[quote][cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]The fact is if the youth players were ready to play every week, we wouldn't have taken so many players on loan. The likes of Mooney and Akpo Sodje aren't great, but at the moment they are better players than our own young strikers such as Tuna and Perkins.[/quote]
Not sure that we couldn't have tried our youth a bit more. We don't know how they would have done because we didn't give them a chance. Uncle makes a valid point.
[quote][cite]Posted By: uncle[/cite]Its no good developing the youth if when one comes through the manger wont play him. I will bet you'll see many more 30 somethings next season rather than youth because its what Mr Parkinson is comfortable with[/quote]
Have to agree, As I posted previously the last time he played (Tuna) he scored at the Valley. Remember he is the same age as Shelvey, in fact a little older, and has a one year contract only. He made his first team debut when we were in the Championship, albeit at the fag end of the season. Is this a case of another one getting away!.... Tell you one thing he thinks he is 'ready' and that is from the horses mouth as they say, wink wink......
As for how to improve the matchday experience? Shut the east, get everyone into the west and north and get an atmosphere going by packing the seats we do sell together. There would be some moaners who have already bought STs there......
Thank God this won't happen, but just why would not wanting to be forced to move from your seat in the east stand that you've occupied for many years make you a 'moaner'?
[cite]Posted By: JorgeCosta[/cite]Not sure that we couldn't have tried our youth a bit more. We don't know how they would have done because we didn't give them a chance. Uncle makes a valid point.
Jonjo yes. Rest of them I don't agree. Solly, Basey and Wagstaff we've used as second choice in their position, which is where they are in their career right now. Not good enough to start ahead of other players just yet, but can offer something.
Tuna has been on loan to 3 Blue Square South sides and struggled to break into the team. Others have been on loan to that level or even lower. They'll come back next season with that bit more experience, and with our budget I'm sure we will see more of them.
I want to see them come through as much as anyone, but as allez said it's all about using them at the right time.
how many times scoham have you seen tuna play. i have seen him 8 times last season and he is ready.he scores for the 18s and reserves regularly the youth cup and on his first start for the first team. the reason parkinson would not play him is he is a coward and a wimp and pinned his hopes on strikers who have done it before to get us out this league, he said just before the loan window opened not getting promoted is not an option!! people go on about because he is not a big lump he is not ready.he is 5ft 10inch and 12stone and twice the size of forster, and yeah feckin forster and mooney has got us out of this league!!!!
[quote][cite]Posted By: nolly[/cite]i would say compact those who sit in the east together not get them to move.[/quote]
I'd agree with that and also close down the Upper West (where I sit), unfortunately because ST's have already been sold for this season we can only do that if we are here for a third season.
In my opinion from what l;ittle I saw of Tuna he was not ready last season and I would not have wanted him thrown in. Carl eaburn, whilst becoming a Charlton legend, was ruined from a promising start as a youth by being thrown in at too young an age, I hope we do not make the same mistake again.
not saying he should of started every game last season but should of been eased in from the bench through the season so more ready this season.scoham i just want to give you some facts as this forum seems to be 90% heresay and 10%fact.tuna was sent out on loan to staines and in the first match won 2-1 with tuna setting up both goals and got motm in the non league paper. second match 1-1 set up the goal.after he was called back to the matchday squad at charlton for the next 3games because of burtons injury. after that he went on loan to woking but we are such a great run club charlton forgot to put his registration papers in to woking so twice tuna drove all that way and had to sit on the bench twidling his thumbs,and could not play.after that he was in the charlton matchday squad again and only went out on loan to welling for the last match of the season or the one before and that is his loan adventure.how do i know this? i go to uni with his brother!!
[cite]Posted By: Nadou[/cite]
Thank God this won't happen, but just why would not wanting to be forced to move from your seat in the east stand that you've occupied for many years make you a 'moaner'?
because you would undoubtedly moan/complain to the club? which by the way you are well within your rights to do. As I said though, if the reasons were explained properly I'd hope they would accept a personal inconvenience in order to help the club.
As for why do it? having the east open and sparsely populated is a significant cost to the club with regards to stewards etc. As the club has to cut costs across the board, it seems to me to be an easy area to do it. surely if by doing that the club could have at least 1 'better quality' player it would be worth it?
Leeds had the second tier of one of their stands shut for all but 2 home games I think last season (including us going there) for cost reasons, it's about facing realities in this crap league.
Then of course, it has been claimed that by compacting the crowd, it should be easier to create an atmosphere. Not convinced myself, main reason would be the cost.
I have never really understood the idea that giving a young player games will in some way be detrimental to them. Of course that young player has to be good enough to warrent getting picked in the first place but provided that is met then what is the problem. I am not saying that a youngster should be expected or required to play every week but featuring regularly from the bench would seem logical to me. Not seen Tuna apart from his first team outing but if he is good enough then I hope to see more of him.
[cite]Posted By: ShootersHillGuru[/cite]Not seen Tuna apart from his first team outing but if he is good enough then I hope to see more of him.
Can't say I have either, but he scored less in the Blue Square South than both Akpo and Mooney did for us in League 1, two players whose goalscoring record has been called 'crap' and have both been derided as awful players. If a striker can't score in a league 3 below ours, I would rather he wasn't playing, whether he's from the academy or not........
allez les addicks...... as sidcupterry states if he was not registered that is not his fault is it!..... I am not saying that Tamer is the finished article, or he is going to score 30 goals a season, but by not even being on the bench he has no chance does he!. I think if you check the preseason he did well!. Remind me again who is the top scorer last season! a midfielder who might not be here next season!. I think what some of us are saying is give the lad an opportunity that is all!, and not half a game here and there.
Sending him out last season may have been a good idea in principle, but I know he was not impressed with it! How because like sidcupterry I spoke to him a couple of weeks ago at the Valley!. By the way sidcupterry Cem used to play along side my sons at Gravesend and Norhtfleeet, and Bexley juniors where Tamer trained when he was a nipper! when I was the manager.
how many times scoham have you seen tuna play. i have seen him 8 times last season and he is ready.he scores for the 18s and reserves regularly the youth cup and on his first start for the first team. the reason parkinson would not play him is he is a coward and a wimp and pinned his hopes on strikers who have done it before to get us out this league, he said just before the loan window opened not getting promoted is not an option!! people go on about because he is not a big lump he is not ready.he is 5ft 10inch and 12stone and twice the size of forster, and yeah feckin forster and mooney has got us out of this league!!!!
I don't know exactly how many times, but probably about 4 or 5 games. He's a decent player but like most of them I'm not sure if he'll make it here or not. Hopefully he will.
I'm not saying he's not ready because he's not a big lump, he's never going to be that type of player. I don't think he's ready because I don't see what he can offer consistently that say Mooney can't. (a similar player, not powerful, links the play, works hard, has a decent football brain).
He scored against Barnet in the JPT, but he didn't actually have a brilliant game, from what I remember some poor touches and a few mistakes. That's a cup game against a side that only just stayed up in League Two.
Can you really have a go at Parkinson for not using him in the last couple of months of the season? With all the big games and pressure of going for promotion, and several more experienced strikers ahead of him? Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not having a go at him, but the last few months of the season was not the time to be throwing in young players. I'm sure we'll see more of him next season, and I want him to do well just like you do.
[cite]Posted By: ShootersHillGuru[/cite]I have never really understood the idea that giving a young player games will in some way be detrimental to them. Of course that young player has to be good enough to warrent getting picked in the first place but provided that is met then what is the problem. I am not saying that a youngster should be expected or required to play every week but featuring regularly from the bench would seem logical to me. Not seen Tuna apart from his first team outing but if he is good enough then I hope to see more of him.
I think it was Parky that explained about Wagstaff, Pardew put him in the team, start of the new season he then took him out, he didn't really understand why. He started against Yeovil in the Carling Cup and struggled, taken off at half time. Took a while before he got his confidence back.
How many times have I seen him play...... about 30 times..... and yes I saw him in the JPT, playing out of position ( too deep) he was taken off for Shelvey yes, and he scored. I also saw him in the Charlton academy when he scored at Highbury two goals in twelve minutes, and various other games. My sons have played with him many times, besides the endless kickabouts over at Goals etc. I think I can claim to have a decent opinion of the lad. So obviously my view is biased!
Let us judge him on the field shall we, all I am saying is that he deserves a chance!
scoham.... agree with most things you have said.but should of been on the bench more around january when we were not winning games. as for mooney i rate mcleod more even though he is crap as well
[cite]Posted By: ken from bexley[/cite]allez les addicks...... as sidcupterry states if he was not registered that is not his fault is it!.....
I am not saying that Tamer is the finished article, or he is going to score 30 goals a season, but by not even being on the bench he has no chance does he!. I think if you check the preseason he did well!. Remind me again who is the top scorer last season! a midfielder who might not be here next season!. I think what some of us are saying is give the lad an opportunity that is all!, and not half a game here and there.
Sending him out last season may have been a good idea in principle, but I know he was not impressed with it! How because like sidcupterry I spoke to him a couple of weeks ago at the Valley!. By the way sidcupterry Cem used to play along side my sons at Gravesend and Norhtfleeet, and Bexley juniors where Tamer trained when he was a nipper! when I was the manager.
But if he can't score in the league 3 below the one we currently inhabit (and are one of the better teams in), any manager who throws him into the team would be stupid. If he wasn't from our academy and had for example been brought in as a loan, we'd all be up in arms that we are playing a player with such a poor record, even if he was only on the bench.
He may have been good in pre-season but that is very different to league games, in both the quality of the opposition and intensity. Austin at Swindon for example, although originally 3 leagues below where Tamer was on loan, had a record of a goal a game, and then scored in reserves games before he was even considered for the first team. Tamer has neither of those things (a good goal scoring record or reserve game form).
I want him to succeed as much as anyone but for the benefit of the team, and his own development (see Wagstaff last season) it was better he wasn't played this season gone. As for next season, give him a go in pre-season again, then send him on loan at the beginning of the season preferably to a Blue Square South/League Two club. If he starts banging them in, then put him on the bench upon his return, but at the moment it would be unfair on the lad to put him into the high pressure environment of early season games without some kind of form behind him
In the end Tuna has plenty of time, he's 18 and only just turned pro. Not like he's 20/21, been around a while and not been given a fair chance. Basey is 3 years older and still not a regular, Wagstaff and Solly a bit older than Tuna and not regulars either. Not many young players get a proper run at 17/18, in fact not many make their debut while in their first year as an u18.
allez les addicks.....totally disagree. he was banging the goals in the reserves earlier in the season. then the club started fecking him about!!! does anyone on here read all the postings that people have. i will say it again just in case people did not read it.tuna went on loan to staines for 2 games where he was motm both games setting up all the goals.thats it. after that he got recalled for the next 3 charlton games in the matcday squad because of burtons injury.then sent out on loan again without sending in his registration.well done charlton.so for woking he could not play and had to sit on the bench twice.after that in the matchday squad again for charlton.then his registration for welling went in late so only made the last game of their season or the one before that.so you say he has to score in the non league.would you say thats a fair crack in non league.it seems our club is run by muppets!!!
Put Tuna into the 1st team last season and the crowd would have slaughtered him. One missed shot and he would have been the Mooney for those that seem to relish the opportunity to slag off our players and a young player does not deserve that. See him two or three matches and I wonder how many seasons it would take for him to get his confidence and ability back. Look at shelv's who is the most talented youth player we have had since Parker, when he made mistakes he was slaughtered by people around me. I don't agree with everything with parkie and his team but in this instance its blindingly obvious that he was right to hold back Tuna. hopefully next season he will get more opportunities to be blooded, but carefully and gently.
kap10.....agree with that. hopefully the youngsters are given chanches next season not only tuna but davidson and mambo as well.as we are going to be in this league for a while. they then have to step up the the plate.if not they will move on including tuna.
Comments
Not sure that we couldn't have tried our youth a bit more. We don't know how they would have done because we didn't give them a chance. Uncle makes a valid point.
[quote][cite]Posted By: uncle[/cite]Its no good developing the youth if when one comes through the manger wont play him. I will bet you'll see many more 30 somethings next season rather than youth because its what Mr Parkinson is comfortable with[/quote]
Have to agree, As I posted previously the last time he played (Tuna) he scored at the Valley. Remember he is the same age as Shelvey, in fact a little older, and has a one year contract only. He made his first team debut when we were in the Championship, albeit at the fag end of the season. Is this a case of another one getting away!.... Tell you one thing he thinks he is 'ready' and that is from the horses mouth as they say, wink wink......
As for how to improve the matchday experience? Shut the east, get everyone into the west and north and get an atmosphere going by packing the seats we do sell together. There would be some moaners who have already bought STs there......
Thank God this won't happen, but just why would not wanting to be forced to move from your seat in the east stand that you've occupied for many years make you a 'moaner'?
Tuna has been on loan to 3 Blue Square South sides and struggled to break into the team. Others have been on loan to that level or even lower. They'll come back next season with that bit more experience, and with our budget I'm sure we will see more of them.
I want to see them come through as much as anyone, but as allez said it's all about using them at the right time.
I'd agree with that and also close down the Upper West (where I sit), unfortunately because ST's have already been sold for this season we can only do that if we are here for a third season.
In my opinion from what l;ittle I saw of Tuna he was not ready last season and I would not have wanted him thrown in. Carl eaburn, whilst becoming a Charlton legend, was ruined from a promising start as a youth by being thrown in at too young an age, I hope we do not make the same mistake again.
because you would undoubtedly moan/complain to the club? which by the way you are well within your rights to do. As I said though, if the reasons were explained properly I'd hope they would accept a personal inconvenience in order to help the club.
As for why do it? having the east open and sparsely populated is a significant cost to the club with regards to stewards etc. As the club has to cut costs across the board, it seems to me to be an easy area to do it. surely if by doing that the club could have at least 1 'better quality' player it would be worth it?
Leeds had the second tier of one of their stands shut for all but 2 home games I think last season (including us going there) for cost reasons, it's about facing realities in this crap league.
Then of course, it has been claimed that by compacting the crowd, it should be easier to create an atmosphere. Not convinced myself, main reason would be the cost.
Can't say I have either, but he scored less in the Blue Square South than both Akpo and Mooney did for us in League 1, two players whose goalscoring record has been called 'crap' and have both been derided as awful players. If a striker can't score in a league 3 below ours, I would rather he wasn't playing, whether he's from the academy or not........
I am not saying that Tamer is the finished article, or he is going to score 30 goals a season, but by not even being on the bench he has no chance does he!. I think if you check the preseason he did well!. Remind me again who is the top scorer last season! a midfielder who might not be here next season!. I think what some of us are saying is give the lad an opportunity that is all!, and not half a game here and there.
Sending him out last season may have been a good idea in principle, but I know he was not impressed with it! How because like sidcupterry I spoke to him a couple of weeks ago at the Valley!. By the way sidcupterry Cem used to play along side my sons at Gravesend and Norhtfleeet, and Bexley juniors where Tamer trained when he was a nipper! when I was the manager.
I'm not saying he's not ready because he's not a big lump, he's never going to be that type of player. I don't think he's ready because I don't see what he can offer consistently that say Mooney can't. (a similar player, not powerful, links the play, works hard, has a decent football brain).
He scored against Barnet in the JPT, but he didn't actually have a brilliant game, from what I remember some poor touches and a few mistakes. That's a cup game against a side that only just stayed up in League Two.
Can you really have a go at Parkinson for not using him in the last couple of months of the season? With all the big games and pressure of going for promotion, and several more experienced strikers ahead of him? Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not having a go at him, but the last few months of the season was not the time to be throwing in young players. I'm sure we'll see more of him next season, and I want him to do well just like you do.
I think it was Parky that explained about Wagstaff, Pardew put him in the team, start of the new season he then took him out, he didn't really understand why. He started against Yeovil in the Carling Cup and struggled, taken off at half time. Took a while before he got his confidence back.
Let us judge him on the field shall we, all I am saying is that he deserves a chance!
But if he can't score in the league 3 below the one we currently inhabit (and are one of the better teams in), any manager who throws him into the team would be stupid. If he wasn't from our academy and had for example been brought in as a loan, we'd all be up in arms that we are playing a player with such a poor record, even if he was only on the bench.
He may have been good in pre-season but that is very different to league games, in both the quality of the opposition and intensity. Austin at Swindon for example, although originally 3 leagues below where Tamer was on loan, had a record of a goal a game, and then scored in reserves games before he was even considered for the first team. Tamer has neither of those things (a good goal scoring record or reserve game form).
I want him to succeed as much as anyone but for the benefit of the team, and his own development (see Wagstaff last season) it was better he wasn't played this season gone. As for next season, give him a go in pre-season again, then send him on loan at the beginning of the season preferably to a Blue Square South/League Two club. If he starts banging them in, then put him on the bench upon his return, but at the moment it would be unfair on the lad to put him into the high pressure environment of early season games without some kind of form behind him