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Eyeore said 'We'll be stuck in this division for years'.

I'd somewhat swallowed this gloom notion without question. So, assuming the club can survive and that we end the season safely, albeit unspectacularly, Parky ends his tenure and we get a new manager. A lot of folks seem to believe that a new manager can't get us out of this League at the first ask? So I want to ask why not, and are there any stats on this scenario please?

Comments

  • Money, I would say and the lack of it.
    Also what new manager would do better? Is there a really good one sitting there just waiting for the phone call from Charlton? I dont think there is.
  • TELTEL
    edited October 2010
    The money question is one we as fans cant really answer....last year we were told that promotion was imperative as money was tight, yet the Chairman has come up with a few shillings to now control the club outright, and of course shelled out a lot of money at this level for a striker.....so I would take the no money thing with a pinch of salt.....there are always ways to raise money should the need arise, these are succesful business people afterall. I think part of our problem as fans is really based around our poor economy, everywhere we look we see doom and gloom, money is tight, Im sure a lot of you are feeling the pinch as we are....I think this then transcends into every aspect of our lives, to the point where we cannot see the woods for the trees. I think there are a lot of managers out there who would walk to the ground for an opportunity to manage the club.....are they any good? well only time will tell really.....everything in business is a gamble, but can we realistically expect Phil to turn things around? and can we afford to not gain promotion. We are told not, but then again we were told this last year too....my fear as Ive stated before is the diminishing crowds, very easy to lose, very difficult to regain. The one thing the club has learnt without any shadow of a doubt since we fell out of the Premier league is that without us paying out our few sheckles on the turnstyles they are well and truly buggered as a business. This alone should be raising the alarm bells down in the boardroom. Id be interested to know the true number of bums on seats for the MK Dons clash at home...certainly looked a lot less than the 13,100 which in itself was poor. Ive heard so many conversations amongst people who I wouldnt consider to be fickle fans saying that they are considering not going...this isnt good news for the club and as a businessman Id be horrified to hear that people were no longer going to "shop" at my place of work.....in basic terms, this is what it amounts to.....we all get caught up in the emotions and feelings for "the Club", but often forget its a business. Being around the club through all the dark times from the late sixties onwards, I felt profoundly proud of what we did in 1986, but we also had the burden of football going through the doldrums and us having to play away every week. The standard of football wasnt great, but the teams that Lennie and later Curbs/Gritty put out were if nothing else battlers. We as fans have traditionally been battlers, something which time has eroded. Getting back to the Valley was a hurdle that I at times had severe doubts that we would/could achieve, but a few thousand like minded souls and the hard work headed by Alwen and Norris overcame the seemingly impossible. Then came the late 90's and the rebuilding of the Valley backed by a superb team of individuals augmented by the prime time of a certain Mr Curbishley and another team of battlers..This coincided with football becoming perhaps as popular as it was in the pre and postwar years, and with it came capacity crowds at the Valley as we incrementally increased the size of the ground and the succesful Target 10,000 campaigns. All this took a lot of hard work and a series of gambles.....most of them paid off....I can remember being gutted when Curbs got the nod in front of Gritty for instance....great gamble, that paid dividends. So, before I bore anyone else to sleep, I will wrap this up by saying that perhaps, its now time to face up to where we are and the way the club seems to be heading, (it reminds me of a juggernaut on a icey hill, brakes full on but continues to pick up a downhill momentum), take what for some will be an unsavoury gamble and at least try and give someone the opportunity to turn the clubs fortunes around on the pitch....I Like Phil, but its just not happening for him or for us as fans.
  • ten more games i'd give PP and if it hasn't shown any decent signs of improvement it's gonna be time fro him to jog on cos to me the question would be not can anyone do any better it would be can anyone do worse
  • [cite]Posted By: andyaddick[/cite]"Money, I would say and the lack of it." ????????? PP has had more than most to spend !
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfers/5494052/Transfers-League-One-summer-2010.html

    List of all League One summer transfers.

    We are right up there but it's hard to really tell how mug everyone has spent, so many deals are undisclosed. And of course someone like Sheff Wed might be spending a fair bit on wages but nothing on fees.
  • We have a squad that can easily get into the play offs. Really last year our start disguised that again we were only play off contenders. This years squad is one that will not frazzle in the winter months like last year. Once Parky get's the balance right between Martin, Anyainsah, Reid and Wagstaff we have more than enough for most teams.

    We just need to be playing McCormack or Jackson in the middle with Semedo. Racon can come in to a midfield 5, or against teams as shit as Gillingham were last season.
  • [cite]Posted By: andyaddick[/cite]"Money, I would say and the lack of it." ????????? PP has had more than most to spend !

    As with all our managers he's had to sell players worth a lot more than those he's brought in?
  • edited October 2010
    [cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]ten more games i'd give PP and if it hasn't shown any decent signs of improvement it's gonna be time fro him to jog on cos to me the question would be not can anyone do any better it would be can anyone do worse

    So in ten games what would be success and equally what would be failure?

    Oh and do JPT and FA Cup count, for me not.
  • You "Tel" it like it is, mate. Great summary of the current situation and what influenced our success in the past.

    As many have posted on here before, everything around the club seems flat at the minute. The question is, what can be done to change it.

    As Tel rightly said, it's bums on seats that count. The "bring a friend to Yeovil" campaign and Airman's efforts to bring in thousands of schoolkids from around the areas of our support are both initiatives to be applauded . But we all know that it's what happens ON the pitch that makes the difference between a wavering fan coming along to a match , or deciding to give it a miss. And with the colder months approaching, the latter will inevitably be the winner....

    ...unless the football is a "must see".

    I believe that we, the fans can do little more than encourage our friends & family to join us - unless Airman comes up with another cunning plan ! It has to be down to management & players to produce consistently good performances - set out their wares - then we might witness an increase of support on the terraces , however slow that may be. It's not going to happen overnight but the ball is well & truly in Parky and the players' court.
  • Jeez! I'm not sure it's a good idea to let kids see CAFC the way we're playing at the moment! They'll never come back.
  • From the relegation of 1957 to 1971 Charlton were a selling club - when we were relegated to the third division it took 3 seasons to climb back out and Theo Foley built the squad but was replaced by Andy Nelson... the way I see it each year we lose a few fans (who may come back) but we are also losing the silly contracts signed in the Dowie / Pardew era.

    I think at least half the missing fans will come back once we hit a run and that must make the club attractive to new investment - I suspect it would be reasonably cheap to transform this club back into mid-table championship... as long as it is done carefully. The key must be to find new money and ensure that the youth set up brings us players and sales

    So how many years? Depends if we can be transformed into a team that can win big matches... we are not going to finish in the top two so must be able to win the playoffs... 3 decent signings at Christmas might do it!
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  • If a team isn't performing then somebody has to take responsibility and pay the price. Generally that usually is the manager.

    For to long now Charlton have failed to perform. Players come and go and still there is no improvement. Parkinson picks the team, and the team play to Parkinson's tactics. The failure to beat teams that any team with aspirations of promotion should be winning is down to Parkinson and the coaching staff.

    I am afraid that all the time that Murray supports Parkinson then promotion is beyond Charlton. Our only hope is for a new manager to come in and freshen up the way that the club is run. The manager, backroom and coaching staffs all need replacing. Otherwise we are going to be in this division for a few years.
  • My concern, I am sure held by many is that if this is the case....... A lot more fans will depart.

    There will always be a core of hard line supporters at any club, and at Charlton probably more than most. Quite a few of my friends and football fans have not renewed this year. I know of a couple that may claim they will not if we are in this division next year!.That remains to be seen....... and although the financial question is probably the overriding factor for a ot of fans, It is not the only consideration. The time and emotional enjoyment has to be part of the package. I am not too sure at present that we deliver that. Being third tier football, we are playing third division football, our results confirm this. The question regarding wether we will be in this division for years, overrides the position that will we be around for years!.

    A very uncomfortable and I am sure hostile view to float on here, but it is a real issue!.

    This is going to take time, money and good management as well as a much higher level of football skills in this division to rise above the mediocre football we are playing at present.

    I do not mean that we sack Parky, and drop half the players, but we have to raise our game, an easy thing to say, but we do seem to be floundering, and are not an attractive club at present. Sorry to speak like this but if you speak to non Charlton supporters, or ex ones that seems to be the views that I get coming back to me.
  • [cite]Posted By: ken from bexley[/cite]My concern, I am sure held by many is that if this is the case....... A lot more fans will depart.

    There will always be a core of hard line supporters at any club, and at Charlton probably more than most. Quite a few of my friends and football fans have not renewed this year. I know of a couple that may claim they will not if we are in this division next year!.That remains to be seen....... and although the financial question is probably the overriding factor for a ot of fans, It is not the only consideration. The time and emotional enjoyment has to be part of the package. I am not too sure at present that we deliver that. Being third tier football, we are playing third division football, our results confirm this. The question regarding wether we will be in this division for years, overrides the position that will we be around for years!.

    A very uncomfortable and I am sure hostile view to float on here, but it is a real issue!.

    This is going to take time, money and good management as well as a much higher level of football skills in this division to rise above the mediocre football we are playing at present.

    I do not mean that we sack Parky, and drop half the players, but we have to raise our game, an easy thing to say, but we do seem to be floundering, and are not an attractive club at present. Sorry to speak like this but if you speak to non Charlton supporters, or ex ones that seems to be the views that I get coming back to me.

    Not unreasonable at all Ken.

    It is a concern when you read threads and people like Telnotinoz and Goonerhater, committed longterm fans through thick and thin for 40 years or more, are seriously conremplating giving up on it.

    We can't hide our heads under the duvet all the time even if we'd like to!
  • It's an entertainment business and lets be honest Charlton fans have not been entertained for a long long time.
    Some entertaining players such as Jonjo were not given an opportunity to do so. Others such as Reid, Wagstaff, or Martin either don't have a licence to do so or are prevented from doing so due to poor tactics and a lack ambition in our style of play.
    We are gripped by a fear of failure that is preventing the team from performing to the best of it's ability.
    For too long we have worried about what the opposition can do to us, rather than what we can do to the opposition. This is the third division, we are not up against Man u or Arsenal. We should have enough belief in our own ability to attack teams and break them down. We should be creating chances and scoring plenty of goals.
    If the fans don't start receiving some entertainment soon I fear that they will leave in their droves. Disposable income has been cut to the bare bones and people can no longer waste it doing something that gives them no satisfaction.
    Parky will never get this team playing good football because he is so sh*t scared of losing his job.
  • edited October 2010
    [quote][cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]ten more games i'd give PP and if it hasn't shown any decent signs of improvement it's gonna be time fro him to jog on cos to me the question would be not can anyone do any better it would be can anyone do worse[/quote]


    Dowie, Reed, Pardew.

    They could do worse.
    Last rerm we got to the playoffs. We are just off the playoffs now. We need the stability of a manager who isn't looking over his shoulder.
  • edited October 2010
    [cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: andyaddick[/cite]"Money, I would say and the lack of it." ????????? PP has had more than most to spend !
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfers/5494052/Transfers-League-One-summer-2010.html

    List of all League One summer transfers.

    We are right up there but it's hard to really tell how mug everyone has spent, so many deals are undisclosed. And of course someone like Sheff Wed might be spending a fair bit on wages but nothing on fees.

    Only four clubs seem to be spending significantly, ourselves, Saints, Huddersfield and Swindon - pretty much as expected. I'd guess we are 3rd in the wages table so we really should be achieving more than mid-table. For me though I agree with our friend down under, the lack of entertainment over the last few years is key. We really shouldn't be relying on moments of brilliance from players like Reid to lift the fans. When did we last steam-roller a side? We can't even thrash lower league sides in the cup. Saturday two down and we still got everyone back at corners. When did we last have a clever free kick or corner?
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