The Horror Tackle...

addick16

There were some absolutely disgraceful tackles this weekend. (De Jong on Ben Afra .... Karl Henry on Jordi Gomes).

De Jong has a scissor motion to break the leg of Ben Afra and Karl Henry was looking to kill Gomes.
Seems to be that these horror tackles are only taking place in the English Game
- Both of these tackles were destroyer type players trying to eliminate the oppositions creative playmaker.

i have no respect for Karl Henry after that tackle.... shameful

MuttleyCAFC

Refs have to take the blame. They seem more tolerant of hard play/fouls in this country than abroad. Players can get away with assault and you only have to compare with Semedo's sending off against Bournemouth to see that something is wrong somewhere.

Exiled_Addick

I'm not going to comment on these two tackles specifically until I've had a chance to YouTube them, but easily the dirtiest player at the World Cup was Van Bommel, a Dutchman who's played all over Europe but never been anywhere near the Premier League. Pogatetz came to England off the back of a massive ban for a terrible tackle in Russia. Go back to '66 and teams from all over the World were kicking lumps out of Eusebio to stop him. Serious foul play is not purely an English disease, and it's the players who carry it out that are to blame - not the refs, just like it's not the Police's fault if someone robs a bank, you still need a man willing to rob the bank, however incompetent the police force may be.

That said, it's long overdue that the very worst tackles carried serious penalties - maybe the player in question shouldn't be able to play again for 15/20 games or until the injured player plays a competetive match again, whichever is the longest. It's certainly something Fifa and the FA should be doing something about instead of twating around with the offside law, yet more incompotent officials and making sure managers don't stray outside those pointless bloody technical areas.

ValleyGary

karl henry is a scumbag....been at it all season.

Dizzle

Never seen that Alex Witsel tackle i take it?

Jayajosh

Have a look on youtube if you can at 'dirty' Henry roughing up Joey Barton a few weeks ago. I can't believe he was not sent off....and that was against Joey Barton!

Leroy Ambrose

You're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think its an English problem. Every country has issues with horror tackles. I remember watching maradona as a kid at the nou camp - he was murdered every time I saw him play. Through the nineties, all of barca's flair players got seven shades of shit kicked out of them. De la Pena used to get it every week as well, and Messi gets it too. That's just one team, in one country. It happens everywhere and always has done. It's just the fact that you notice it more because everything is recorded in HD, 3D and repeated ad nauseum to give Martin Tyler's monkey something to witter on about.

BlackForestReds

Seems to be that these horror tackles are only taking place in the English Game
.............

Apart from de Jong's attempt at heart surgery on Xabi Alonso in the WC Final...

Kap10

yeaaaaaaaa abbott

Kap10

whoops wrong thread!!!!

Carter

It's a shame because Karl Henry is a good player who I would love in our side and was the difference the times we played them in tier 2

Exiled_Addick

Had a look at them both last night. I think they're being a bit overhyped tbh. Henry's was a bad tackle, but late and rash rather than outright violent - not really a 'Horror' tackle.

In De Jong's case it didn't look that bad to me - certainly not a tackle I'd expect to break someones leg.

Both weren't as bad as the one on Basey last season, although Henry's had the potential to be.

[cite]Posted By: Kap10[/cite]yeaaaaaaaa abbott

On that note, Abbott was perhaps a bit lucky to still be on the pitch to score his goal after had a crack at replicating De Jong's World Cup Final karate kick.

Jarman

Wolves set out to play this way.
Henry is the main tool to doing so.
He is an animal and wolves are no better than stoke or blackburn.

T

I'd say neither of them were horror tackles, Henrys probably more of an Orange than a red. Both players go into win the ball their studs are not high, arguably reckless but certainly no intent to 'do' the player.

The reaction to the tackles from the opposition (ie none) sugguests amongst the pro's there wasn't a concern that they we deliberately out to injure the players... Unlike Gerrards elbow a few weeks ago against Sunderland.

I agree with exciled above. Abbots tackle was much worse than either of those two IMHO.

As for it being only an English problem here are a few from the continent that are xxx rated
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IESVopMSXpo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m085-74VkjY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKt4IBxD5oo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPoUNaqbnr0

Off_it

Agree with Leroy above. I don't think that tackles are any worse these days, in fact the game is probably a lot "cleaner" - although I have zero evidence for this, just a hunch. The big difference is that all professional games in this country have decent quality cameras recording everything now - and often more than one - so any "major" incident can be beamed into your living room almost instantly and replayed ad nauseum by Sky.

For example, the tackle on Basey last year. Not long ago the only way to have seen that tackle would've been to have gone down to Bristol midweek and seen it for yourself - and then you would've only got one look at it so you might not have a good angle, might've been looking the other way or - more likely - would be off your face and literallyh bling drunk (which, to be fair, would be the only consolation for going down to Bristol midweek!)

thenewbie

I think its fair to say that these things look worse in slow motion most of the time. To follow on from Off It's point, when you see it live most of the time all you see is someone sliding in then someone else flying through the air/rolling on the floor in agony. When its played back again you can see The Big Moment, such as the Ramsey challenge last year when you could literally see the point where his leg broke.

Off_it

[cite]Posted By: thenewbie[/cite]I think its fair to say that these things look worse in slow motion most of the time. To follow on from Off It's point, when you see it live most of the time all you see is someone sliding in then someone else flying through the air/rolling on the floor in agony. When its played back again you can see The Big Moment, such as the Ramsey challenge last year when you could literally see the point where his leg broke.

Ah, but does it look worse in slow mo or not as bad in "real time". Pointless point really, but I'm just looking forward to the "in boot"/"in pad" cameras to be introduced so we can have even more camera angles to watch!

thenewbie

I actually think some way to follow the ref's point of view might be quite good, then we can see how it looked from their perspective rather than criticising with the benefit of ten replays from twenty angles. Obviously some decisions would still look like jokes but maybe sometimes we can see their perspective.

DartfordAddick

Dunno about you lot, but I thought that foul on Francis was absolutely shocking... ;-)

Mortimerician

I think the commentators don't help, constantly using the term "common sense" when meaning refs not enforcing the appropriate punishments within the laws of the game (and indeed generally not knowing the rules of the game - if I hear one more mention of the "last man" rule I'll scream). It all sets up the view that better refs let things go. I think the experience of the likes of our game with Bristol last year, or the WC final are that when refs fail to clamp down early they often spiral out of control. So common sense is actually nonsense.

Chris_from_Sidcup

Unless Karl Henry and De Jong change their ways, they'll be sent off again (or in de Jong's case a first time) at some point this season as all the refs will be looking out for them and opposition players will play on that with refs.

What amazes me is de Jong broke a USA players leg in a friendly a few months back, made that kung fu kick on Alonso and now broke ben Arfa's leg and hasn't been sent off for any of the 3 challenges. Yet you could get 2 yellows (and sent off) for kicking the ball away and then taking your shirt off to celebrate a goal.

I definitely think they should bring in some kind of system whereby bans can be upgraded to 4/5/6 matches depending on the severity of a tackle. But i'd strongly disagree with those that say 'oh he's out injured for 6 months, so he should be banned for 6 months', if you did that then people would be afraid to tackle at all incase they injured someone.

Exiled_Addick

[cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]But i'd strongly disagree with those that say 'oh he's out injured for 6 months, so he should be banned for 6 months', if you did that then people would be afraid to tackle at all incase they injured someone.

I don't why that would be the case - if the injury occured because of a reasonable, every day sort of challenge then they'd have nothing to worry about. The only players who'd need to worry would be the ones who regularly go around dishing out knee high/studs-up/two-footed challenges - the serious foul play kind of stuff and why should we be worried about players being scared to do that kind of thing, that would be the whole point. Kevin Muscat ended Matty Holmes career with an horrific assault, but I think he got a 3 or 4 match ban for it - how is that justice? It wasn't the first or last time Muscat did it either so there should probably be some sort taking account of previous record when dishing out the bans etc. In Muscats case he probably should have ultimately been taken out of football for other players safety.

Chris_from_Sidcup

[cite]Posted By: Exiled_Addick[/cite]

[cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]But i'd strongly disagree with those that say 'oh he's out injured for 6 months, so he should be banned for 6 months', if you did that then people would be afraid to tackle at all incase they injured someone.

I don't why that would be the case - if the injury occured because of a reasonable, every day sort of challenge then they'd have nothing to worry about. The only players who'd need to worry would be the ones who regularly go around dishing out knee high/studs-up/two-footed challenges - the serious foul play kind of stuff and why should we be worried about players being scared to do that kind of thing, that would be the whole point. Kevin Muscat ended Matty Holmes career with an horrific assault, but I think he got a 3 or 4 match ban for it - how is that justice? It wasn't the first or last time Muscat did it either so there should probably be some sort taking account of previous record when dishing out the bans etc. In Muscats case he probably should have ultimately been taken out of football for other players safety.

But what if a player with a reputation (de Jong for example) went in for a 50-50 legitimate challenge and the other player came off worse and got injured. Would de Jong deserve a lengthy ban because of his reputation?
You'd get people saying it was a fair challenge and you'd get others saying he knew what he was doing. Already on this thread Addick16 says he swept his leg round to injure Ben Arfa but you've said it didn't look that bad. And i think Henry's tackle was a disgrace but you've said it was "overhyped" and "not really a horror tackle". So we all have differing opinions and who would be the person to make the call of did he/didn't he mean it?

addick16

i think that De Jong meant to injure BenAfra. He didnt mean to break his leg, but the way DeJong swept his trailing leg onto the planted leg of BenAfra, DeJong was looking to eliminate the BenAfra threat from the match.

thenewbie

But if it was an accident? I can't remember who broke (Newcastle) Alan Smith's leg a few seasons back but it was a very bad injury and kept him out for months, but when looked at it was a very unfortunate mixture of timing and chance (e.g studs sticking in the ground) that would probably be a yellow/red but not an x-months ban.

Exiled_Addick

[cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]So we all have differing opinions and who would be the person to make the call of did he/didn't he mean it?

Well that would be down to the authorities wouldn't it, professionals well briefed in the rules, perhaps with some ex player presence and decisions made by a panel rather than an individual - it seems to work okay for the justice sytem so I don't see why it couldn't be used by football. You'd still get disagreement, but you'd at least have proper punishments acting as a deterent and I don't think it would stop players making legitimate tackles.

IA

FIFA call these tackles "criminal" and consider introducing video technology