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Will RBS pull the plug on Liverpool

latest is that there are two bids on the table for £300M but Hicks and the other guy value the club at £600M - reminds me of Mike Ashley before Newcastle were relegated as he touted them around the Middle East for double their value.

RBS have secured loans of £230M(?) which are overdue. Given Liverpools league position wouldn't you be a tad nervous and start appointing someone to sort it all out?
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Comments

  • Boston Red Sox will have bought them by then.
  • edited October 2010
    [cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]Boston Red Sox will have bought them by then.
    I think there's still a way to go on this story.

    First, Gilet and Hicks will do everything in their power to stop this sale going through. Why? Because at £300m, with £230m going to pay off long-term debt, they would stand to lose something like £140m of their own investment. Not nice.

    Second, if the club is sold (in effect from under their feet), who is to say that NESV will not saddle the club with the debt it needed to raise to buy it in the first place? Liverpool may even end up with a bigger debt to service under NESV than they had with Gilet and Hicks, who would, in turn, lose the lot.

    Third, if the sale does not go through before the end of next week, RBS will be in a position to take control of the club, place it in adminstration and sell it to the highest bid, to cover their secured £230m. So NESV need to ask the question - do they pay £300m now, or £230m next week, with the loss of ten points? What changes between now and then? Only one fixture. Against Llverpool's relegation rivals, Everton. With Wolves playing West Ham on Saturday, a bad result in the Merseyside derby could see Liverpool rooted to the bottom of the Premier League. Again Gilet and Hicks would lose everything.

    Liverpool fans have wished to see the backs of their American owners. This just goes to reinforce the saying, be careful what you wish for.
  • RBS need the money. Apparently its about £230M plus £40M in fees. As long as RBS cannot be sucessfully sued by G & H (their lawyers will take days to decide if they can), i think they will pull the rug if these buyers are certain to perform.
  • [cite]Posted By: Chizz[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]Boston Red Sox will have bought them by then.
    I think there's still a way to go on this story.

    First, Gilet and Hicks will do everything in their power to stop this sale going through. Why? Because at £300m, with £230m going to pay off long-term debt, they would stand to lose something like £140m of their own investment. Not nice.

    Second, if the club is sold (in effect from under their feet), who is to say that NESV will not saddle the club with the debt it needed to raise to buy it in the first place? Liverpool may even end up with a bigger debt to service under NESV than they had with Gilet and Hicks, who would, in turn, lose the lot.

    Third, if the sale does not go through before the end of next week, RBS will be in a position to take control of the club, place it in adminstration and sell it to the highest bid, to cover their secured £230m. So NESV need to ask the question - do they pay £300m now, or £230m next week, with the loss of ten points? What changes between now and then? Only one fixture. Against Llverpool's relegation rivals, Everton. With Wolves playing West Ham on Saturday, a bad result in the Merseyside derby could see Liverpool rooted to the bottom of the Premier League. Again Gilet and Hicks would lose everything.

    Liverpool fans have wished to see the backs of their American owners. This just goes to reinforce the saying, be careful what you wish for.

    So basically which ever option they go with they're going to lose money? Good investment lads!
  • I just hope we've trousered the Shelvey money!
  • edited October 2010
    they wont be deducted 10 points apparently as they will still be solvent.

    from the bbc:
    However, the Premier League says it is happy with the business plan of the NESV and has confirmed that the club would not suffer a nine-point penalty if it were to enter administration as the club would remain fully solvent.

    "The aim of the regulations is primarily to capture clubs who have gone into insolvency. This is manifestly not the case with Liverpool Football Club," a Premier League source told PA Sport.

    "For example, last year West Ham's Icelandic owners went into administration but that did not lead to any Premier League action as the club itself was solvent."
  • If the Red Sox take them over they'll be known as the Boston Strugglers.
  • It seems as though RBS have forced a sale - at around £300m, of that £240m goes to RBS to pay off the loan and a further £40m will go in fees leaving £20m.

    I think Hicks & Gillett invested £140m, so a stunning return on their investment in the Liverpool "franchise". The loans were due to be re-paid by the 15th October - so unless the two Yanks can re-finance or find a better deal they are out. Failure to re-pay the loans by then would mean a £60m fine. According to reports they are taking legal action to stop the sale going through, but they really should quit while they're behind. They are obviously out of their depth and pretty much despised by Liverpool's fan base, I can't see what they are trying to gain by hanging on in there, other than a bit of pride.
  • My understanding is that the board voted 3-2 in favour of the deal, however G&H claim to have sacked the opposition and put their own people on board. However the Chairman (?) is claiming that G&H do not haver the authority to change the composition from the board and this was written in the company articles on appointment of the Chairman.

    I can see the legals on this running and running. 'Specially if they can get it inot the states.
  • I think RBS insisted on board control in return for extending the deadline on the loan...I don't know if Hicks has the power to halt a sale or sue for "fair value"?

    As for this administration stuff... West Ham story is a red herring as the club themselves never went into admin... don't know the ins and outs but RBS may have to put Liverpool into admin to get their money (same as the guys who hit Palace/Jordan)... can't see how they could avoid 9 point penalty ! If you or I couldn't raise £230m by next Friday then that sounds like insolvent to me?!
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  • Generally one tends to have sympathy with clubs in trouble but Pompey, Palace and Liverpool have all had me rubbing my hands together in glee at their plight. I'd be particularly delighted at the ironing of Britain's most unsuccesful company taking them over because of poor financial management. Looking forward to the Mickeys organising a Sun-style boycott of RBS which they'll expect the rest of us to care about.

    I realise we could end up in similar strife at some point and none of this helps us in getting investment, but can't stop enjoying this for now.
  • From what I can make out H&G agreed as a part of extending these RBS loans previously to give Martin Broughton sole power to change the board, its not something h&g can do now, as part of this deal he is able to sell the Club as well. The two Yanks may have lost a hell of a lot of money here, they will challenge in the courts, who knows what will happen.
  • [cite]Posted By: PeteF[/cite]From what I can make out H&G agreed as a part of extending these RBS loans previously to give Martin Broughton sole power to change the board, its not something h&g can do now, as part of this deal he is able to sell the Club as well. The two Yanks may have lost a hell of a lot of money here, they will challenge in the courts, who knows what will happen.

    it will all come down to the fine print and its interpretation. And of course the judge, for the scousers sake lets hope he's not a Man U fan, if the case is heard in the North West then they are probably ok.
  • I would have though MB has got full authority from RBS to get a deal through so they can realise their cash. RBS probably don't want to take it over completely but lets see what happens in the next few days/weeks.

    I was working at Lloyds group when the Selhurst deal went through and was disgusted to see all this rubbish on their site about how they didn't want to take the club out - they probably wrote off 75%+ of what was owed (and Aviva took a similar hit on St Mary's)

    UEFA, Platini and the FA need to move a bit faster on these rules about only spending what you bring in and we might see a few less multi-millionaire players and agents, not to mention quik fix managers
  • edited October 2010
    http://www.footballeconomy.com/

    For all the LFC/RBS/Red Sox info and a great quote
  • Surely the premier league won't dock Liverpool 9 points in any case. They've got 6 points from 7 games and a 9 point deduction would give them -3. They'd need to somehow get 50-53 points from 30 games to stay up, which is of course do-able but in their current form, certainly not do-able.

    Will the premier league really want to risk losing one of it's biggest assets to the championship? They might not be the force they once were but are massively supported worldwide and this brings in huge revenue. I just cannot see them giving them a deduction.
  • [cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]Surely the premier league won't dock Liverpool 9 points in any case. They've got 6 points from 7 games and a 9 point deduction would give them -3. They'd need to somehow get 50-53 points from 30 games to stay up, which is of course do-able but in their current form, certainly not do-able.

    Will the premier league really want to risk losing one of it's biggest assets to the championship? They might not be the force they once were but are massively supported worldwide and this brings in huge revenue. I just cannot see them giving them a deduction.

    No doubt the Premier League will find a loophole in its laws to enable one of the big 4 to wriggle out of a points deduction.
  • But the Law is supposed to be equal for everyone.Being a big team should not count.Italian giants AC Milan and Juventus were punished and humiliatingly relegated and deducted points.Also another famous Italian club Fiorentina were sent to the 3rd Division.
  • of course liverpool wont be affected.. RBS will buy them out as they know they will get their money back with interest..
  • RBS surely won't put them into administration because there is no logical benefit for them to do so. They would no longer be guaranteed to get all their money back, and would lose control of the situation. Theoretically, they could end up with 20p in the pound or similar.

    Also, the bank knows administration will trigger a points penalty, and that a penalty will increase the chances of the club being relegated, and therefore slash the club's value, decreasing the chance of RBS getting its money back via a post-administration sale.
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  • There has always been one rule for the favoured clubs and one rule for the others.

    Liverpool will wriggle out of it like West Ham did. It is clubs like us (the only Premiership club to my knowledge to be punished for a frivolous appeal) and Swindon who feel the full weight of footballing law.
  • A new buyer has come in offering more dosh.
  • [cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]There has always been one rule for the favoured clubs and one rule for the others.

    Liverpool will wriggle out of it like West Ham did. It is clubs like us (the only Premiership club to my knowledge to be punished for a frivolous appeal) and Swindon who feel the full weight of footballing law.

    Off the top my head both Derby and Manchester United (Ferdinand) have also been done with the frivoulous appeal in the Premiership.
  • High Court rule in favour of Broughton and RBS.
  • [cite]Posted By: shirty5[/cite]High Court rule in favour of Broughton and RBS.

    Hardly a surprise.
  • and Hicks and Gillette have been refused the right to appeal
  • So RBS can sell or call in the administrators and perhaps H&G can ask for a better deal / sue for compo... but if your mortgage term ends and you can't repay / sell the house / renew the mortgage don't expect to get full market value from the lender!
  • [cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]and Hicks and Gillette have been refused the right to appeal

    Sort of...the judge has allowed them the right to appeal but said that an appeal would be "inappropriate", which presumably means something along the lines of go ahead and waste more money if you want to, but the decision won't change.

    It looks as though NESV will be the new owners - their bid was accepted unconditionally last week and can't now be overturned. If they pull out then bid negotiations can start again, but it appears as though H&G have proved again that the best way to make a small fortune is to start with a large one.
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