Millwall moved south of the river in 1910. Woolwich Arsenal moved north in 1913.
CAFC went through some very lean times, including an abortive move to Catford in 1923.
I've never understood how Arsenal were/are allowed to perpetuate in their name connection with a factory producing weapons of mass destruction. They should have been called Highbury Wanderers or some such. And it also includes Arse, which is just plain rude.
Millwall moved south of the river in 1910. Woolwich Arsenal moved north in 1913.
CAFC went through some very lean times, including an abortive move to Catford in 1923.
I've never understood how Arsenal were/are allowed to perpetuate in their name connection with a factory producing weapons of mass destruction. They should have been called Highbury Wanderers or some such. And it also includes Arse, which is just plain rude.
Yes, it's a pity they were still producing this stuff in 1939. Mass destruction? Hardly.
Millwall moved south of the river in 1910. Woolwich Arsenal moved north in 1913.
CAFC went through some very lean times, including an abortive move to Catford in 1923.
I've never understood how Arsenal were/are allowed to perpetuate in their name connection with a factory producing weapons of mass destruction. They should have been called Highbury Wanderers or some such. And it also includes Arse, which is just plain rude.
Millwall moved south of the river in 1910. Woolwich Arsenal moved north in 1913.
CAFC went through some very lean times, including an abortive move to Catford in 1923.
I've never understood how Arsenal were/are allowed to perpetuate in their name connection with a factory producing weapons of mass destruction. They should have been called Highbury Wanderers or some such. And it also includes Arse, which is just plain rude.
Was that a serious comment about weapons of mass destruction?
Millwall moved south of the river in 1910. Woolwich Arsenal moved north in 1913.
CAFC went through some very lean times, including an abortive move to Catford in 1923.
I've never understood how Arsenal were/are allowed to perpetuate in their name connection with a factory producing weapons of mass destruction. They should have been called Highbury Wanderers or some such. And it also includes Arse, which is just plain rude.
Was that a serious comment about weapons of mass destruction?
A serious comment? Answering also a previous poster, not for one moment would I demean the incalculable contribution made by the Woolwich Arsenal over centuries to the country's well-being. Being a Woolwich resident the Arsenal's history is rightly a matter of immense local pride. My remarks were intended to mildly disparage only those arrogant Gooners. I am going along to the event, hoping to learn more about a very interesting aspect of local history.
Millwall moved south of the river in 1910. Woolwich Arsenal moved north in 1913.
CAFC went through some very lean times, including an abortive move to Catford in 1923.
I've never understood how Arsenal were/are allowed to perpetuate in their name connection with a factory producing weapons of mass destruction. They should have been called Highbury Wanderers or some such. And it also includes Arse, which is just plain rude.
Was that a serious comment about weapons of mass destruction?
A serious comment? Answering also a previous poster, not for one moment would I demean the incalculable contribution made by the Woolwich Arsenal over centuries to the country's well-being. Being a Woolwich resident the Arsenal's history is rightly a matter of immense local pride. My remarks were intended to mildly disparage only those arrogant Gooners. I am going along to the event, hoping to learn more about a very interesting aspect of local history.
Carry on disparaging those Gooners. Had an idea your comment was made with tongue in cheek.
No worries. The strokes pulled by the Arsenal chairman Sir Henry Norris, particularly at Spurs' expense, were just unbelievable. This, rather than just local rivalry, explains the mutual animosity between the clubs.
The Arsenal move in 1913 took a lot of football supporters away from SE London. An affect that lasted for decades as fathers handed their allegiance to their sons.
Must admit I can't find the evidence now, but I recall hearing that for some years the home fixtures of Arsenal and Charlton were not allowed to clash as it had a detrimental effect on the home gate at the Valley. That would have been in the halcyon days when you could actually follow more than one team without fear of being ridiculed.
There's certainly a legacy of Arsenal support in our area of south London, but I think it's over played it's a legacy of the old club, Arsenal are the biggest club in London, and their support is everywhere. They, I would say are also the club of London's black community, and with Woolwich being so diverse, that probably adds to it.
As for whether Charlton growth came from them leaving, who knows, but WA were a club on the edge of financial ruin, stuck in a part of Plumstead that even to this day, doesn't have a huge population, at a ground which was compromised, as you could watch games for free from the Sewer bank. So there's every chance we would have made it, and probably over taken them if they had stayed in Plumstead.
I n my childhood is the early 60s there was a legacy of families supporting Arsenal from before the WW1. Grandads passing it onto sons and grandsons. I cannot imagine that is the case now. I suspect it is new immigrants coming to this country and already supporting Arsenal because of Sky television that are in a sense carrying on the SE London support for Arsenal.
I n my childhood is the early 60s there was a legacy of families supporting Arsenal from before the WW1. Grandads passing it onto sons and grandsons. I cannot imagine that is the case now. I suspect it is new immigrants coming to this country and already supporting Arsenal because of Sky television that are in a sense carrying on the SE London support for Arsenal.
A lot of that generation will have moved out to Bexleyheath, Dartford and beyond, similar to West Ham families moving further out of London.
Let's face it if you have relatives who supported Arsenal, it's hardly a difficult decision to follow suit, especially if you grew up in the Henry, Bergkamp era! It's not like someone supporting Luton or Birmingham City because their grandparents did!
Lewis coaches in General Gordon Place use to do trips to Arsenal home matches.
I can remember going to a few Arsenal games on these coaches in the late 60s plenty of old boys on them no doubt some of them in their 50s and 60s would have watched Arsenal at Woolwich (or Plumstead to be precise)
I remember Lewis Coaches office at the top of tunnel avenue in Greenwich used to run coaches to all Arsenal games at Highbury as well as to all Charlton away games. They didn’t do that for any other London club so there must have been a local demand.
If Arsenal hadn't cleared off, would Charlton have ever developed into a decent league club? Or would there have been space for both clubs, after all Chelsea, Fulham and QPR are all very close to each other, while Brentford aren't that far away. Similarly West Ham and Leyton Orient are close together.
We'll never know. One of the reasons WAFC cleared off was because they reckoned they couldn't get a crowd in South London. Which would have been a surprise to the 75,000 who squeezed in the Valley.
I n my childhood is the early 60s there was a legacy of families supporting Arsenal from before the WW1. Grandads passing it onto sons and grandsons. I cannot imagine that is the case now. I suspect it is new immigrants coming to this country and already supporting Arsenal because of Sky television that are in a sense carrying on the SE London support for Arsenal.
Funny, my granddad passed on to his son, who passed on to me, that I could support anyone but Arsenal. They both absoultely hated them. My granddad was 13 when they left and he never forgave them.
If Arsenal hadn't cleared off, would Charlton have ever developed into a decent league club? Or would there have been space for both clubs, after all Chelsea, Fulham and QPR are all very close to each other, while Brentford aren't that far away. Similarly West Ham and Leyton Orient are close together.
We'll never know. One of the reasons WAFC cleared off was because they reckoned they couldn't get a crowd in South London. Which would have been a surprise to the 75,000 who squeezed in the Valley.
A significant proportion of our highest recorded home attendances were actually against Arsenal.
That's true. When we had 68k against them it was twice our average gate. But to be fair, lots of teams had their highest attendances against Arsenal. And our highest was against Villa.
If Arsenal hadn't cleared off, would Charlton have ever developed into a decent league club? Or would there have been space for both clubs, after all Chelsea, Fulham and QPR are all very close to each other, while Brentford aren't that far away. Similarly West Ham and Leyton Orient are close together.
We'll never know. One of the reasons WAFC cleared off was because they reckoned they couldn't get a crowd in South London. Which would have been a surprise to the 75,000 who squeezed in the Valley.
Three generations of my family were in that crowd....
If Arsenal hadn't cleared off, would Charlton have ever developed into a decent league club? Or would there have been space for both clubs, after all Chelsea, Fulham and QPR are all very close to each other, while Brentford aren't that far away. Similarly West Ham and Leyton Orient are close together.
We'll never know. One of the reasons WAFC cleared off was because they reckoned they couldn't get a crowd in South London. Which would have been a surprise to the 75,000 who squeezed in the Valley.
Three generations of my family were in that crowd....
That's true. When we had 68k against them it was twice our average gate. But to be fair, lots of teams had their highest attendances against Arsenal. And our highest was against Villa.
If that was an FA cup game, I remember reading that there was estimated to actually be over 80k in the ground.
That's true. When we had 68k against them it was twice our average gate. But to be fair, lots of teams had their highest attendances against Arsenal. And our highest was against Villa.
If that was an FA cup game, I remember reading that there was estimated to actually be over 80k in the ground.
@DaveMehmet Yes, a wall or turnstiles were broke down and an estimated 15 to 20k got in free. My old man was a gooner and was at that match, he'd been in the Valley for previous matches against Arsenal and said that day the ground was full to bursting and he guessed at a crowd in excess of 80k. There is some old news reel knocking about on the internet from that game and the crowd scenes are amazing.
That's true. When we had 68k against them it was twice our average gate. But to be fair, lots of teams had their highest attendances against Arsenal. And our highest was against Villa.
If that was an FA cup game, I remember reading that there was estimated to actually be over 80k in the ground.
My Granddad was one of 'em. He went to the valley for almost every game, until he shuffled off in 1995, bless him.
12.2.38 Villa 75031 (FAC) 18.2.56 Arsenal 71767 (FAC) 17.10.36 Arsenal 68160 24.1.53 Arsenal 66555 7.10.50 Arsenal 63539 3.9.50 Spurs 61480 22.1.49 Pompey 61475 27.8.47 Arsenal 60323 24.10.53 Arsenal 60259 25.10.47 Chelsea 58866
Comments
I assume they're using the new room at the back for this.
Millwall moved south of the river in 1910. Woolwich Arsenal moved north in 1913.
CAFC went through some very lean times, including an abortive move to Catford in 1923.
I've never understood how Arsenal were/are allowed to perpetuate in their name connection with a factory producing weapons of mass destruction. They should have been called Highbury Wanderers or some such. And it also includes Arse, which is just plain rude.
No worries. The strokes pulled by the Arsenal chairman Sir Henry Norris, particularly at Spurs' expense, were just unbelievable. This, rather than just local rivalry, explains the mutual animosity between the clubs.
Must admit I can't find the evidence now, but I recall hearing that for some years the home fixtures of Arsenal and Charlton were not allowed to clash as it had a detrimental effect on the home gate at the Valley. That would have been in the halcyon days when you could actually follow more than one team without fear of being ridiculed.
As for whether Charlton growth came from them leaving, who knows, but WA were a club on the edge of financial ruin, stuck in a part of Plumstead that even to this day, doesn't have a huge population, at a ground which was compromised, as you could watch games for free from the Sewer bank. So there's every chance we would have made it, and probably over taken them if they had stayed in Plumstead.
Let's face it if you have relatives who supported Arsenal, it's hardly a difficult decision to follow suit, especially if you grew up in the Henry, Bergkamp era! It's not like someone supporting Luton or Birmingham City because their grandparents did!
From H&A CAFC's 10 biggest official attendances
12.2.38 Villa 75031 (FAC)
18.2.56 Arsenal 71767 (FAC)
17.10.36 Arsenal 68160
24.1.53 Arsenal 66555
7.10.50 Arsenal 63539
3.9.50 Spurs 61480
22.1.49 Pompey 61475
27.8.47 Arsenal 60323
24.10.53 Arsenal 60259
25.10.47 Chelsea 58866