We always seem to turn out tidy players who are a little bit lightweight. At the risk of generalising, is it a coincidence that very few are black, who tend to be natural athletes and possibly more mature physically and able to break through to 1st team earlier. We've had Shittu and Mambo as defenders, who are big rather than athletic, nobody else since the Rufus era. Sam is quite little, Jamie Martin lacked the application, who else is there? It seems Palace & Millwall seem to get black kids who are hungry, big and powerful, but not us despite our catchment area. Are we too nice? Do we scare kids off with too much discipline? Anyone got an insiders view on our academy?
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And Jaimal Ryce-Pudding or whartever his name is.
And Nathan Ashton.
And ..... sure, I get your point.
(or does he not count?)
Maybe Robbie ate all the food down at the Academy ?
He wasn't known as Psycho for nothing .......(!)
and your evidence for that statement is what precisely?
However, why this is perceived to be a bad thing is weird.
Oh and I would add that Bowyer certainly had a nasty streak to him and everyone remembers the "McDonald's indecent" whilst he was at the club.
He looked lightweight at AFC Wimbledon - about 3 stone light. Not Mambo though !
Barring Rufus, when you consider that Webster, Balmer, Todd and Perry were all better than the above athletic 4 African/English.
I think unfortunately it more reflects on the idiotic foreign coaches influence on the English game. Sure Vierra and Stam may have symbolised the best of foreign athleticism, but there are plenty of British players a hella of a lot better than super-dross than Traore etc.
I can't tell if Solly will make it, and was highly doubtful of Wagstaff in 2008-2009. But Solly from the start and Wagstaff from last season have shown more desire than 95% of the dross at this club in the last four-five seasons.
Off the top of my head, Fuseini has made quite a few appearances but was released.
Marvin Williams started promisingly, released.
Er, starting to struggle now. Must be one or two more. But can't recall many who have made it.
Phil Walker
Also Moses Ashikodi?
2 more players that never made it. (& Preston isn't black, he was "super race" as my mate calls himself)
Phil Walker was 30+ years ago!
The original post was implying we regularly turn out big, strong, athletic players who are black. We haven't!
My basis (rather than evidence) is knowing a fair few people who have either been in or in control of large parts of our youth set up. Not going to name names, don't want any glory for it, and if you don't believe me, fine, but that is the basis of my statement.
Yep, that's a good one, forgot about him.
Still doesn't really provide enough evidence that "It seems Palace & Millwall seem to get black kids who are hungry, big and powerful" who make it to the 1st team is a true statement.
Elliot probably fits that description well however.
Williams was a small tricky winger/striker who didn't have the hunger.
Fuseini is a short, stocky player that's been released.
Odunsi was hungry for food. (I thought he looked very promising, but didn't work out, now a security guard last I heard)
The above are over an 8-10 year or so period.
What I would say is that when I used to be over at your Academy, you had the reputation for trying to play football. That meant you generally had players who were good on the ball, tricky, neat, tidy, speedy and lithe - black & white.
A few games you played against Millwall threw up stark contrasts. Millwall were dominated with big, burly, athletic players, black & white. Long ball merchants, little skill, plenty of physicality.
Mentioned this to a mate of mine who played for Millwall. He confirmed my worst fears. The coaching staff at the time concentrated on getting the biggest & most athletic lads playing. Invariably without the technical skill, none of these made it. But, in the short term, there were results.
Charlton seemed to be the opposite. Rather concentrate on developing skill, tactics etc and results were second. The way it should be really. I believe Millwall have now gone back to a better selection criteria as well, at least I hope so!
With regards to players making it....it seems both clubs are complaining about a lack of youngsters coming through. Whether that's down to scouting, coaching, facilities, I don't know. I think that nowadays it's more down to the alternative lifestyles that are available to kids in our catchment areas. Kids are generally exposed to much more at a much younger age. The temptation of drink, drugs and sex is available much younger throughout South London and north Kent. Kids nowadays have to be much more disciplined and dedicated to make it and so that's why I think less kids turn into the professionals their ability merits.
Do you know that the last player from Chelsea's academy to play in their first team was John Terry who is nearly 30!!! I think about 1% of kids actually go on to represent the first team which is a frightening figure. My theory is work on them skills - don't worry about competetive games until they are 12 or 13. The skills are the hardest things to learn and the earlier you teach them the better.
It's not just Chelsea. If you take the "traditional" top four (Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool & Arsenal) the youngest "established" player produced by those Clubs is probably Steven Gerard (although Wiltshire looks like bucking the trend).
Compare that to the days of Fowler/Owen/McManaman/Carragher/Gerard and G. Neville/P.Neville/Beckham/Scholes/Butt/Giggs/Sharp et al who all appeared within a few years of each other and it isn't difficult to see how times have changed.
Could be a case of horses for courses....you found yourself in the lower leagues when the game is a lot less technical and airy fairy and more hit and hoof whereas up to a few years ago we were probably hoping to uncover the next Joe Cole to set the prem alight with trickery.
Possibly now we do need a few lumps for the league we are in. Or even parker/ bowyer type players who have great technical ability but also can mix it up....although they are rarer than virgins at The Venue unfortunately.
Obviously the accountants might disagree.
I dont think you'll get a more varied looking group of footballers (physique wise) than Mambo, Waggy, Cousins and McGinty, or from the previous generation, Bowyer, Fortune, Lisbie and Turner.
I dont see what being Black or White has got to do with anything, most of the lads comeing out are, average sized and white with good ball skills, but that's probably the average demographic in a SE7 school with the addition of some good ball skills.
Or am I missing something?