According to a couple of Tranmere supporters, they played well & were pleased with a draw as we are better than Bournemouth & will end up in the play offs.
PS Their manager & supporters were saying we were a very physical side (not dirty, not complaining)
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]every game this season bar orient there have been complaints about the ref almost its as if excuses are being made for poor results and performances and i am getting fed up hearing it. they may have been overly physical but it is tranmere they have been a physical side for years. we are in the 3rd division so the refs are going to be shite other teams seem to be overcoming it so should we
We were total rubbish, appalling, garbage, worse than a bunch of blind badgers in a bag, we are going down fact!!!
The worry is not just that we are poor but that the symptoms have been the same for 2 seasons and the only man who does not see it is the man in the V-neck sweater. The gel argument does'nt stack up as it is the same 4-2-4 problem and same 4-2-4 system as last season but we KEEP DOING THE SAME 4-2-4 THING EVERY WEEK.
Even if it worked (which it does'nt) the opposition see it coming a mile off. They just cut off supply to Waggy and Reidy and overun midfield and we are stuffed. Reduced to launching 60 yard punts into nowhere. It might be Div 3 but (most) coaches are'nt stupid .
If you rely on a two man midfield you need two pretty exceptional players (Scott P/Jensen) but Curbs rarely played them with no help from the flanks. We played our best football last season when Racon and Semedo were supported by Bailey at LMid even though he was playing out of position.
Can we not just try a different system? Three shots on target in 90 minutes for the third game running says it all....
[cite aria-level=0 aria-posinset=0 aria-setsize=0]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]every game this season bar orient there have been complaints about the ref almost its as if excuses are being made for poor results and performances and i am getting fed up hearing it. they may have been overly physical but it is tranmere they have been a physical side for years. we are in the 3rd division so the refs are going to be shite other teams seem to be overcoming it so should we
We were total rubbish, appalling, garbage, worse than a bunch of blind badgers in a bag, we are going down fact!!!
WERE ALREADY DOWN!!!!!!!!!!
(Happy now?)
i havent even mentioned that mascott so calm down,
my issue above is about the fans looking for every excuse other than we are cack right now,
come over and watch it you will be amazed at how shite we are.
if anyone on here thinks that a point against tranmere is a good one then they need their heads examined.
look at the shots on taget stat and then look at the moans you hear on here week in week out ref this ref that
people need to open their eyes and realise it is no ones fault than the team and the mgmt that we are playing so poorly and they all need to man up and get on with it or this season as you rightly point out will be over before it has begun.
to win games you need to create chances otherwise like yesterday benson got one chance missed and it is magnified.
the system is wrong the approach to the game is wrong yet again we set out to not get beat where as we should be setting out to win against teams like tranmere.
it is very easy for you to pass judgement without actually watching it
All I heard on the commnetary was how ridiculous the decisions were, the commentators must have mentioned it 20 times in 90 minutes... and its been confirmed by the people that went to the game..
we do sound devoid of ideas, but thats what you get, the 2 strikers we bought seem lacking in confidence and cant find the net, this is the big problem, keep waggy playing I say..
One point I will raise is that if we had been winning, IE 3 wins on the spin for exampe, and then came to tranmere and drew, then that is a bad result IMHO..
But to stop a 2 away game losing streak and withstand 15 mins of tremendous pressure with a bent ref and a c*** of team kicking everything that moves... I think isnt bad...
Its going to be mid to top half of the table all season IMHO and then if we do string some wins together we will get playoffs, and I for one would be pleased wtih that... we cant expect any more as we are close to administration have sold all our best players for the 4 yr in a row and have seen 20 payers leave over the summer...
I'm not one to normally critiicise refs but I was at the game and once again I'll say it was the worst reffing I've ever seen. But why ....
Tranmere conned the ref, everytime we tackled their players they went down like a sack of potaoes rithing around in agony, got the free kick, and mostly ran off uninjured. At one point Waggy (I think) was through their defence and a Tranmere played got hold of the back of his shirt and hauled him back - I could see that from behind the other goal and the ref didn't even stop the game. I agree he was also bad for Tranmere as at one corner Semedo had their striker in a body clasp - should have been a pen. But through the game the ref just didn't get hold of the play acting of the Tranmere players.
I agree NLA that it is the same ref for both teams but due to the way Tranmere played our players got the worst of it. I also agree with you that the current team is just not upto the standard required for promotion, I've seen them at Huddersfield & Tranmere and Charlton were similar in both games, the only difference being that Huddersfield were better.
Did you listen on player yesterday nla? I cant help but be satisfied with a point so will go an get head examined later. Bit rich telling mascot to calm down!
Right im off to hip hip hooray that we are in this league...
The players in this squad are good enough to be doing better.
Tranmere away was not only a good opportunity to stop 2 away defeats it was an opportunity to build on the stolen 3 points from last week.
I expect the ref to be bad otherwise they wouldn't be here. The fella on charlton player said the pen at exeter was wrong and it wasn't
If the refs were disalowing goals and denying us goalscoring opportunities then I could except the ref excuse.
Next week we play the worst team in the league and we could not have asked for a better 2 teams to have after notts county.
We should have gone for 3 points yesterday but any team that has 3 shots on target are never going to deserve to or even have a real chance of winning unless you have a superstar striker playing who would score with atleast 2 of them chances.
It really is not good enough.
1 point from 3 away games that Includes tranmere and exeter is not any sort of form. That indicates we are a team that is looking to get out of this league and god knows what will happen to our club if we don't get out this season
Yes b I listened to the game in the car on 774mw and yes they said the decisions were bad.
But only 1 decision sounded like it denied us a goal scoring opportunity and then as mentioned above semedo should have given away a pen.
We and the players need to over come this. Martin could have got sent off against notts county seeing as he had already been booked when he continued to moan at the lino then ref .
The ref did really well calling semedo over to tell him to calm down.
We should be playing these teams off the park but we are not and the one person who is not to blame for that is the ref
the other suicidal steve doesnt seem to think we will be anywhere near. We all know an pray that the team are going to find some form an hopefully soon. In the meantime we are still up there an not letting any gaps open.
I hope to god people dont start booing this saturday. Cos that will be helpful. Love from an apologist.
i dont want to hear booing B but we will nailed on if we are not winning at half time against the daggers.
we have potential match winners in out team
martin, reid, waggstaff and Benson but all 4 need to see the ball in the correct areas
we have a real good base of centre halves in daily and doherty.
matt fry is good enough also
semedo is a great holding midfielder
7 players in our team who would all walk into other teams in this league
Benson will score if we create chances via crosses or slide passes i am sure of that my fear was if we play how we are now he will look really toilet and it would not just be his fault.
i think that we should be top 4 atleast this season no reason we shouldnt when our players are playing to their strengths now i dont know why they are not thats why i am not slating parkinson he may well be asking them too and coaching them too and they just cant do it yet,
we will see for sure next week because daggers are really poor but they will put 10 behind the ball and counter punch us so it will be important we break them down early so that they open up a bit more than they wish too
but i bet we stick with the 4 4 2 and that will be wrong unless this week we are really focusing on getting the ball wide and using the 2 wingers properly
we are so narrow and predictable that it is really worrying
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]the system is wrong the approach to the game is wrong yet again we set out to not get beat where as we should be setting out to win against teams like tranmere.
Don't see how the system is wrong. We're playing a basic 4-4-2 in most games. We played that most of last season and made the play-offs, as far as I know Norwich, Leeds, Millwall and the other teams around us also played 4-4-2, maybe 4-5-1 in some games like us. No reason why we can't be successful with 4-4-2.
Something we are missing I think is what Burton and Sam offered last season. About 20 assists between them. Abbott is probably the only similar player to Burton who might offer that, but I haven't seen it often enough from him. People will disagree about Sam, but he linked up with Richardson well and put in good crosses. Our three wide players all offer some of the things Sam lacked, but with the CMs we have we need the wingers and full backs to step up and create more than they are. I can't see at the moment who is going to get around 10 assists. Last year Sam and Burton could, and Shelvey and Basey got 5 each without being regulars in the team.
Sounded like we put in a few crosses yesterday but it's still not enough. Like NLA said, Benson misses one chance and as it's pretty much all he gets all game, it's magnified. Every goalscorer in this league no doubt has plenty of shots, not striker can score regularly from 1 or 2 chances every game. Most shots in the league last season were from Lambert, Beckford, Holt and Morison. That shots table looks very similar the list of top goalscorers.
We are 7th from bottom for number of shots this season (by club). Considering that we're doing well to be as high as we are. I'm fine with how we are defensively, we make mistakes but so does everyone else. That shots table sums up our main problem.
As a comparison last season we had the 4th most shots in the league.
Scoham the only reason I think the system is wrong is because 442 does not allow reid, waggy, Martin to play together unless you play Martin upfront.
We need to play all 3 regularly and in their right positions to get the best from them.
Leeds and narwich both created from wide to good strikers holt and Beckford or played nice slide ball passes from the cm position we don't Do that so either the system is wrong or we genuinely don't have the players to fix it.
I hope the system is wrong not the players because it is the only thing we can change the players we have are here to stay
I am holding onto the crumbs of Youga returning and Jackson being able to offer more in midfield as a left half or centre midfield.
The lack of consistent goal scoring opportunities for moderate strikers is a concern. Like has been mentioned, Benson gets a decent chance, it puts more pressure on him as he knows he has to tuck it away as he doesn't know when the next one will turn up. Then on top of that if the crowd gets restless the pressure increases further.
It has been the main problem at Charlton since Darren Bent left.
I think NLA has something about finding the formation that fits the right positions for our best players to play in.
Edit: In reply to NLA. I know what you mean but 3-5-2 isn't playing Reid and Wagstaff in their right positions either. Reid hasn't got the fitness to play as a wing back, and even if Wagstaff has, it's a lot of work for him.
They should still be able to get crosses into the box and passes in and around from out wide without all 3 playing at the same time.
I also think you're seriously underestimating the rest of the league when you say 7 of our team would walk into every other team in the league. Who exactly do you mean? We have some good players but not a level above what every other team has. Other teams have talented wingers, solid centre backs/defensive midfielders etc, we just don't watch them regularly. The League One dream 11 would not be made up of 7 Charlton players, there are plenty of equally good players and in some cases better players.
[cite]Posted By: JT[/cite][ThreadKiller]7 games in, seasons over already. Parky is a wanker and i hate all our players. In fact i hate Charlton Athletic. Why do i even follow them? [/ThreadKiller]
Another well-reasoned argument then. How exactly is the season over when we're three points off top?
Anyway, despite truly shocking ref, disappointing how we allowed ourselves to get dragged down to long-ball hoofing after a promising start when we threatened to over-run them. As so often though, we didn't kill it off and allowed them gradually to get a foot-hold before taking advantage of the tool with the whistle. A couple of curious decisions from Parky - by withdrawing Martin & Anyinsah he probably took off the 2 players hurting them the most, and not sure why Llera came in for Fry, but then we don't know the full story from training etc. With Anyinsah's pace troubling them down the centre we posed the kind of threat that's been missing but another option would surely be to try Martin in behind where we lack so much creativity.
Semedo, Dailly and Doherty I can understand, though I'm sure there are clubs who are happy with the players they have in those positions.
Can't see how Martin, Reid and Waggy are the best wingers in the league though? Good yes but there are wingers just as good and some better, setting up and/or scoring goals in the teams near the top. Why are Huddersfield and Peterborough scoring plenty of goals? Not just because they have good strikers, but they have players that create loads of chances for them (or some create chances for themselves). They then have plenty of shots.
If Martin had instead joined someone like MK Dons on loan, none of us would have really noticed. Instead we'd be talking about the player we got instead being one of the best in the league. It's not like in the Prem when we know a lot more about players at other clubs. I know I couldn't name all of Huddersfields starting 11, but that doesn't mean our good players would walk into their team.
Would be interesting to see 3-5-2, just not convinced myself. Probably would help Martin having 2 strikers in front and 2 CMs behind, but I'd just worry about us being caught out defensively. Do think we should be capable of creating chances while playing 4-4-2, we're just not doing it often enough at the moment.
Can't see how Martin, Reid and Waggy are the best wingers in the league though?......Schoham
Well lets judge this at the end of the season shall we guys!. Waggy has to be on the pitch first of all to be effective, let alone score!..... On the games I have seen Reid is a threat, that is why most teams have 2 players marking him and trying to cut off his supply to our forwards. It amazed me that Waggy did not play last week, and looks a n effective if not a threat to me in this league!. Martin although a little flash at times looks a decent player, so at present I would say that the ssues are not with them , but with Benson and Abbott!, and at present neither of these look like the best players in the league, but early days, let us see.......
Surely the simple truth is that there are 24 poor teams playing poor football in a poor division? Which is why there's no need to panic because we aren't playing well. It's not pretty - and what I've seen hasn't been particularly enjoyable. But we're serving up exactly the level of football you would realisitcally expect in this division - as are the other 23 teams.
I remember Curbs telling us we were criticising the players unfairly because we had all been spoilt watching Man U/Chelsea/Inter/Real etc on Sky every weekend - and that was when we were still in the premiership!
We're three points off the top and five points off the drop. Who knows where we will end up? It will all change around over the season, and who would bet that come the end of the season Rochdale, currently in a play-off spot, and Southampton currently in a relegation spot, won't have changed places?
The teams that go up will be those who show the best spirit, not the best quality. Because there isnt any quality in the entire division, as far as I can see...
Comments
PS Their manager & supporters were saying we were a very physical side (not dirty, not complaining)
http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/445835344?
We were total rubbish, appalling, garbage, worse than a bunch of blind badgers in a bag, we are going down fact!!!
WERE ALREADY DOWN!!!!!!!!!!
(Happy now?)
Even if it worked (which it does'nt) the opposition see it coming a mile off. They just cut off supply to Waggy and Reidy and overun midfield and we are stuffed. Reduced to launching 60 yard punts into nowhere. It might be Div 3 but (most) coaches are'nt stupid .
If you rely on a two man midfield you need two pretty exceptional players (Scott P/Jensen) but Curbs rarely played them with no help from the flanks. We played our best football last season when Racon and Semedo were supported by Bailey at LMid even though he was playing out of position.
Can we not just try a different system? Three shots on target in 90 minutes for the third game running says it all....
i havent even mentioned that mascott so calm down,
my issue above is about the fans looking for every excuse other than we are cack right now,
come over and watch it you will be amazed at how shite we are.
if anyone on here thinks that a point against tranmere is a good one then they need their heads examined.
look at the shots on taget stat and then look at the moans you hear on here week in week out ref this ref that
people need to open their eyes and realise it is no ones fault than the team and the mgmt that we are playing so poorly and they all need to man up and get on with it or this season as you rightly point out will be over before it has begun.
to win games you need to create chances otherwise like yesterday benson got one chance missed and it is magnified.
the system is wrong the approach to the game is wrong yet again we set out to not get beat where as we should be setting out to win against teams like tranmere.
it is very easy for you to pass judgement without actually watching it
All I heard on the commnetary was how ridiculous the decisions were, the commentators must have mentioned it 20 times in 90 minutes... and its been confirmed by the people that went to the game..
we do sound devoid of ideas, but thats what you get, the 2 strikers we bought seem lacking in confidence and cant find the net, this is the big problem, keep waggy playing I say..
One point I will raise is that if we had been winning, IE 3 wins on the spin for exampe, and then came to tranmere and drew, then that is a bad result IMHO..
But to stop a 2 away game losing streak and withstand 15 mins of tremendous pressure with a bent ref and a c*** of team kicking everything that moves... I think isnt bad...
Its going to be mid to top half of the table all season IMHO and then if we do string some wins together we will get playoffs, and I for one would be pleased wtih that... we cant expect any more as we are close to administration have sold all our best players for the 4 yr in a row and have seen 20 payers leave over the summer...
Tranmere conned the ref, everytime we tackled their players they went down like a sack of potaoes rithing around in agony, got the free kick, and mostly ran off uninjured. At one point Waggy (I think) was through their defence and a Tranmere played got hold of the back of his shirt and hauled him back - I could see that from behind the other goal and the ref didn't even stop the game. I agree he was also bad for Tranmere as at one corner Semedo had their striker in a body clasp - should have been a pen. But through the game the ref just didn't get hold of the play acting of the Tranmere players.
I agree NLA that it is the same ref for both teams but due to the way Tranmere played our players got the worst of it. I also agree with you that the current team is just not upto the standard required for promotion, I've seen them at Huddersfield & Tranmere and Charlton were similar in both games, the only difference being that Huddersfield were better.
Right im off to hip hip hooray that we are in this league...
Tranmere away was not only a good opportunity to stop 2 away defeats it was an opportunity to build on the stolen 3 points from last week.
I expect the ref to be bad otherwise they wouldn't be here. The fella on charlton player said the pen at exeter was wrong and it wasn't
If the refs were disalowing goals and denying us goalscoring opportunities then I could except the ref excuse.
Next week we play the worst team in the league and we could not have asked for a better 2 teams to have after notts county.
We should have gone for 3 points yesterday but any team that has 3 shots on target are never going to deserve to or even have a real chance of winning unless you have a superstar striker playing who would score with atleast 2 of them chances.
It really is not good enough.
1 point from 3 away games that Includes tranmere and exeter is not any sort of form. That indicates we are a team that is looking to get out of this league and god knows what will happen to our club if we don't get out this season
But only 1 decision sounded like it denied us a goal scoring opportunity and then as mentioned above semedo should have given away a pen.
We and the players need to over come this. Martin could have got sent off against notts county seeing as he had already been booked when he continued to moan at the lino then ref .
The ref did really well calling semedo over to tell him to calm down.
We should be playing these teams off the park but we are not and the one person who is not to blame for that is the ref
and am confident we will be somewhere in that mix come the end of the season...
(that is IF our goalscorers start scoring goals)
I hope to god people dont start booing this saturday. Cos that will be helpful. Love from an apologist.
Its been very ugly, but when you strikers cant get going thats what it has to be.....
The big positive is Wagstaff....
Benson, Abbot, Martin, and Reid are all due a goal..
maybe just maybe Saturday will be the day...
I would take another AWFUL performance and a win right now.,...
we have potential match winners in out team
martin, reid, waggstaff and Benson but all 4 need to see the ball in the correct areas
we have a real good base of centre halves in daily and doherty.
matt fry is good enough also
semedo is a great holding midfielder
7 players in our team who would all walk into other teams in this league
Benson will score if we create chances via crosses or slide passes i am sure of that my fear was if we play how we are now he will look really toilet and it would not just be his fault.
i think that we should be top 4 atleast this season no reason we shouldnt when our players are playing to their strengths now i dont know why they are not thats why i am not slating parkinson he may well be asking them too and coaching them too and they just cant do it yet,
we will see for sure next week because daggers are really poor but they will put 10 behind the ball and counter punch us so it will be important we break them down early so that they open up a bit more than they wish too
but i bet we stick with the 4 4 2 and that will be wrong unless this week we are really focusing on getting the ball wide and using the 2 wingers properly
we are so narrow and predictable that it is really worrying
and there in lies my frustration we need to accomodate waggs, reid, martin build the team around those 3 but we are not
Something we are missing I think is what Burton and Sam offered last season. About 20 assists between them. Abbott is probably the only similar player to Burton who might offer that, but I haven't seen it often enough from him. People will disagree about Sam, but he linked up with Richardson well and put in good crosses. Our three wide players all offer some of the things Sam lacked, but with the CMs we have we need the wingers and full backs to step up and create more than they are. I can't see at the moment who is going to get around 10 assists. Last year Sam and Burton could, and Shelvey and Basey got 5 each without being regulars in the team.
Sounded like we put in a few crosses yesterday but it's still not enough. Like NLA said, Benson misses one chance and as it's pretty much all he gets all game, it's magnified. Every goalscorer in this league no doubt has plenty of shots, not striker can score regularly from 1 or 2 chances every game. Most shots in the league last season were from Lambert, Beckford, Holt and Morison. That shots table looks very similar the list of top goalscorers.
We are 7th from bottom for number of shots this season (by club). Considering that we're doing well to be as high as we are. I'm fine with how we are defensively, we make mistakes but so does everyone else. That shots table sums up our main problem.
As a comparison last season we had the 4th most shots in the league.
We need to play all 3 regularly and in their right positions to get the best from them.
Leeds and narwich both created from wide to good strikers holt and Beckford or played nice slide ball passes from the cm position we don't Do that so either the system is wrong or we genuinely don't have the players to fix it.
I hope the system is wrong not the players because it is the only thing we can change the players we have are here to stay
I am holding onto the crumbs of Youga returning and Jackson being able to offer more in midfield as a left half or centre midfield.
The lack of consistent goal scoring opportunities for moderate strikers is a concern. Like has been mentioned, Benson gets a decent chance, it puts more pressure on him as he knows he has to tuck it away as he doesn't know when the next one will turn up. Then on top of that if the crowd gets restless the pressure increases further.
It has been the main problem at Charlton since Darren Bent left.
I think NLA has something about finding the formation that fits the right positions for our best players to play in.
They should still be able to get crosses into the box and passes in and around from out wide without all 3 playing at the same time.
I also think you're seriously underestimating the rest of the league when you say 7 of our team would walk into every other team in the league. Who exactly do you mean? We have some good players but not a level above what every other team has. Other teams have talented wingers, solid centre backs/defensive midfielders etc, we just don't watch them regularly. The League One dream 11 would not be made up of 7 Charlton players, there are plenty of equally good players and in some cases better players.
Another well-reasoned argument then. How exactly is the season over when we're three points off top?
Anyway, despite truly shocking ref, disappointing how we allowed ourselves to get dragged down to long-ball hoofing after a promising start when we threatened to over-run them. As so often though, we didn't kill it off and allowed them gradually to get a foot-hold before taking advantage of the tool with the whistle. A couple of curious decisions from Parky - by withdrawing Martin & Anyinsah he probably took off the 2 players hurting them the most, and not sure why Llera came in for Fry, but then we don't know the full story from training etc. With Anyinsah's pace troubling them down the centre we posed the kind of threat that's been missing but another option would surely be to try Martin in behind where we lack so much creativity.
I think 3.5.2. Is the only way to accommodate the attacking threat they offer.
I really do understand the defenseive concerns though.
But if we could get fortune daily,fry I think we would have speed and experience.
Once all are fit I'd go with:
Elliott
Solly---Dailly - - Fortune --- Youga
Martin
Semedo
Racon
Wagstaff--- Benson---Reid
Can't see how Martin, Reid and Waggy are the best wingers in the league though? Good yes but there are wingers just as good and some better, setting up and/or scoring goals in the teams near the top. Why are Huddersfield and Peterborough scoring plenty of goals? Not just because they have good strikers, but they have players that create loads of chances for them (or some create chances for themselves). They then have plenty of shots.
If Martin had instead joined someone like MK Dons on loan, none of us would have really noticed. Instead we'd be talking about the player we got instead being one of the best in the league. It's not like in the Prem when we know a lot more about players at other clubs. I know I couldn't name all of Huddersfields starting 11, but that doesn't mean our good players would walk into their team.
Would be interesting to see 3-5-2, just not convinced myself. Probably would help Martin having 2 strikers in front and 2 CMs behind, but I'd just worry about us being caught out defensively. Do think we should be capable of creating chances while playing 4-4-2, we're just not doing it often enough at the moment.
Well lets judge this at the end of the season shall we guys!. Waggy has to be on the pitch first of all to be effective, let alone score!..... On the games I have seen Reid is a threat, that is why most teams have 2 players marking him and trying to cut off his supply to our forwards. It amazed me that Waggy did not play last week, and looks a n effective if not a threat to me in this league!. Martin although a little flash at times looks a decent player, so at present I would say that the ssues are not with them , but with Benson and Abbott!, and at present neither of these look like the best players in the league, but early days, let us see.......
I remember Curbs telling us we were criticising the players unfairly because we had all been spoilt watching Man U/Chelsea/Inter/Real etc on Sky every weekend - and that was when we were still in the premiership!
We're three points off the top and five points off the drop. Who knows where we will end up? It will all change around over the season, and who would bet that come the end of the season Rochdale, currently in a play-off spot, and Southampton currently in a relegation spot, won't have changed places?
The teams that go up will be those who show the best spirit, not the best quality. Because there isnt any quality in the entire division, as far as I can see...