Martin must go into central midfield

Bexley Dan

Given the squad we have, i think Martin has to go into central midfield. I'd like to see:

Elliot

Francis Dailly Fry Jackson

Reid Martin Semedo Wagstaff

Forwards - really at a loss but think i'd start the two who came on on Saturday next. Certainly for the next home game we cannot start with any combination of Racon, Semedo and Macormack in midfield - not enough footballing ability.

dabos

I think whoever played alongside him would get overrun if he played centre midfield as he tends to drift around positionally. That's ok for a winger or forward, but you can't have your centre midfielders going walkabout. In a diamond it might work, but think we'd have to play 5 in midfield in he was to be played in the centre.

Bexley Dan

i think it's a risk worth taking. He's got a good engine and will get back and i'm sure he'll play with more discipline if he was in there. Also, Wagstaff can tuck in if he does wander. Basically, the footballing ability of our squad is poor and if we can get Reid, Wagstaff and Martin all on the pitch at the same time, particualrly for home games, it will help.

bibble

This...

Elliot

Solly Dailly (or Doc) Fry Jackson

Reid Racon Semedo Wagstaff

Martin (free role in the hole)

Akpo

harveys_gardener

MacCormack and Racon are the latest in a long list of centre-midfields written off by others as being ineffective. The forwards, midfield and defence should be connected by an invisible piece of string, where they move up and down together thus ensuring nobody in possession is isolated. Alas ours are connected by an invisible piece of elastic, which accounts for the comments “we have no shape”. It makes it hard to pick out a short pass and leads to the inevitable hoof upfield.

razil

Fry was solid enough except for the Pen, but our best pairing must be Daily and Doc unless we are going to push Semedo back and keep mcormack and a converted Martin in the middle - it could be worth trying

nth_london_addick

3 at the back

5 in Midfield (matin playing in front of Semedo and Racon in a free role)

2 up front


you can not put Martin in CM with semedo Martin would go missing defensivley and we would be exposed.

if you played Fortune Daily Fry you have a bit more speed in the back 3

you get Reid and Waggy to be disciplined in there roles as wing backs

you play 2 up front


Try it against MK in the JPT i bet it would work and we would have no pressure on the result

Karim Bagheri

A la Spain...



Elliot
Francis Docherty Dailly Jackson
McCormack Semedo
Wagstaff Martin Reid
Abbott?

Bexley Dan

Martin drifts a lot because he goes looking for the ball. In central midfield he is in the best position to see a lot of the ball and part of a good central midfielders job is to break into ther areas of the pitch and therefore not get stuck, as has been a problem with England for instance, with very rigid banks of 4 etc. I see that he could possibly be a bit like a Lee Bowyer type of player who can get ahead of the forwards. Have any of our midfield players done that so far this season? They haven't and things become very predictable and easy to mark, hence, in my opinion, the reason we don't create chances.

Harveys Trainer

[cite]Posted By: harveys gardener[/cite]MacCormack and Racon are the latest in a long list of centre-midfields written off by others as being ineffective. The forwards, midfield and defence should be connected by an invisible piece of string, where they move up and down together thus ensuring nobody in possession is isolated. Alas ours are connected by an invisible piece of elastic, which accounts for the comments “we have no shape”. It makes it hard to pick out a short pass and leads to the inevitable hoof upfield.

For me this is the key difference between watching a prem team and watching us. If you watch the prem on TV you can pause the action and at almost any given moment you can trace the 4-4 in their formation.
Pause our games and it looks more like playground football with 10 men all in a circle formation around the ball.

Scoham

[cite]Posted By: dabos[/cite]I think whoever played alongside him would get overrun if he played centre midfield as he tends to drift around positionally. That's ok for a winger or forward, but you can't have your centre midfielders going walkabout. In a diamond it might work, but think we'd have to play 5 in midfield in he was to be played in the centre.

Agree with dabos. It's an option maybe in certain games, or when we need to attack towards the end of games, but I think he'd probably end up drifting around too much. Not sure we should be going into an away game on Saturday and trying something like that from the start.

Looks a bit like the sort of midfield Pardew played after we came down, Thomas Ambrose Semedo Sam, very attacking and not solid enough. Against a 5 man midfield or powerful side I think it might struggle a bit. Racon can at least hold his position, works well with Semedo and adds something a bit different than McCormack.

MuttleyCAFC

Actually - I do think 3 at the back and 5 in midfield would work well at the Valley (in this division) although not away. Problem is, it's a bit too late to change systems- needed to be tried pre-season.

The Red Robin

Not right in the middle in a flat midfield, but I agree he should be a central role as he has so much more to give the team. With everyone fit I would play a 4-2-3-1:

Elliott

Solly
Dailly
Doc
Youga

Racon
Semedo

Wagstaff
Martin
Reid

Abbott

grumpyaddick

Spot on ref. string, elastic and playgrounds.

When our full backs have the ball the nearest pass forward is 60 yards away.

But can we please not include the Abbott and Costello (Benson) Show in any fantasy line ups. Comedy it may be but football it is not and never will be..

Martin is the only player who makes things happen and should have a free role to do so (as Shelkey should have done last season). If that fails, bring on Tuna.

nth_london_addick

Lee Martin can not be like Bowyer Martin is creative and tricky and could find the pass but he would need to do the dirty bit in CM and he couldnt do it.

He needs a free role safe in knowledge taht when it does not work he has 2 bbehind him to help sort out the problem.

with 3 at the back and 5 in midfield the only 2 that you would need to work on is Reid and Waggy both quick enough to help back and with Forts Daily Fry you have height speed experience and strength

Bexley Dan

With all due respect to those adamant that Martin could not do the dirty bit - Claus Jenson very successfully played in a 442 formation for us in the premier league and i don't think he ever put a tackle in. He wouyld however get involved in play all over the pitch. In anticipation, I don't buy into the fact that the Premier league is less physical. The players in there are as physical as you get so if it can be done there, it can be done in league 1.

Swisdom

Martin would be effective behind strikers and Semedo behind him would work well. Provided the wingers were prepared to get back and cover we could have wing backs too so there is variety in the attacks and the full backs get dragged about a bit.

He certainly has the energy to be a menace if playing "in the hole" but I'm not entirely sure he'd be much use in a flat 442

nth_london_addick

Jenson was playing with who alongside him??


We are in a dirty cloggers league far to physical for Jenson let alone martin

dabos

[cite]Posted By: Bexley Dan[/cite]Martin drifts a lot because he goes looking for the ball. In central midfield he is in the best position to see a lot of the ball and part of a good central midfielders job is to break into ther areas of the pitch and therefore not get stuck, as has been a problem with England for instance, with very rigid banks of 4 etc. I see that he could possibly be a bit like a Lee Bowyer type of player who can get ahead of the forwards. Have any of our midfield players done that so far this season? They haven't and things become very predictable and easy to mark, hence, in my opinion, the reason we don't create chances.

The problem with 4-4-2 for England at international level is that we ask Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney and co to play in positions they're often unfamiliar with a club level. Gerrard excels off the front man and likes to drift around, Lampard is better alongside 2 other centre midfielders, yet we don't ask them to play like that for England. A majority of other international sides have moved on and don't play 4-4-2 yet we continue to persevere with it because apparently it 'plays to our strengths', but that couldn't be further from the truth.

Similarly, I believe asking Martin to play in the middle of a 4-4-2 would not be playing to his strengths, and would be a bit kamikaze unless we're chasing the game.

dabos

[cite]Posted By: Bexley Dan[/cite]With all due respect to those adamant that Martin could not do the dirty bit - Claus Jenson very successfully played in a 442 formation for us in the premier league and i don't think he ever put a tackle in. He wouyld however get involved in play all over the pitch. In anticipation, I don't buy into the fact that the Premier league is less physical. The players in there are as physical as you get so if it can be done there, it can be done in league 1.

True, but at that time we always had strikers who were very good at helping to defend. Euell could drop back into midfield and Bartlett was excellent at helping out the defence. It was when we started getting wasters like Marcus Bent and JFH up front that we couldn't get away with having players who didn't tackle in midfield.

And as NLA says we had a certain Scottie Parker playing in midfield who was one of the best players in the league.

redman

Has martin ever played CM in a 442 - prob not I suspect sometimes it work really well and other times expose us badly partic if we had 2 wingers

Bexley Dan

It will be interesting to see what Parky does but it would seem that Saturdays front six at least is what he had in mind when signing all the players and certainly it didn't work. Maybe it will in time but i can't see it. Maybe we should play 5 in midfield with Martin in the hole but isn't that what we did at the start of the season and we couldn't create chances then either.

Paddy7

Thought maybe Martin could've moved inside before we scored on Saturday, with Abbott / Benson making way for Waggy to go right. It would appear to be one way to get Waggy, Reid, & Martin all attacking at the same time, though at the expense of one out-&-out striker. That said, my plan wouldn't have brought on a certain match-winning goal-scorer so what do I know?

redman

Wow - somebody almost saying parky's subs won us the game!

harveys_gardener

I think the diamond midfield with Martin at the head would only work if you had Youga back as an attacking full-back and Francis gaining the confidence to do the same. This would mean the wingers need to tuck in, partially negating their effectiveness, so you'd swop them to their wrong side and encourage them to have shots, or play both Racon & McCormack to cover the full backs. Never seen Parky try this so don't hold your breath. Upfront, regardless of the formation we play we need one player who likes to get the ball with his back to goal and one who prefers facing goal, one of Benson/Abbott/Martin and one of Anyinsah/Sodje/Waggy. It's a bit like the centre-back dichotomy.