with Henry's. I'm old enough to remember Foley/Nelson pretty well, and I think its an excellent analogy. Paddy Powell may not have liked Nelson, but it didnt stop him giving one of the finest displays of wing play I've ever witnessed at the Valley, under the lights against Colchester. We won 4-1.

    I have no idea about Damian Matthews but what his proponents have said here makes sense. I guess what is being suggested is an experienced older hand above him. Lennie comes to mind but I am not sure how well Lennie has delivered in his recent roles.

    What is worrying is that in this htread a lot of sensible Lifers (and other people like Ben Tegg who always has good insights) are here, being their most thoughtful and nearly everybody wanting change quickly. Unfortunately I'm not sure if RM is there yet.
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    It's very encouraging that so many of the knowledgable posters have such a high opinion of the coaching skills and potential of Damien Matthew. Personally I dont know him or follow the youth teams enough to have a valid opinion. I do however have reservations about promoting our youth team manager all the way to the top of the pile in one go. I do not believe that he would be able to command the instant respect of the first team squad or for that matter exite the larger less informed mass of Charlton supporters much like myself. Certainly bring him up to working with the first team squad and allow him to flourish there first. If and I say if Parky does leave then the next appointment has to unite all of us behind the next man. I can't see Damien Matthew doing that and we would be once again in the situation ala PP where a very large percentage of the support didn't want him. The next appointment has to come from outside.
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