I found this which is pretty in line with my feelings. A few inaccuracies in terms of actual facts and I don't believe that they were as close to the writers as they make out. That being said, as an explanation for the plot etc I 90% agree,
It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.
Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet every time he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.
Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interfered by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.
Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Candidates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Candidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposely not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blatant.
Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.
In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...
Now...
Sideways World:
Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us doing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduism with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.
The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spiritual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.
It's a really cool and spiritual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character back-story, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.
How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosaic.
But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.
They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the church -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's partner, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).
A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to atone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.
But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.
In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spiritual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once wavered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.
I think that's a pretty damn good post WSS. There are a couple of things in there that I'm not sure about (Dharma being one of them), but the explanation of Ben, Miles, Lapidus etc. not being in the church at 'the end' put very well into words what I would have found it otherwise difficult to express. My favourite TV show ever. It polarizes opinions (my wife cannot stand it, and takes the piss out of me for being so into it - especially since I deliberately avoided it until the beginning of last year (which I still think was the best thing I could have done with it)) - but if you 'get' it, then I think the show has been a profoundly fantastic experience for you. I can't believe it's over - and even though I'll watch it all again, start to finish, probably at least twice, I'm a bit sad to realise that I'll never again have the anticipation of looking forward to another episode of 'Lost' with that sense of wonder again.
[cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]I found this which is pretty in line with my feelings. A few inaccuracies in terms of actual facts and I don't believe that they were as close to the writers as they make out. That being said, as an explanation for the plot etc I 90% agree,
It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.
But is isn't the real world, on the island there wasn't just a little bit of suspension of disbelief needed, you have to go with the whole 'This is a special place' story.
Its up to you as a viewer what you believe, but to sell it as they were still alive, you have to accept Time Travel, people coming back to life, magic healing, imortality, visions, shifting islands, smoke monsters and beech craft aircraft ending up in the middle of pacific well beyond it range.
I suppose when people watch it all back, many more holes could be picked in that explanation!
Freethinker, I think if you can accept it is a fictional story first and foremost then you can accept some of the weirdness. After all a lot of the stuff gets claimed and talked about in the real world, it's just been amplified in Lost. There are plenty of mysteries in our world and lives that we'll never get answers to and it turns out the characters in the show also didn't get a lot of answers. They did however get a lot of answers to their own personal demons hence moving on together.
[cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]I found this which is pretty in line with my feelings. A few inaccuracies in terms of actual facts and I don't believe that they were as close to the writers as they make out. That being said, as an explanation for the plot etc I 90% agree,
It does indeed "I'm already dead" although I interpret that as his injuries etc. Still think there is overwhelming evidence, especially with Christian Shephard's scene at the end, that that was the only place where they were 'dead'. In the end you believe what you are comfortable with, that's the beauty of the whole show.
Charlie died when drowning
Sayid died when he ran with the bomb
Sun and Jin died in the sub
Libby died when Michael shot her
Jack died as a result of the stab wounds
Hurley and Ben died sometime in the future, maybe hundreds of years later, god knows how Sawyer, Kate, Desmond etc died-we'll never know.
The place they went was a waiting area where time did not exist so it is/was irrelevant when anyone died, they just needed each other to "move on". How they 'created' this weird take on purgatory I don't have a clue but I am convinced that 'Whatever Happened, Happened' and when we saw them die in the series, thats when they died - not before, not after.
[cite]Posted By: FreeThinker[/cite]The conversation between Jack and Hume before they go into the tunnel of light. Puts both sides!
[cite]Posted By: Donvito[/cite]please can we have a simple answer.. Were they really all dead all the time or what sorry wss not sure what you really mean
If you go with what Jack Sheppherd said, they were kind of alive and what happened on the island mattered
If you go with what Desmond Hume said, nothing on the Island mattered and everyone was in a place waiting for jack to snap out of it. i.e they were dead from the plane crash
But if that was the case FT, and they died in the plane crash, how would they even know each other in the first place. Let alone have all of those experiences.
How could they be connected emotionally and be important to each other (as Christian says)?
I also think island Desmond was a bit confused, I don't think he thought in the 'other reality' they were dead, I think he thought that it was just an alternative timeline. He bodged that up!
Eloise and Desmond and funny characters though, still not sure why they are 'special'.
[cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]But if that was the case FT, and they died in the plane crash, how would they even know each other in the first place. Let alone have all of those experiences.
How could they be connected emotionally and be important to each other (as Christian says)?
That puts a lot of stock in a line or two from CS, but means taking what Desmond says as wrong. Who was more pivotal in Season 6?
Definitely everything on the island (and off the island in flashbacks & flashforwards) happened. They weren't dead (though some of them died on the island, like Libby, Sun, Jin & Charlie) during the 'main' timeline - but the alternate timeline in the last season was a place where they all met up after they died - a place where they could all be happy and sage until they 'let go'. There was no 'time' during this - the whole concept of 'time' didn't apply in the sideways world as it was there for them to meet up and 'move on' (I guess to heaven, or valhalla, or nirvana or whatever you want to call it)
I think Eloise and Desmond were always meant to be weird characters - they were more 'aware' of things throughout the series.
Personally, I would have liked more explanation of the whole egyptian/ancient civilisation thing - I think its the one thing that was missing (apart from an Ilana flashback!), but I guess they had to fit too much in this season and couldn't get the time or budget to do that.
All in all, its the best experience I've ever had watching television. Nothing could ever be as good again.
[cite]Posted By: ThreadKiller[/cite]why was it implied that christian shepherd was working upstairs when jack was smashed out of his head when working at the hospital?
Jack said that himself - no-one else did. He was f***ed up on Oxycodone at the time - he said a LOT of shit that made no sense.
[cite]Posted By: The Red Robin[/cite]Agree with most of the first WSS post except the bit about the island being real. I'd say the island is just them in limbo.
Despite the fact that Christian quite clearly said to Jack, five minutes before the show ended, that everything that happened on the island was real?
[cite]Posted By: The Red Robin[/cite]Agree with most of the first WSS post except the bit about the island being real. I'd say the island is just them in limbo.
Despite the fact that Christian quite clearly said to Jack, five minutes before the show ended, that everything that happened on the island was real?
Not just on the Island, everyhing that happened was real, even the flash sideways. He pointedly didn't say your were alive on the island! He did make Jack realise he was dead!
[cite]Posted By: The Red Robin[/cite]Agree with most of the first WSS post except the bit about the island being real. I'd say the island is just them in limbo.
Despite the fact that Christian quite clearly said to Jack, five minutes before the show ended, that everything that happened on the island was real?
Not just on the Island, everyhing that happened was real, even the flash sideways. He pointedly didn't say your were alive on the island! He did make Jack realise he was dead!
...but Jack's dad did say that some of those in the church died "many, many years" after Jack, so they couldn't have all died in the crash. The conversation between Hurley & Ben outside before the church ("You were a good number 2", etc) confirms the island timeline continued further than Jack's death.
It was a shame they spend so much airtime on the flash sideways/afterlife and not more explaining the Egyptian stuff. But then the characters themselves never knew the truth about that - maybe not even Jacob. You have to assume that Jacob/MiB's "mother" was the last of that ancient line.
All in all, the best TV series there has ever been, by miles. There were a few bloopers/mistakes (who finished building the wheel? why didn't the explosive-rigged plane explode?), but generally for something so vast in it's scope & ambition it was done amazingly well.
Comments
It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.
Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet every time he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.
Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interfered by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.
Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Candidates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Candidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposely not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blatant.
Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.
In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...
Now...
Sideways World:
Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us doing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduism with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.
The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spiritual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.
It's a really cool and spiritual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character back-story, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.
How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosaic.
But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.
They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the church -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's partner, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).
A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to atone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.
But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.
In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spiritual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once wavered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.
;-D
But is isn't the real world, on the island there wasn't just a little bit of suspension of disbelief needed, you have to go with the whole 'This is a special place' story.
Its up to you as a viewer what you believe, but to sell it as they were still alive, you have to accept Time Travel, people coming back to life, magic healing, imortality, visions, shifting islands, smoke monsters and beech craft aircraft ending up in the middle of pacific well beyond it range.
I suppose when people watch it all back, many more holes could be picked in that explanation!
Freethinker, I think if you can accept it is a fictional story first and foremost then you can accept some of the weirdness. After all a lot of the stuff gets claimed and talked about in the real world, it's just been amplified in Lost. There are plenty of mysteries in our world and lives that we'll never get answers to and it turns out the characters in the show also didn't get a lot of answers. They did however get a lot of answers to their own personal demons hence moving on together.
Yep, I'm with you on that one brother.
Who cares, lots of people enjoyed this show, myself included. I can't see why you need to make such a comment?
Charlie died when drowning
Sayid died when he ran with the bomb
Sun and Jin died in the sub
Libby died when Michael shot her
Jack died as a result of the stab wounds
Hurley and Ben died sometime in the future, maybe hundreds of years later, god knows how Sawyer, Kate, Desmond etc died-we'll never know.
The place they went was a waiting area where time did not exist so it is/was irrelevant when anyone died, they just needed each other to "move on". How they 'created' this weird take on purgatory I don't have a clue but I am convinced that 'Whatever Happened, Happened' and when we saw them die in the series, thats when they died - not before, not after.
If you go with what Jack Sheppherd said, they were kind of alive and what happened on the island mattered
If you go with what Desmond Hume said, nothing on the Island mattered and everyone was in a place waiting for jack to snap out of it. i.e they were dead from the plane crash
How could they be connected emotionally and be important to each other (as Christian says)?
I also think island Desmond was a bit confused, I don't think he thought in the 'other reality' they were dead, I think he thought that it was just an alternative timeline. He bodged that up!
Eloise and Desmond and funny characters though, still not sure why they are 'special'.
That puts a lot of stock in a line or two from CS, but means taking what Desmond says as wrong. Who was more pivotal in Season 6?
Its written so you can believe either way.
I think Eloise and Desmond were always meant to be weird characters - they were more 'aware' of things throughout the series.
Personally, I would have liked more explanation of the whole egyptian/ancient civilisation thing - I think its the one thing that was missing (apart from an Ilana flashback!), but I guess they had to fit too much in this season and couldn't get the time or budget to do that.
All in all, its the best experience I've ever had watching television. Nothing could ever be as good again.
Also - Where's Echo and Walt?
Not just on the Island, everyhing that happened was real, even the flash sideways. He pointedly didn't say your were alive on the island! He did make Jack realise he was dead!
...but Jack's dad did say that some of those in the church died "many, many years" after Jack, so they couldn't have all died in the crash.
It was a shame they spend so much airtime on the flash sideways/afterlife and not more explaining the Egyptian stuff. But then the characters themselves never knew the truth about that - maybe not even Jacob. You have to assume that Jacob/MiB's "mother" was the last of that ancient line.
All in all, the best TV series there has ever been, by miles. There were a few bloopers/mistakes (who finished building the wheel? why didn't the explosive-rigged plane explode?), but generally for something so vast in it's scope & ambition it was done amazingly well.
*He was one of the pilots from 815 don't you know*
Just watched the last three back to back.
Absolutely no cure for jetlag whatsoever!!!!!