[cite]Posted By: Harry Gregory[/cite]What was exactly Parkinsons role as assistant manager? he was certainly there when Pardew was buying all these rubbish players that have now so hamstrung Parkinsons ability to produce a team because of the cost of them.
Did he have no input at all into buying players that cost so much and served us so badly? Did he indeed have any influence at all? Was he there just to pole dance for the players?
I think we can be pretty certain Pardew made the final decision when it came to his signings. Just as Parky would have with his signings if Kinsella or Breacker disagreed.
Ive always wondered that too harry...maybe not the bit about the pole dancing. I have always thought that while he was his assistant he would have had some say.
Even if he had no influence or say he would at least have had the advantage of time, experience and insight into the squad, club and budget and therefore would be able to implement his own plan when he took full control...which up til now has been unsuccessful.
RM needs to take some of the responsibility too for failing to have a contingency for when Curbs left and the subsequent agreement of silly wages and transfer deals. I also question his judgement when we were told PP would be judged on results before being given a full time contract which was then extended.
Got a feeling that we are just floundering and there is no masterplan, strategy or direction at the moment and we are just hoping things will work out well.
KHA to be fair to pardew he was sacked because he put his team together (and not a bad one at that) and couldn't get them to play together or to their strenghts. Rather like Parky and his team.
Parkinson said on thursday that he never rated Mou2. Maybe this wasn't discussed before he was signed, but he was certinly not a player he wanted, so I can only assume that Pardew signed him.
If you exclude the wages of the top 3 or 4 earners last season the Charlton total wage bill, I think, would still have been in the top 4 or 5 in the division. So I don’t think the ‘Charlton had one of the highest wage budgets last season’ is a Red Herring.
Yes, a lot of our highest earners were midfield players. But Parky knew that before the start of last season. People on here think he has 100% control over all transfers so why didn’t he sell or at least send some of them out on loan and thereby release funds to strengthen the squad in the positions he considered were weak?
How long more can Pardew be blamed for the team’s performance on the field? I have been racking my brains for an example in recent history where a team’s poor performance and results are blamed on a manager who left the club nearly two years previously!
Can anyone remind me when we last changed manager and subsequently improved?
Did we get much better when Pardew was sacked and Parky took over? No, we were relegated.
Was there a vast improvement when Reid left and Pardew took the reins? No, we squandered money and fell out of the Premier League.
Did we become a better side when Dowie left and Reid took charge? No, the losing run got worse.
Were we suddenly world-beating when Curbishley walked out and Dowie made manager? No, we spent a fortune and propped up the table.
Did Curbishley succeeding Lawrence see immediate success? No, it took seven years to get promotion.
Did Lawrence set the world straight alight? No, the club's financial situation imploded, resulting in losing the ground within three years.
Did Craggs, Mullery or Bailey produce a dramatic upward turnaround in success? No: they weren't given long enough.
You have to go back 36 years, to Andy Nelson, to find a manager who has been parachuted in and produced (relative) success straight away.
Once, in 35 years, and 11 managers, has Charlton found success by switching managers.
Now, one in 12 might look good odds to some people. But for me, we're far better off giving the current manager time, rather than scrabbling around to find a cheap alternative and praying we get lucky.
Parkinson's contract ends at the end of the season , so lets judge him then.
I can't see him being sacked , just at that point his contract not being renewed. Yesterday's result is depressing , but it is not the end of the world .
[cite]Posted By: uncle[/cite]KHA to be fair to pardew he was sacked because he put his team together (and not a bad one at that) and couldn't get them to play together or to their strenghts. Rather like Parky and his team.
Pardew's team was a bad team. Some individuals were good players.
Strikers were poor, Gray didn't play regularly for Barnsley last season, Varney isn't a goalscorer at Championship level, McLeod and Dickson were generally poor in this league etc.
Midfield we had some decent footballers but it was completely unbalanced, most were attacking players who didn't like tackling and defending in Ambrose and Bouazza, likes of Sam, Zheng and Racon were a bit better but again similar types of players, technical and not reliable and physical. Jonjo was 16 at the time and again another attacking midfielder. Holland was passed it, fortunately Parky knew that and dropped him for Semedo when possible.
Defence he left us with only two of our own centre backs, whether they are good enough or not doesn't matter, you need more than 2. He then brought in an average player in Cranie and a player in Primus near the end of his career both on loan. Two of the full backs were Basey and Moutaouakil, both without a club. Then he had Youga who was unreliable at Championship level (and like Varney, ruined his confidence).
Although Parky hasn't got this new team playing together consistently yet, it's at least more balanced in that we have options in every position and a better mix of different types of players. Pardew did build a bad team, it just happened to have some good individual players who didn't complement each other.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Chizz[/cite]Can anyone remind me when we last changed manager and subsequently improved?
Did we get much better when Pardew was sacked and Parky took over? No, we were relegated.
Was there a vast improvement when Reid left and Pardew took the reins? No, we squandered money and fell out of the Premier League.
Did we become a better side when Dowie left and Reid took charge? No, the losing run got worse.
Were we suddenly world-beating when Curbishley walked out and Dowie made manager? No, we spent a fortune and propped up the table.
Did Curbishley succeeding Lawrence see immediate success? No, it took seven years to get promotion.
Did Lawrence set the world straight alight? No, the club's financial situation imploded, resulting in losing the ground within three years.
Did Craggs, Mullery or Bailey produce a dramatic upward turnaround in success? No: they weren't given long enough.
You have to go back 36 years, to Andy Nelson, to find a manager who has been parachuted in and produced (relative) success straight away.
Once, in 35 years, and 11 managers, has Charlton found success by switching managers.
Now, one in 12 might look good odds to some people. But for me, we're far better off giving the current manager time, rather than scrabbling around to find a cheap alternative and praying we get lucky.[/quote]
[cite]Posted By: uncle[/cite]KHA to be fair to pardew he was sacked because he put his team together (and not a bad one at that) and couldn't get them to play together or to their strenghts. Rather like Parky and his team.
Pardew's team was a bad team. Some individuals were good players.
Strikers were poor, Gray didn't play regularly for Barnsley last season, Varney isn't a goalscorer at Championship level, McLeod and Dickson were generally poor in this league etc.
Midfield we had some decent footballers but it was completely unbalanced, most were attacking players who didn't like tackling and defending in Ambrose and Bouazza, likes of Sam, Zheng and Racon were a bit better but again similar types of players, technical and not reliable and physical. Jonjo was 16 at the time and again another attacking midfielder. Holland was passed it, fortunately Parky knew that and dropped him for Semedo when possible.
Defence he left us with only two of our own centre backs, whether they are good enough or not doesn't matter, you need more than 2. He then brought in an average player in Cranie and a player in Primus near the end of his career both on loan. Two of the full backs were Basey and Moutaouakil, both without a club. Then he had Youga who was unreliable at Championship level (and like Varney, ruined his confidence).
Although Parky hasn't got this new team playing together consistently yet, it's at least more balanced in that we have options in every position and a better mix of different types of players. Pardew did build a bad team, it just happened to have some good individual players who didn't complement each other.
Scoham, I think Uncle was replying to my suggestion that Pardew had build a decent team at Southampton.
However, I agree with all that you said about what he left us with.
We went straight up with Mike Bailey.I think we only got Terry Naylor that year to the team that got relegated.Plus we reached the 5th Round of the then massive FA Cup.
[cite]Posted By: kings hill addick[/cite]Scoham, I think Uncle was replying to my suggestion that Pardew had build a decent team at Southampton.
However, I agree with all that you said about what he left us with.
Fair enough then, he did build a decent team at Southampton.
Do think Pardew probably learnt some lessons from his time here. Many of his signings there you knew they should do a job. We had no idea what we were getting with his signings here, probably too many were foreign players and young players from the lower leagues.
[cite]Posted By: Chizz[/cite]
Were we suddenly world-beating when Curbishley walked out and Dowie made manager? No, we spent a fortune and propped up the table.
yawn.
sir alan didn't walk out. he had a year left on his contract which he was prepared to see out and help guide whoever muz had lined up as his replacement. muz knew better and told him to leave a year early.
it was lennie that walked out.
and i doubt we'd be as low as we are now if either dowie or pardew were still manager.
[cite]Posted By: Chizz[/cite]
Were we suddenly world-beating when Curbishley walked out and Dowie made manager? No, we spent a fortune and propped up the table.
yawn.
sir alan didn't walk out. he had a year left on his contract which he was prepared to see out and help guide whoever muz had lined up as his replacement. muz knew better and told him to leave a year early.
it was lennie that walked out.
and i doubt we'd be as low as we are now if either dowie or pardew were still manager.
Maybe you're deliberately missing the point, which is: lurching from one manager to another is not the recpie to quick, sustainable success.
[cite]Posted By: Chizz[/cite]Maybe you're deliberately missing the point, which is: lurching from one manager to another is not the recpie to quick, sustainable success.
parky has been at the club for about 4 years now and i'm not prepared to have him here for the next 20 in the bizarre hope that he will turn it around if we keep giving him time and that we are just unlucky and all the refs are against us or that we shouldn't sack him because,well he's a jolly nice chap.
One way or another I think Parky will be here til the end of the season at least, as that's when his contract is out. Of course what I think may make Murray's decision harder either way is that for the foreseeable future every decision is pretty much his and his alone to make, if the decision he chooses makes or breaks us then the responsibility is not the boards, it is his. I for one would not like to be in that position...
The most important position in any football club is team manager. The success or failure of every other single aspect of the football club is dependent on that one man. As been said quite correctly a thousand times o this board PP is a decent man who is trying is best no doubt but it is obvious that something is not right. I will agree with those who have said Parky has assembled a squad that exceeded my expectations given our financial predicament but most importantly IMHO I have not seen those players performing to their potential or even to a standard required to ensure we don't get drawn into a relegation battle. This has been the scenario in all the period of Parkys time at the club whether as assistant or in sole charge. If there was even the slightest sign that things were improving I could make an argument for him staying. I cannot see any sign that this team are moving in the right direction. The next six games or so are crucial in deciding our season or perhaps even our existence. I will reserve complete judgement for those next six games and I suspect that Mr. Murray will give a little longer but the vultures are certainly gathering if not yet circling.
[cite]Posted By: Chizz[/cite]Maybe you're deliberately missing the point, which is: lurching from one manager to another is not the recpie to quick, sustainable success.
parky has been at the club for about 4 years now and i'm not prepared to have him here for the next 20 in the bizarre hope that he will turn it around if we give him time and that we are just unlucky and all the refs are against us or that we shouldn't sack him because,well he's a jolly nice chap.
Whether or not you are "prepared to have him here...", the fact remains that changing a manager is *not* a recpipe for immediate, permanent success. If it's taken a number of years for Parky to create *his* squad, it will take at least as long for the nexxt man to do so. And, on the basis of recent history, what's the betting that, by continually changing, we won't be a couple more divisions down the league in the next four years?
I agree that Charlton have had their best times in recent years when they have showed faith in the manager and given them time. But the question is, what if they are backing a loser? I'm not saying that is necessarily the case with Parky but you have to draw the line at some point.
he should stop buying mediocre players ok our budget is tight and he can only buy players he can afford but for christ sake we have kids at this club who can play why doesnt he give them a chance ,the fans would hopefully get behind our home grown players ie tuna , mambo ,solly and they would then give parky some time to blend a side together ,at the moment he has brought in 2 players from southend who got relegated ,2 forwards who in my eyes aint any good and he should av kept bauza who i thought looked like he can play i dont understand parkys thinking in playing with 2 target men ,1 target man ok but i would give tuna a run in the side alongside a target man and see how it goes.
if he hasnt got the bottle to play the youngsters i feel for the future of the club and i also feel he should pack his bags along with the backroom staff and let someone come in and oversee the whole structure of the club from the youth development to the 1st team .
I think the end of this season would be a reasonable point to take stock.
The two examples of us getting out of this Division in the last 40 years lead to a conclusion that change at the top could help make the necessary impact and has the opposite conclusion to Curbs having seven years.
Bailey took his team up and I believe that had he stayed at the Valley he may have been as succesfull as Lennie was five years later . However , as others have pointed out he only purchased Terry Naylor , (although Kevin Smith and Paul Walsh's emergence helped also )so it was mainly Andy Nelson's side and he was able to make them a decent side .
Five years earlier Nelson had taken up broadly Theo side.
I am not arguing we should sack Parky , but lets not even consider it now but it might be an option next season. So lets get behind him and support the side.
i find it frightning for a club that is skint he is spunking whatever money RM has managed to scrape together up the wall. Abbott and Benson are shockin signings.
[cite]Posted By: northstandsteve[/cite]i find it frightning for a club that is skint he is spunking whatever money RM has managed to scrape together up the wall. Abbott and Benson are shockin signings.
money that he could of spent on a decent youngster not a 30 year old must be our scouting system .
He must of watched benno playing for a different team than me.
Daggers play totally different style of football than us so to try and make him into a player that he is not is just stoopid
For Benson to play well and score you need supporting midfielders and early crosses.
[cite]Posted By: northstandsteve[/cite]yep we told em mate Chapple is shite. You and me are very very rarely wrong and we told em.
mate if i was tuna id be banging on parkys door asking why i aint getting a chance when he scores in the reserves and then has to watch the likes of abbott and sodje and benson miss chance after chance i find it total madness .
Comments
Even if he had no influence or say he would at least have had the advantage of time, experience and insight into the squad, club and budget and therefore would be able to implement his own plan when he took full control...which up til now has been unsuccessful.
RM needs to take some of the responsibility too for failing to have a contingency for when Curbs left and the subsequent agreement of silly wages and transfer deals. I also question his judgement when we were told PP would be judged on results before being given a full time contract which was then extended.
Got a feeling that we are just floundering and there is no masterplan, strategy or direction at the moment and we are just hoping things will work out well.
Yes, a lot of our highest earners were midfield players. But Parky knew that before the start of last season. People on here think he has 100% control over all transfers so why didn’t he sell or at least send some of them out on loan and thereby release funds to strengthen the squad in the positions he considered were weak?
How long more can Pardew be blamed for the team’s performance on the field? I have been racking my brains for an example in recent history where a team’s poor performance and results are blamed on a manager who left the club nearly two years previously!
Did we get much better when Pardew was sacked and Parky took over? No, we were relegated.
Was there a vast improvement when Reid left and Pardew took the reins? No, we squandered money and fell out of the Premier League.
Did we become a better side when Dowie left and Reid took charge? No, the losing run got worse.
Were we suddenly world-beating when Curbishley walked out and Dowie made manager? No, we spent a fortune and propped up the table.
Did Curbishley succeeding Lawrence see immediate success? No, it took seven years to get promotion.
Did Lawrence set the world straight alight? No, the club's financial situation imploded, resulting in losing the ground within three years.
Did Craggs, Mullery or Bailey produce a dramatic upward turnaround in success? No: they weren't given long enough.
You have to go back 36 years, to Andy Nelson, to find a manager who has been parachuted in and produced (relative) success straight away.
Once, in 35 years, and 11 managers, has Charlton found success by switching managers.
Now, one in 12 might look good odds to some people. But for me, we're far better off giving the current manager time, rather than scrabbling around to find a cheap alternative and praying we get lucky.
I can't see him being sacked , just at that point his contract not being renewed. Yesterday's result is depressing , but it is not the end of the world .
Strikers were poor, Gray didn't play regularly for Barnsley last season, Varney isn't a goalscorer at Championship level, McLeod and Dickson were generally poor in this league etc.
Midfield we had some decent footballers but it was completely unbalanced, most were attacking players who didn't like tackling and defending in Ambrose and Bouazza, likes of Sam, Zheng and Racon were a bit better but again similar types of players, technical and not reliable and physical. Jonjo was 16 at the time and again another attacking midfielder. Holland was passed it, fortunately Parky knew that and dropped him for Semedo when possible.
Defence he left us with only two of our own centre backs, whether they are good enough or not doesn't matter, you need more than 2. He then brought in an average player in Cranie and a player in Primus near the end of his career both on loan. Two of the full backs were Basey and Moutaouakil, both without a club. Then he had Youga who was unreliable at Championship level (and like Varney, ruined his confidence).
Although Parky hasn't got this new team playing together consistently yet, it's at least more balanced in that we have options in every position and a better mix of different types of players. Pardew did build a bad team, it just happened to have some good individual players who didn't complement each other.
Did we get much better when Pardew was sacked and Parky took over? No, we were relegated.
Was there a vast improvement when Reid left and Pardew took the reins? No, we squandered money and fell out of the Premier League.
Did we become a better side when Dowie left and Reid took charge? No, the losing run got worse.
Were we suddenly world-beating when Curbishley walked out and Dowie made manager? No, we spent a fortune and propped up the table.
Did Curbishley succeeding Lawrence see immediate success? No, it took seven years to get promotion.
Did Lawrence set the world straight alight? No, the club's financial situation imploded, resulting in losing the ground within three years.
Did Craggs, Mullery or Bailey produce a dramatic upward turnaround in success? No: they weren't given long enough.
You have to go back 36 years, to Andy Nelson, to find a manager who has been parachuted in and produced (relative) success straight away.
Once, in 35 years, and 11 managers, has Charlton found success by switching managers.
Now, one in 12 might look good odds to some people. But for me, we're far better off giving the current manager time, rather than scrabbling around to find a cheap alternative and praying we get lucky.[/quote]
Mike Bailey also got us promoted pretty quickly!
Scoham, I think Uncle was replying to my suggestion that Pardew had build a decent team at Southampton.
However, I agree with all that you said about what he left us with.
Do think Pardew probably learnt some lessons from his time here. Many of his signings there you knew they should do a job. We had no idea what we were getting with his signings here, probably too many were foreign players and young players from the lower leagues.
yawn.
sir alan didn't walk out. he had a year left on his contract which he was prepared to see out and help guide whoever muz had lined up as his replacement. muz knew better and told him to leave a year early.
it was lennie that walked out.
and i doubt we'd be as low as we are now if either dowie or pardew were still manager.
parky has been at the club for about 4 years now and i'm not prepared to have him here for the next 20 in the bizarre hope that he will turn it around if we keep giving him time and that we are just unlucky and all the refs are against us or that we shouldn't sack him because,well he's a jolly nice chap.
In 1974 after 8 games we were in 5th place with 10 points, we went on to win promotion...
Try having a bit of patience and let the bloke do his job....
yeah that does sound kind of odd.
if he hasnt got the bottle to play the youngsters i feel for the future of the club and i also feel he should pack his bags along with the backroom staff and let someone come in and oversee the whole structure of the club from the youth development to the 1st team .
The two examples of us getting out of this Division in the last 40 years lead to a conclusion that change at the top could help make the necessary impact and has the opposite conclusion to Curbs having seven years.
Bailey took his team up and I believe that had he stayed at the Valley he may have been as succesfull as Lennie was five years later . However , as others have pointed out he only purchased Terry Naylor , (although Kevin Smith and Paul Walsh's emergence helped also )so it was mainly Andy Nelson's side and he was able to make them a decent side .
Five years earlier Nelson had taken up broadly Theo side.
I am not arguing we should sack Parky , but lets not even consider it now but it might be an option next season. So lets get behind him and support the side.
money that he could of spent on a decent youngster not a 30 year old must be our scouting system .
Daggers play totally different style of football than us so to try and make him into a player that he is not is just stoopid
For Benson to play well and score you need supporting midfielders and early crosses.
We do not do this so how will it ever work
mate if i was tuna id be banging on parkys door asking why i aint getting a chance when he scores in the reserves and then has to watch the likes of abbott and sodje and benson miss chance after chance i find it total madness .
Smiley wink thingy
Apparently its me thats always right (you mean one of these) ;-)