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Stop Closure of Queen Mary's

edited September 2010 in Not Sports Related
LINK BELOW TO PETITION:

http://campaigns.libdems.org.uk/saveqms&petition=success&id=524&lang=eng

The below story is full of rubbish reasons to close it !

source: http://www.hsj.co.uk/acute-care/nhs-london-revives-queen-marys-sidcup-closure-plans-amid-patient-safety-concerns/5019638.article?referrer=RSS

link to web campaign to save it: http://www.faect.org.uk/
NHS London revives Queen Mary's Sidcup closure plans amid patient safety concerns
22 September, 2010 | By Sally Gainsbury

NHS London has recommended “temporarily” closing the accident and emergency and maternity units at Queen Mary’s Hospital in Sidcup.

The recommendation follows an independent review into patient safety at South London Healthcare Trust which runs the hospital. The review – as yet unpublished – concluded the units were not safe to run over winter months, when inpatient numbers invariably rise.

In a statement, NHS London’s chief nurse Trish Morris-Thompson said: “We found that despite numerous efforts the trust had not been able to recruit enough middle and junior-grade A&E doctors and midwives. Instead, the trust has been relying on temporary clinical staff with no flexibility to call on extra staff to care for higher numbers of patients if needed. This is not sustainable and could potentially put patients at risk.”

The strategic health authority’s recommendation to close the units “temporarily” from the end of November will spark interest as it mirrors earlier plans to close the units which were cancelled by health secretary Andrew Lansley in May.

Mr Lansley’s moratorium on NHS London’s capital-wide reconfiguration plans led to a series of board resignations at the SHA, including its chairman Sir Richard Sykes who wrote to the health secretary saying: “Our visions of healthcare delivery bear so little in common that it would make no sense for me to continue in this role.”

The hospital was brought under the control of South London Healthcare NHS Trust in April 2009 following a merger of three smaller hospital trusts – Queen Mary’s Sidcup, Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Woolwich and Bromley Hospitals. But the new trust has struggled to maintain adequate staffing levels across all of its sites.

The recommendation to shut the A&E and maternity units at the Queen Mary’s site and to shift staff instead to the remaining two sites has been endorsed by South London Healthcare’s chief executive Dr Chris Streather.

In a statement he said: “I have been very clear publicly in recent months of our real concerns about the potential risks to patient safety involved in running three emergency and obstetric maternity units as the onset of winter puts additional pressures on our services.”

The recommendation must now be considered by South London Healthcare’s board. Although the closure is described as “temporary” and related to winter pressures, no end date has been stated for the closure.
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Comments

  • Reading that it seems only right to close it until they get the required staff, The biggest question should be why cant the trust employ enough staff.

    In a statement, NHS London’s chief nurse Trish Morris-Thompson said: “We found that despite numerous efforts the trust had not been able to recruit enough middle and junior-grade A&E doctors and midwives. Instead, the trust has been relying on temporary clinical staff with no flexibility to call on extra staff to care for higher numbers of patients if needed. This is not sustainable and could potentially put patients at risk.”
  • Was i the only one who saw this and thought Southampton were facing a ground closure?
  • apparently its a load of ***** and just an excuse to try and close it
  • Big risk to take though if it is not a load of BS. Needs external review surely
  • the only review I need spending any time and QE AnE, vs QM AnE, the former resembling a third world disaster, the latter a well run model of excellence; and similarly the Maternity units.
  • edited September 2010
    I think because rumours of its closure were rife staff permanent staff weren't willing to go and work there. Very sad state of affairs to be honest.

    Pity all of you that have to come and use the shitty Queen Elizabeth. Mind you i have some horror stories about the Swanley ward at Queen Marys.
  • Agree with the Q and E description, i have never been near Qm and would nt know what it is like..


    They tried the same here and tried to close Chase Farm AE and maternity never good for its residents a closure of such needed departments


    how ever you must worry when you hear things like This is not sustainable and could potentially put patients at risk.”



    there was a quite succesful campaign to keep chase farm open but it only managed it by the skin of its teeth.
  • It begs the question "should they have got rid of Pardew after that big win"
  • This is an absolute joke, a couple of months back my dad who is 50ish woke in the night feeling very ill (it is terrible I cannot remember the exact symptoms but I was away). Called an ambulance, which took forever and when it finally arrived, rather than take him to Queen Mary'w which you can see from the back of where we live. It was either Queen Elizabeth or Farnbrough, now fortunatly he was ok but the difference in time journeys could be the difference between life and death. People who live close to QM now have to travel quite a way for an A&E and needless to say, we have all signed a petition at some point regarding this matter.
  • once again, a case of expediency over care for people. This is before the coalition impose the next stage of needless cuts in the name of efficiency and economics. I'd far sooner they close tax loopholes than close hospitals.
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  • the last people who matter are the people who actually use these services normally, and replacing efficient well run with the sh*te that is QE its an insult
  • Weird that the campaign to save it is being run by the Lib Dems rather than a local pressure group / friends of the hospital. It is just a political mud fight?
  • there was a very poor/unsucessful campaign during the election by an independent, doesn't really matter tho does it?
  • Apparently it is a temporry closure, according to Streeter, but I doubt that..........

    This has been rumoured for months, and frankly has more to do with the PP deal done to create the 'Woolwich hospital' financial position., which Last time I checked out had worse infection and complaints.

    Having had 2 relatives who died there I am not entirely surprissed!.

    During the election there had been a move to suspend this action about moving A&E, to knock out adverse political reaction one assumes.?

    Now, despite the so called 'review' this has happened.

    Now I am not going to say that QM's is hospital of the year, but from personnal experience I had an op in February and could not find fault with the cleanliness or the excellence of the staff.

    Every occassion I have used the hospital they have delivered, and despite waiting, which they have improved delived excellent medical attention.

    Believe me I would be the first to moan!, but the management/trust have done the best to ruin this hospital, which did have a problem with infection rates, but has improved.

    Just goes to show that if you leave the management/ board of trustees to be bloody accountants!, they cannot balance the books

    The over spend has little to do with the staff, and all to do with the Area Health authority, or Trust, looking for a fall guy, because it has to keep the Woolich hospital site open due to the PP contract is signed.

    Not surprissed that staff do not want to work there, hardly a fun place with closure looming, in what is a dificult job at the best of times.
  • Labour wanted to Close Chase Farm they are all at it all thinking about money over care.


    There is not 1 party that wouldnt make these ridiculous decisions
  • [cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]there was a very poor/unsucessful campaign during the election by an independent, doesn't really matter tho does it?

    Actually I think it does matter. Political parties rarely do anything for totally altruistic reasons.
  • i disagree as it was an existing issue/campaign, as long they do it effectively (unless that is your point)
  • [cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]i disagree as it was an existing issue/campaign, as long they do it effectively (unless that is your point)

    It kind of is. I'm not saying don't support it because it's run by the Lib Dems. I'm just saying as this is a campaign run by a political party so watch out that they might have reasons for doing it other than just keeping this hospital open, and it might not be a top priority for them when there are other things going on (like their party conference).

    For example by putting your name on this petition you are submitting your name to the Lib Dems and they own that list so could potentially use it in future. Also they are now in government so across the party they have lost the freedom to get involved that had when they were the third party.

    Just saying that its something worth noting.
  • There are actually some medical arguments around the viability of Queen Mary's A&E and maternity units, based around whether it is safe to operate them at the size they are. For example, whether the maternity can sensibly be fully staffed with consultants 24 hours a day and whether the consultants in A&E see sufficient examples of particular conditions to maintain their expertise.

    It's impossible to know the validity of those arguments, but I have heard them made quite forcibly by senior medical personnel. I also think the arguments about distances to other A&E's fail to take into account the level of expertise and equipment in ambulances these days and the vast distances that people have to travel for emergency care in rural areas.

    The number of hospitals providing these services in SE London/NWK is not a sensible use of deploying NHS resources. The big problem for QMS is that the other hospitals are PFI and therefore have to be paid for whether used or not. That's why the eventual outcome will always be the closure of these services at QMH, in my opinion, regardless of politics and whatever promises and campaigns go on in the meantime.

    The vast majority of people currently using A&E at QMS will continue to use the urgent care centre at QMS, 24 hours a day.

    I'm not a fan of PFI, but the money to rebuild the other hospitals had to come from somewhere. And the argument about what happens now isn't just about money.
  • I'm with Airman on this one. We've been through this upheaval in Canterbury and there was a storm of protest which ultimately did not change very much at all. The massive advances in technology in the last 20 years have not been cheap, and the level of expertise and skills now required by medical staff in both A&E and Maternity is staggering. To gain the necessary skills, you have to be in a department that already has both the equipment and expertise, together with sufficient numbers of patients to practice the skills, hence the tendency to develop and concentrate resources in a specific area.
    It is considered that about 60% of patients presenting to A&E can be dealt with locally, be it GP units or urgent care centres.

    I honestly would prefer to know that skilled paramedics are dealing with me whilst I am being taken to a specialised A&E, rather then be seen by someone in a nearby hospital that does not have the experience or equipment to effectively deal with me.

    It may well prove to be that some people die because of some delay in getting to an A&E. What we will never know however, is how many people have died because they were not treated in the best possible way despite arriving at hospital a bit quicker.
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  • As a former finance department employee at QMS, it comes as no surprise to me tbh. "Winter Pressures" have been quoted by the board for years over poor performance. I wont be repeating them on here but if you knew some of the stories that I could tell you, your blood would boil with rage. The three years I spent in the NHS were a real eye opener. However, I cant say a bad word about the Woodlands Unit at QMS. That was PFI funded originally though the former QMS NHS Trust but since budgetary control has been taken over by Oxleas NHS Trust and they've managed to create a well respected and well managed psychiatric unit, one of the best in the country.
  • PFI is a huge con on the tax payer. The actual result re cost/saving/benefits will take decades to work through, but its a huge hit on you and me.

    As for QM over the last 22 years i think i must have paid for a ward re the parking cost alone. Seen it go from a shitpit with no staff to loads of staff with no training to a very good hospital and now somewhere in between.Mum has been in QM for the last 8 weeks. They released her to early and within 3 hours she had to be re-admitted. Not sure what that says about the care, the process or their level of skill, but it wasnt good.
  • Sorry to hear about your mother Goonerhater, Hope she makes a swift and speedy recovery.

    As I posted on here previously, this has all to do with the PFI situation that clinical excellence, as others have mentioned.

    I agree it is no good having a hospital on your doorstep is near, if the medicalcare is poor and lacks expertise.

    All NHS hospitals should have a high degree of competance, and it is a national health service, so regional centres of excellence should be nearby, after all we are only in the London suburbs, not the obscure parts of the Western Isles..

    If you have a young child, and elderly relative, or do not drive, you may not be able to go to hospital at a night time, or say a bank holiday!.

    I think that a lot of people in A&E would not be there if GP's surgeries worked like worked poly clinics and you could go there at weekends and bank holiday's, and certain evenings.

    The GP's contract was badly managed by the last goverment, as Dr Lawrence Buckman stated on tv last week.

    Cost savings may well be needed, but to simply close a hospital beacause of financial critera, should not be the only reason!, which at heart is the main reason for this action at QM.
  • I agree that PFI is a major consideration and QMH is disadvantaged because of it, but there is a lot of exaggeration about importance of it being local. For example, in parts of Bexley borough, QEH and Darenth Valley are actually nearer than QMH. Why shouldn't people in Welling or Erith have an A&E, rather than Sidcup. Just because it's there. But I don't hear too many people lamenting the closure of the Brook or GDH.

    In any case, there's no proposal to close QMH as far as I know. I believe dialysis services have recently moved there as part of the planned reorganisation. Most people who currently previously attend A&E will continue to go to QMH - or wherever they prefer - because the service they need will continue there. Unless things have changed recently, it is only flashing blue light ambulances that will go elsewhere.

    It may well be that QEH offers inferior service to QMH, etc, but as with schools there is nothing to say that in five years time the reverse may not be true. What matters is the level of care and location is only a small part of the picture.
  • Totally agree about the level of care Airman, like yourself I want to support the NHS, although the resources are important, the quality of service is the crucial factor.

    Both my Father and grandfather received treatment in the Brooke, and it had a high reputation for surgery at the time. The GDH really goes to prove that 'modern hospitals' were not the main issue, despite it being the face of modern healthcare in the NHS not that long ago......( as used in Clockwork orange). The Aversion therapy carried out on Alex in the film, should be introduced to bankers when they take there bonuses, and there cash ploughed into the NHS!. Then perhaps we would not be in such a panic to cut financial help to hospitals that are trying to support local communities.
  • i love that people who argue in favour of closure obviously havent compared the facilities i mentioned... qe vs qm, ane and maternity, go look then decide, but hey let the well run one die a death, and the shite one take over, still this is a football forum after all
  • Had both my children at QE, and couldn't fault the maternity ward, staff, nor care I received; both times I also needed to go to theatre; again, couldn't fault the care I got in there or recovery. (As far a QM maternity goes i've only visited and even then that was a good number of years ago so cant comment or compare). Have used A&E at both QE & QM, and had the (mis)fortune of being admitted to QM as a consequence of one visit (lets face it admittance at any hospital is hardly a holiday). But again, all in all, I was treated pretty well and swiftly.

    If I had to choose between either A&E due to my own personal experience, I wouldn't have a problem using either. But what I would hope for is that the unit was appropriately staffed with qualified staff.
  • My daughter was nearly killed (in 2004) due to the incompetence of some of the staff & terrible overcrowing within the maternity unit at QE - thankfully the care she recieved in the specialist baby unit, (while on life support following the botched birth), was absolutely truly outstanding. Overall though, the NHS is a fantastic asset & one which thankfully Canadian healthcare is modelled upon to some extent. A few hundred miles south of here & over the border in the USA is a very different world.
  • Had both my children at QE, and couldn't fault the maternity ward, staff, nor care I received; both times I also needed to go to theatre; again, couldn't fault the care I got in there or recovery. (As far a QM maternity goes i've only visited and even then that was a good number of years ago so cant comment or compare). Have used A&E at both QE & QM, and had the (mis)fortune of being admitted to QM as a consequence of one visit (lets face it admittance at any hospital is hardly a holiday). But again, all in all, I was treated pretty well and swiftly.

    If I had to choose between either A&E due to my own personal experience, I wouldn't have a problem using either. But what I would hope for is that the unit was appropriately staffed with qualified staff.

    Good to hear that you had a positive experience of QE, as I previously stated " All NHS hospitals should have a high degree of competance, and it is a national health service, so regional centres of excellence should be nearby, after all we are only in the London suburbs, not the obscure parts of the Western Isles..

    Rather bizzarely I had to attend the maternity wards for a pre operative assessment in February this year, I did fear that my Gaul bladder was going to be induced due to cut backs, or perhaps I was pregnant! . I am glad to report that I have not added to my family, and was dealt with both professionally and really could not fault the care that I received. As I mentioned to my wife, "you woman do make a terrible fuss about maternity wards!." Us men just get on with it ladies!...... ( only joking)
  • Had my first kid born at the QM and the second at the QE. Both were kept in for a week and the noticeable difference between the two was the cleanliness. The QE was cleaned a regular basis whilst the room my wife had at the QM was cleaned once in a week!
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