we lost far in far worse circumstances last season & still made the play-offs, as long as lessons are learned from these results I see no reason to panic yet - as someone said Millwall didn't register their first away league win last season until mid-October & their next 3 points away from home until the end of January!!!!
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]In answer to paul sturgess I went to 8 away games last year but with 3 young children I find it hard to justify disappearing from my family for the best part of a day for away trips
In years gone by I went to 90% of away games for about 10 seasons but obviously everyones personal circumstances change
I just can't see how our away numbers are so numerically different to other similar sized clubs
Anyway our home numbers are fairly decent and let's hope we can hold on to them.....
Best keep this about after match views tho, so come on those that went fill us with some hope but don't lie !!
i agree re: the similar sized clubs thing. imo certainly when we were in the prem we should have been approaching similar support to west ham - we have the whole of greenwich and bexley which should be pretty much charlton only and them two boroughs have a populatioon of more than 400k, which is far far more than the population of southampton for example, and then when you add on all of kent and bromley etc... yet our support is terrible. i guess it is competing with all the other london clubs and hence a large proportion of what should be our support follow spurs or arsenal but still find it amazing how bad our away support is especially when, as you say, our home attendances seem to be just about holding up to a reasonable level even allowing for the exaggeration of season tickets etc
[cite] To be honest, I don't think your clumsy irony really helps take the debate forward, does it?
unfortunately there is a lot of clumsy irony at play on this board, it is often used to preemptively belittle people who may wish to express a differing or non-party line view.........I won't name the worst offender but it can be very grating
Not an over-reaction to one poor result but I don't think we are good enough to go up. With the squad we have at the moment we will not be in the auromatic slots and will be very lucky to reach the play-offs. A handful of decent signings could change that dramatically but it looks too late now for this window.
Heres hoping as usual that we get at least 2 in before the window shuts and we mange to stay in touch until the next window and get the bodies in then to make a final push. As someone said earlier, Millwall made a bad start to last season but went on a late run to get promotion, with the right signings we could too.
[cite aria-level=0 aria-posinset=0 aria-setsize=0]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]In answer to paul sturgess I went to 8 away games last year but with 3 young children I find it hard to justify disappearing from my family for the best part of a day for away trips
In years gone by I went to 90% of away games for about 10 seasons but obviously everyones personal circumstances change
I just can't see how our away numbers are so numerically different to other similar sized clubs
Anyway our home numbers are fairly decent and let's hope we can hold on to them.....
Best keep this about after match views tho, so come on those that went fill us with some hope but don't lie !!
i agree re: the similar sized clubs thing. imo certainly when we were in the prem we should have been approaching similar support to west ham - we have the whole of greenwich and bexley which should be pretty much charlton only and them two boroughs have a populatioon of more than 400k, which is far far more than the population of southampton for example, and then when you add on all of kent and bromley etc... yet our support is terrible. i guess it is competing with all the other london clubs and hence a large proportion of what should be our support follow spurs or arsenal but still find it amazing how bad our away support is especially when, as you say, our home attendances seem to be just about holding up to a reasonable level even allowing for the exaggeration of season tickets etc
Just to put this attendance thing to bed (on this thread anyway) West Ham took 1100 fans to Manchester yesterday. Yep, nearly three times as many us but pretty poor really when it's to probably the most attractive fixure in the English game. We, on the other hand were playing Huddersfield, in the third division, on a bank holiday weekend, during the holiday season. It's funny how some peoples priorities are allowed to change with family issues, finances, etc coming into play but everyone else is expected to turn up regardless and when they don't we have yet another round of negative posts.
Millwall's poor start was down to a run of injuries to key players though. They had the players present in the club. The emergence of Steve Morrison made a big difference for them, and you notice they play well as a team. All the players seem to know their jobs and they play well as a unit. That hasn't happened yet this year at Charlton, but that is not a surprise given it is a relatively new team. Some patience will be required from Charlton fans and it may come together with some additions and the team geling. Maybe this year our second half of the season will be stronger ?
There is a number of problems, Pace is lacking at the centre of defence, lack of left back cover, right wing cover and a goal scorer.
Maybe Benson will fill the goal scoring slot, don't know enough about him. Would Fortune or Fry be a better partner for either Doc or Dailey ?
Putting x2 slow but good central defenders together was not probably the brightest management decision.
The creative midfield slot seems to be missing. Racon does seem to be either injured or lacking some drive. Not sure why. Maybe because it is clear, on the wages he is on, unless we are promoted that he is not going to get that again at Charlton. (Don't want to turn this into a racon thread).
Maybe 352 would be worth playing to pack the midfield ?
Going to one of the top premiership clubs to watch your team getting a hiding, seems to be a waste of money. Worth going if you have not been to the stadium, but if money is short it is not that an attractive proposition. You spend top dollar for an uncompetitive match and your team loses.
All those complaining about the away attendance. You got to remember the economic times we live in and the fact there is a big risk of a deep recesssion and further unemployment with all the cuts coming our way. Maybe some fans are trying to rein in the spending.
I got a season ticket (and had to think hard, if I could justify the expense and time), but can't afford to go to many away games, not that I don't want to.
Charlton fans are living in the same economic times as every other club in the country......
Home fan / per away fan we must have the worst away support in the country or the best home support !!
Thought before the goal we were the stronger side just didnt have that cutting edge to get that goal we deserved.
The first goal was down to the keeper, there was no need for him to come out of his goal like that Doherty had it covered. The second goal should of been a penalty, the ref gave the penatly and then they scored from the corner
The second half was por I thought, just no creativity and lack of thrust up top
Andy ...I was there yesterday too, am one of the oldies you refer to and am definitely not there for the "day trip" . I attend 95% of all away matches together with a small group of friends of varying ages and we go to support the team. End of.
Please don't criticise those who put their hands in their pockets to watch the lads all over the country - we know that more would be with us, family & finances etc allowing. Of course, Addicks will be at Brentford, Southampton, Brighton etc in greater numbers.....shorter journey etc. Didn't get a glimpse of many "regulars" yesterday but it is Bank Holiday weekend and not an ideal day for travelling too far. We were only a few cars away from an accident on the M1 on the way north....
It's rather difficult to create an "atmosphere" in the away end with only 405 peeps although the young drummer did his best. We all support in different ways. Just because I don't stand up all match, and shout obscenities at the ref and opposition doesn't mean I am any less passionate than those that do. AND was there a great deal to get excited about yesterday ????
Suggest you carry on supporting in YOUR way, and respect the way that others do . The fact that they're there at all should be enough.
Poor support? The poster who said we had poor support should have been around back in the 70's with 4-5000 in a cavernous 70,000 capacity Valley. For us in tier 3 to be drawing in excess of 14,000 fans having endured the last 4 seasons is nothing short of a miracle......I suggest that some people need a reality check before they let their fingers touch a keyboard. Furthermore, its acknowledged that our away support isnt great, week in and week out and never has been since I started watching us play in the 60's. I dont need to come on here and look at threads which have no bearing on our support to be constantly force fed the drivel that some posters continue to drone on about.....youre boring, youre irritating, youre old news....find a new hobby.
I'm keeping an update of this year v last year, whereby I am taking Bournemouth as Wycombe. Based on th same fixtures as last year we are point behind where we were and that was as a resultof yesterdays game. Given that we are a lot weaker than last year thats not bad.
Disappointing result....but that is just it...a disappointing result. Last season we were unbeaten for a number of matches but where did we end up? I'm hoping we will come good once all the new boys get to know each other better, particularly Abbot, and then make a push for promotion at the business end of the season.
[cite]Posted By: vff[/cite]Putting x2 slow but good central defenders together was not probably the brightest management decision.
We can't be the only team in this league lacking a bit of pace at centre back though?
Any quick centre back only playing at this level is likely to have some other big weaknesses in their game, Sam Sodje a good example.
Fortunately there aren't that many quick and consistent goalscorers in this league. I think creating chances is a bigger problem in our team at the moment than not having more pace at centre back.
Yesterday it seemed to me that we had two problem areas:
Firstly when heading the ball out of defense both Daily & Mac headers were picked up by the opposition which was caused by a lack of understanding between the defense and the midfield which I'm sure they will sort out.
Secondly when an attack was mounted there was no end result - one shot on target, it seemed that Pav & Martin had very little understanding of each other, also Pav seems slow and Martin lightweight.
If PP can get in the 3 recruits he wants then I would hope that the current problems will be resolved and we should be a top six team, which with our current financial restraint is all we can expect.
Those who criticize the crowd yesterday should remember that it was a bank holiday, money is tight and people do have family commitments. Until they scored their 2nd goal we were quite noisy but did go quiet after that, but then the same does happen at the Valley with 14,000 and not 400. I had a Spurs fan with me who was very impressed with our support in the first half hour.
[cite]Posted By: lancashire lad[/cite]I'm so pleased Spurs lost!
Also got booed off as well............no..................hang on...........that can't have happened can it........we are they only supporters who ever boo a poor performance aren't we?
can't quote ValiantPhil from the first page but he has posted the most telling comment for me. Shots on target = 1. Last week Oldham at home, shots on target = 1. First game, Bournemouth at home, shots on target = 2. Familiar pattern here ? Don't say we havn't any money, can't afford a 20 goal striker balh blah. ANYONE can have a shot at goal, not just a striker, but we are goal shy as a team. Work on their shooting and tell them that when they have a sight of goal shoot, don't pass, shoot. Shooting more often we will score more goals FACT. Too much pussy-footing around for my liking. I'd rather see someone shoot ten times in a game, miss with nine but the other goes in. Shots mean goals.
Otherwise, wasn't there so can't commemt. Congrats to the 405 who did go. Anyone there was there to support the team and not on a day-trip out so get over it Andy if you don't like the fact that they didn't join in with the incest song or any other inane offerings that were sung. Anyone that goes that long way knowing that in all likelihood we will only have one or two efforts on goal is deserving of praise. Bloody hell, just why am I going to Exeter then ??
Just read a couple of reports on the game but not able to connect to the OS at the moment so I still don't know if putting Fry on as a substitute in the 88th minute was a tactical substitution or due to an injury. If it was a tactical substitution in the 88th minute when the team is already 3 0 down I would love to hear Parky's reasoning. Equally, if it was due to an injury that would mean that with the team 2 0 after the first half, been outplayed from the start of the second half having held their own for most of the first half, going 3 0 down after 82 minutes, Parky decided it was necessary to make only one tactical substitution and that was not until 70 minutes from the end!
[cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]So he's got it wrong either way Red yeah?
Don't really understand the point you are making, or if you are making a point at all! He got it wrong in one way. At 2 0 down and chasing the game and then 3 0 down he deemed it necessary to make only one tactical substitution. Not for the first time I am expressing the view that he does not seem to know, in my opinion, when and how to make tactical substitutions. Does expressing that view offend you in some way?
Comments
i agree re: the similar sized clubs thing. imo certainly when we were in the prem we should have been approaching similar support to west ham - we have the whole of greenwich and bexley which should be pretty much charlton only and them two boroughs have a populatioon of more than 400k, which is far far more than the population of southampton for example, and then when you add on all of kent and bromley etc... yet our support is terrible. i guess it is competing with all the other london clubs and hence a large proportion of what should be our support follow spurs or arsenal but still find it amazing how bad our away support is especially when, as you say, our home attendances seem to be just about holding up to a reasonable level even allowing for the exaggeration of season tickets etc
unfortunately there is a lot of clumsy irony at play on this board, it is often used to preemptively belittle people who may wish to express a differing or non-party line view.........I won't name the worst offender but it can be very grating
last year, people were shot down for saying that the teams we were beating at the start were relegation candidates.
Heres hoping as usual that we get at least 2 in before the window shuts and we mange to stay in touch until the next window and get the bodies in then to make a final push. As someone said earlier, Millwall made a bad start to last season but went on a late run to get promotion, with the right signings we could too.
Just to put this attendance thing to bed (on this thread anyway) West Ham took 1100 fans to Manchester yesterday. Yep, nearly three times as many us but pretty poor really when it's to probably the most attractive fixure in the English game. We, on the other hand were playing Huddersfield, in the third division, on a bank holiday weekend, during the holiday season. It's funny how some peoples priorities are allowed to change with family issues, finances, etc coming into play but everyone else is expected to turn up regardless and when they don't we have yet another round of negative posts.
There is a number of problems, Pace is lacking at the centre of defence, lack of left back cover, right wing cover and a goal scorer.
Maybe Benson will fill the goal scoring slot, don't know enough about him. Would Fortune or Fry be a better partner for either Doc or Dailey ?
Putting x2 slow but good central defenders together was not probably the brightest management decision.
The creative midfield slot seems to be missing. Racon does seem to be either injured or lacking some drive. Not sure why. Maybe because it is clear, on the wages he is on, unless we are promoted that he is not going to get that again at Charlton. (Don't want to turn this into a racon thread).
Maybe 352 would be worth playing to pack the midfield ?
Was it 451 / 4411 or 442 yesterday ?
Ifs, buts and maybes though at this point.
All those complaining about the away attendance. You got to remember the economic times we live in and the fact there is a big risk of a deep recesssion and further unemployment with all the cuts coming our way. Maybe some fans are trying to rein in the spending.
I got a season ticket (and had to think hard, if I could justify the expense and time), but can't afford to go to many away games, not that I don't want to.
Home fan / per away fan we must have the worst away support in the country or the best home support !!
The first goal was down to the keeper, there was no need for him to come out of his goal like that Doherty had it covered.
The second goal should of been a penalty, the ref gave the penatly and then they scored from the corner
The second half was por I thought, just no creativity and lack of thrust up top
Please don't criticise those who put their hands in their pockets to watch the lads all over the country - we know that more would be with us, family & finances etc allowing. Of course, Addicks will be at Brentford, Southampton, Brighton etc in greater numbers.....shorter journey etc. Didn't get a glimpse of many "regulars" yesterday but it is Bank Holiday weekend and not an ideal day for travelling too far. We were only a few cars away from an accident on the M1 on the way north....
It's rather difficult to create an "atmosphere" in the away end with only 405 peeps although the young drummer did his best. We all support in different ways. Just because I don't stand up all match, and shout obscenities at the ref and opposition doesn't mean I am any less passionate than those that do. AND was there a great deal to get excited about yesterday ????
Suggest you carry on supporting in YOUR way, and respect the way that others do . The fact that they're there at all should be enough.
Cheer up everyone
Any quick centre back only playing at this level is likely to have some other big weaknesses in their game, Sam Sodje a good example.
Fortunately there aren't that many quick and consistent goalscorers in this league. I think creating chances is a bigger problem in our team at the moment than not having more pace at centre back.
Firstly when heading the ball out of defense both Daily & Mac headers were picked up by the opposition which was caused by a lack of understanding between the defense and the midfield which I'm sure they will sort out.
Secondly when an attack was mounted there was no end result - one shot on target, it seemed that Pav & Martin had very little understanding of each other, also Pav seems slow and Martin lightweight.
If PP can get in the 3 recruits he wants then I would hope that the current problems will be resolved and we should be a top six team, which with our current financial restraint is all we can expect.
Those who criticize the crowd yesterday should remember that it was a bank holiday, money is tight and people do have family commitments. Until they scored their 2nd goal we were quite noisy but did go quiet after that, but then the same does happen at the Valley with 14,000 and not 400. I had a Spurs fan with me who was very impressed with our support in the first half hour.
I'm so pleased Spurs lost!
Also got booed off as well............no..................hang on...........that can't have happened can it........we are they only supporters who ever boo a poor performance aren't we?
Bit silly.
Who are you talking about? Hang on, nah, actually I really don't care.
Otherwise, wasn't there so can't commemt. Congrats to the 405 who did go. Anyone there was there to support the team and not on a day-trip out so get over it Andy if you don't like the fact that they didn't join in with the incest song or any other inane offerings that were sung. Anyone that goes that long way knowing that in all likelihood we will only have one or two efforts on goal is deserving of praise. Bloody hell, just why am I going to Exeter then ??
Don't really understand the point you are making, or if you are making a point at all! He got it wrong in one way. At 2 0 down and chasing the game and then 3 0 down he deemed it necessary to make only one tactical substitution. Not for the first time I am expressing the view that he does not seem to know, in my opinion, when and how to make tactical substitutions. Does expressing that view offend you in some way?