From the sounds of it Wagstaff didn't have a great game, still not sure he's ready to be starting. For all his energy and directness he doesn't create much compared to an on form Sam. Problem is, with Sam not playing well, he doesn't really deserve a place in the team.
Good result, wasn't there, but I'm encouraged by reports of us showing some defensive solidity again BUT it doesn't sound like Hudds played particularly well themselves although that's a bit of a chicken and egg situation. I'm still concerned that we're not getting closer to the opposition's goal though, it's all very well being hard to beat (if we really are that, since Christmas this is probably the first game we've stiffled the opposition properly) but to be a winning side you need to be able to reguarly nick goals at the other end and even with a poacher like Forster in the team we need to be carving out more than 3 half chances a game to give ourselves a decent chance of getting those goals.
[cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]From the sounds of it Wagstaff didn't have a great game, still not sure he's ready to be starting. For all his energy and directness he doesn't create much compared to an on form Sam. Problem is, with Sam not playing well, he doesn't really deserve a place in the team.
I find myself asking what Waggy brings to the table.
He hasn't got a trick and from what I've seen he can't cross a ball - so not really a "winger" as I understand it.
On that basis hardly merits a place in the team as a creative player
We know he has pace to burn and a cool finish, hence his best moments as an impact sub.
Probably needs to add more to his game IMO, as I get the impression he'll only start games because Sam is failing to deliver/needs a kick up the arse.
Back-up player for me, albeit still young enough to develop
one shot from two away games is hardly inspiring but if we can just become good we might have a chance ......
i'm sure it's a coincidence but a different keeper(one who can catch) sounds like he brought more stability to what had become a joke back 5 in recent times... come on the handy randy take your opportunity!
[cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]From the sounds of it Wagstaff didn't have a great game, still not sure he's ready to be starting. For all his energy and directness he doesn't create much compared to an on form Sam. Problem is, with Sam not playing well, he doesn't really deserve a place in the team.
I find myself asking what Waggy brings to the table.
He hasn't got a trick and from what I've seen he can't cross a ball - so not really a "winger" as I understand it.
On that basis hardly merits a place in the team as a creative player
We know he has pace to burn and a cool finish, hence his best moments as an impact sub.
Probably needs to add more to his game IMO, as I get the impression he'll only start games because Sam is failing to deliver/needs a kick up the arse.
Back-up player for me, albeit still young enough to develop
I agree, he's all about energy, closing down, making runs, getting in the box and as he's shown this season, he can also finish. Still makes a lot of mistakes when he starts, and like you say isn't a great crosser nor does he have skill/tricks or really quick feet.
He'll never be that sort of player, but if he develops well with experience he'll hopefully have more effect on games similarly to the way John Robinson could. He wasn't a skillful or exciting winger, but he knew his job well. People moan about Sam's decision making, but it's an area Wagstaff really lacks at the moment. He can get away with that when there's space and tired defenders. I can see him developing that though as he's got the attitude to do it.
[cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]From the sounds of it Wagstaff didn't have a great game, still not sure he's ready to be starting. For all his energy and directness he doesn't create much compared to an on form Sam.
Problem is, with Sam not playing well, he doesn't really deserve a place in the team.
But what Sam does, even if he's not having a lot of impact on the game - is get double marked, taking 2 of their players out of the game.
That in effect should give us an extra man, creating space and time on the ball to be exploited by Charlton.
The fact that we rarely seem to take advantage, should beg the question.
"Huddersfield, looking for a first win of the season against a top-six side ......" - it's not just us then!
"Therry Racon started pulling the strings in midfield as Charlton got on top and it was no surprise when Reid levelled."
Racon's not really been that effective lately - so that's good to read.
"...... and Lee Peltier's bad two-footed lunge on Racon which only yielded a yellow card."
Inconsistant refereeing yet again.
[cite]Posted By: Six-a-bag-of-nuts[/cite]
I find myself asking what Waggy brings to the table.
He hasn't got a trick and from what I've seen he can't cross a ball - so not really a "winger" as I understand it.
On that basis hardly merits a place in the team as a creative player
We know he has pace to burn and a cool finish, hence his best moments as an impact sub.
Probably needs to add more to his game IMO, as I get the impression he'll only start games because Sam is failing to deliver/needs a kick up the arse.
Back-up player for me, albeit still young enough to develop
Have to say, I've been distinctly underwhelmed by most of what I've seen from Wagstaff. He's a young lad I think Scoham is right, if he ever makes it it'll be as a Johnny Robinson style disciplined, hardworking winger with a goal or two in him. If I had to make a prediction though, I'd say Waggy will be a League 1/2 player for most of his career. I certainly don't see what people who want him in instead of Sam do - he's harder working, but it's headless chicken stuff often chasing shadows and Sam is a fairly hardworking winger himself so Waggy needs to add more to his game if he wants to take the right wing spot permanently, imo. Fortunately he has time on his side but at current he's no real competition for Sam imo, even when Sam is a bit out of form. Having said that, Sam had one of his better games against Gills so I think would have started yesterday if he hadn't picked up a knock.
[cite]Posted By: Exiled_Addick[/cite]He's a young lad I think Scoham is right, if he ever makes it it'll be as a Johnny Robinson style disciplined, hardworking winger with a goal or two in him. If I had to make a prediction though, I'd say Waggy will be a League 1/2 player for most of his career.
That's the thing, if he can push himself, develop some consistency and get the most out of his ability like Robinson did he could get to the Championship. It won't be through natural skill and technical ability so much, but if he can read the game better and know his limitations, along with his energy he could be a decent player, but if like you say he just keeps doing the "headless chicken" stuff he won't get to that level.
Someone like Park perhaps isn't good enough for Man Utd, but mainly because of his drive and stamina, he can make up for his weaknesses and is a useful squad player for them.
I'm not writing him off Scoh and you'll get nowhere in football without work rate, unless you're very gifted, so he's got a chance. If anything he's too enthusiatic at times. That said, Robbo had much more about him than just work rate and if Waggy gets near his standard we'll have a very good player. Like I say though, based on what I've seen I'm not convinced he'll develop into a Championship player, at least not until later in his career when he'll hopefully develop some street smarts. Hope he proves me wrong though, obviously.
Oh no didn't mean it to sound like I thought you were. I didn't rate him at all a year ago, though that was partly down to never seeing what he was all about. Whenever he had played he just didn't do a lot. Now he's scoring goals, winning the odd free kick etc. I agree he can be too enthusiastic at times and that's what I was tlaking about when it comes to his reading of the game, decision making etc.
I do agree he has a long way to go. He's progressed well this season, like you say he might not be a Championship player until later on his career. I see the same with Mambo, there might be a decent player there but both of them might have a few seasons just gaining experience before they really push on.
I wouldn't want him starting in the Championship if we go up, ideally we'd probably get a better right winger in and get him out on loan for a proper run of games at League One level.
christ almighty you lot piss me off i would rather watch a 19 year old give everything he has got than Sam who is a lazy barsteward he isn't making the most of his talent,he is one lazy tosser.
in an ideal world steve the player giving his all would make a bigger difference to us but imo we have some really poor 'give it their all' players and some talented ones who the management fail to get the best out of and even at lazy barsteward pace sam imo is gonna make more of a difference than the huffer and puffer
Sam isn't lazy. The way he plays and the type of player might make him look lazy, watch him closely and you'll see he's not. He doesn't make the runs Wagstaff does, but that's a weakness of his game, movement isn't something he's good at. Wagstaff's probably a lot fitter and does more closing down, but Sam defends better.
We would most likely not be in the play-off positions if Wagstaff started every game. He works hard but you need more than effort and charging around to be a good player.
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]in an ideal world steve the player giving his all would make a bigger difference to us but imo we have some really poor 'give it their all' players and some talented ones who the management fail to get the best out of and even at lazy barsteward pace sam imo is gonna make more of a difference than the huffer and puffer
Who else would you include in that just out of interest? Guessing Llera is one that gives his all, Racon one of the talented that we don't get the best out of?
[cite]Posted By: northstandsteve[/cite]trouble is mate he has had 38 games to do it and still hasn't performed
Not for a lot of the season but to say he hasn't performed isn't true. He's got 8 assists in the league and 4 goals (fair enough he's been stuck on those for a while now). First half of the season he was far more important to us than people gave him credit for. Reid came in and took some of that pressure off, but instead of improving he's gone on a poor run of form. He is talented but I don't think he's so good that he'd walk this league.
when we took john robinson we had just lost Robert Lee, people didn't give robbo a lot of support or time,just look what hard work and positive attitude achieved robbo was 21 at the time he joined waggy is a lot younger,people need to take a reality check,this is our level and the sooner we can get players with that work ethic the sooner as a club we will progress.Are you lot saying that Lloyd Sam is more talented than Ben Hackett or Danny Scholfield,maybe he is but he aint got their attitude and that is why our season is dying a death.
Erm I've been saying in my last few posts before you called Sam lazy that Wagstaff could develop into a good player. I'd actually say Sam's a good but inconsistent player at this level and nothing special in the Championship, haven't said he's a brilliant player or denied that he's had a lot of poor and average games.
Yes if Sam had more drive about him he'd be a better player, but to say he hasn't performed at all isn't true either. Effort is fine and although Wagstaff could be a good player one day, he's not ready to be starting every week just yet, and there are plenty of people that have said the same thing. Like Sam, Wagstaff's had some poor and quiet performances when starting. That's fine, he is young and needs time, I just can't agree he should start purely because he runs around more than Sam does.
scoham.... the not so good tryer's robbie elliot, basey, llera,akpo sodje,wagstaff......
recently richardson and bailey have underperformed from a decent start to the season but both try so hard
on the flip side i think semedo has improved recently ( i have never rated him tho) but the upper echelons of this league are about right for him
i'd only consider sam a talented underperformer, i've never rated the show pony racon
with our ability to get the worst out of most players atm i'm not holding out much hope for anyone coming thru and developing into the next johnny robinson
[cite]Posted By: northstandsteve[/cite]mate you and me have seen the shite times and unfortunately these are the shitest
totally agree steve but dare point it out and moan about how bad it is(on a charlton forum) and you'll be accused of enjoying us losing by the rose tinted posse .....
in the ground is where the support matters and i'm sure you like me get behind em as much as you can even though it's pretty painful but we are CHARLTON TILL WE DIE
Comments
I find myself asking what Waggy brings to the table.
He hasn't got a trick and from what I've seen he can't cross a ball - so not really a "winger" as I understand it.
On that basis hardly merits a place in the team as a creative player
We know he has pace to burn and a cool finish, hence his best moments as an impact sub.
Probably needs to add more to his game IMO, as I get the impression he'll only start games because Sam is failing to deliver/needs a kick up the arse.
Back-up player for me, albeit still young enough to develop
They scored, hit the bar and had two VERY near misses.
We played well, yes, better, yes, to say we stiffled them would going a bit too far imo
i'm sure it's a coincidence but a different keeper(one who can catch) sounds like he brought more stability to what had become a joke back 5 in recent times... come on the handy randy take your opportunity!
Leeds v Swindon next week, MK is a must win.
He'll never be that sort of player, but if he develops well with experience he'll hopefully have more effect on games similarly to the way John Robinson could. He wasn't a skillful or exciting winger, but he knew his job well. People moan about Sam's decision making, but it's an area Wagstaff really lacks at the moment. He can get away with that when there's space and tired defenders. I can see him developing that though as he's got the attitude to do it.
did parky get any stick from the hudders fans???
But what Sam does, even if he's not having a lot of impact on the game - is get double marked, taking 2 of their players out of the game.
That in effect should give us an extra man, creating space and time on the ball to be exploited by Charlton.
The fact that we rarely seem to take advantage, should beg the question.
"Huddersfield, looking for a first win of the season against a top-six side ......" - it's not just us then!
"Therry Racon started pulling the strings in midfield as Charlton got on top and it was no surprise when Reid levelled."
Racon's not really been that effective lately - so that's good to read.
"...... and Lee Peltier's bad two-footed lunge on Racon which only yielded a yellow card."
Inconsistant refereeing yet again.
Have to say, I've been distinctly underwhelmed by most of what I've seen from Wagstaff. He's a young lad I think Scoham is right, if he ever makes it it'll be as a Johnny Robinson style disciplined, hardworking winger with a goal or two in him. If I had to make a prediction though, I'd say Waggy will be a League 1/2 player for most of his career. I certainly don't see what people who want him in instead of Sam do - he's harder working, but it's headless chicken stuff often chasing shadows and Sam is a fairly hardworking winger himself so Waggy needs to add more to his game if he wants to take the right wing spot permanently, imo. Fortunately he has time on his side but at current he's no real competition for Sam imo, even when Sam is a bit out of form. Having said that, Sam had one of his better games against Gills so I think would have started yesterday if he hadn't picked up a knock.
Someone like Park perhaps isn't good enough for Man Utd, but mainly because of his drive and stamina, he can make up for his weaknesses and is a useful squad player for them.
I do agree he has a long way to go. He's progressed well this season, like you say he might not be a Championship player until later on his career. I see the same with Mambo, there might be a decent player there but both of them might have a few seasons just gaining experience before they really push on.
I wouldn't want him starting in the Championship if we go up, ideally we'd probably get a better right winger in and get him out on loan for a proper run of games at League One level.
We would most likely not be in the play-off positions if Wagstaff started every game. He works hard but you need more than effort and charging around to be a good player.
Who else would you include in that just out of interest? Guessing Llera is one that gives his all, Racon one of the talented that we don't get the best out of?
Yes if Sam had more drive about him he'd be a better player, but to say he hasn't performed at all isn't true either. Effort is fine and although Wagstaff could be a good player one day, he's not ready to be starting every week just yet, and there are plenty of people that have said the same thing. Like Sam, Wagstaff's had some poor and quiet performances when starting. That's fine, he is young and needs time, I just can't agree he should start purely because he runs around more than Sam does.
recently richardson and bailey have underperformed from a decent start to the season but both try so hard
on the flip side i think semedo has improved recently ( i have never rated him tho) but the upper echelons of this league are about right for him
i'd only consider sam a talented underperformer, i've never rated the show pony racon
Hudds are the joint top scorers at home in this league and have only lost once.
We limited them to 1 decent chance / goal.
Their effort that hit the top of the bar, was never going in.
Their fans should be disappointed not ours.
They were at home and had to win. It was up to them to take the game to us. They didn't and a lot of that was down to us being solid.
Dailly was my MOM.
Randolph 7 - played well, calm and composed
Richardson 7 - Best game for months
Borrowdale 6 - Not as good as previous
Dailly 8 - Commanding captain's performance, (except for one rugby tackle )
Sodje 7 Good game
Wagstaff 5 Didn't get involved and when he did he and his crossing was very poor (couldn't even keep it on the field)
Racon 6 Decent game
Semedo 6.5 Good game
Reid 7.5 Good game, excellent goal
Mooney 6 Worked hard with little success ,too easily brushed aside at times
Forster 6 Worked hard
Most disappointing bit was as cafc_se7 said yesterday and the booing/ criticism of a group of 30 or so, who have it in for Mooney & Parky.
It may have been me who cafc_se7 referred to as telling them to shut up.
I wish they'd bore off. If you can't support the team then please keep quiet, you are undermining our chances of promotion IMO.
totally agree steve but dare point it out and moan about how bad it is(on a charlton forum) and you'll be accused of enjoying us losing by the rose tinted posse .....
in the ground is where the support matters and i'm sure you like me get behind em as much as you can even though it's pretty painful but we are CHARLTON TILL WE DIE