Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

Are we just not good enough?

edited March 2010 in General Charlton
Games against the rest of the top 6 teams this season:

Norwich (A) 2-2
Leeds (A) 0-0
Colchester (A) 0-3
Millwall (H) 4-4; (A) 0-4
Swindon (H) 2-2; (A) 1-1

I know people will say some of these are "good points" and most have been away from home but I would expect us to win at least one of these and take more than 5 points out of a possible 21 against these teams.
«1

Comments

  • We got the individual players to get out perhaps with the exception of up front but we don't have the team or the right management to do it in my opinion.
  • i think you'll find it was 2-2 at Norwich.........after we were 2-0 up
  • edited March 2010
    [cite]Posted By: GRAY9[/cite]Games against the rest of the top 6 teams this season:

    Norwich (A) 1-1
    Leeds (A) 0-0
    Colchester (A) 0-3
    Millwall (H) 4-4; (A) 0-4
    Swindon (H) 2-2; (A) 1-1

    I know people will say some of these are "good points" and most have been away from home but I would expect us to win at least one of these and take more than 5 points out of a possible 21 against these teams.

    Stats can work both ways, we had 9 men at home against Swindon and would've won easily with 11 men, a draw away at Swindon where Leeds had just lost 3-0 was a good result. We drew away to the top 2 where any team would've taken a point. There's no defending Colchester/Millwall away though.

    It's not only what you do against the top clubs though, Millwall can beat the top sides but then lose home and away to Wycombe, it's overall that counts. Arsenal may well win the league despite taking 0 points from 12 against Chelsea and Man U.
  • 5 draws and 2 away defeats, albeit hefty ones, doesn't prove much one way or the other. If we win 2 and draw one of the home games, one could conclude that we are about the same as the others. The league table doesn't lie - Norwich seem a cut above, scoring freely. The rest of the top 8-10 seem to be very patchy and 'average'.
  • At the start of the season for 10 games or so we had consistency ... and a consistent match-day squad.

    Since then injuries etc have kicked in and the team has not re-found its balance (e.g. Racon and Semedo were a great combination).

    Not sure if Parky is able to motivate them enough to get the consistency back.
  • In all honesty as much as those results do not look impressive, I equally concerned that we have not beat Tranmere, Oldham, Brighton and Orient at home. Norwich have beaten all these sides at home and I think Leeds won 3 of 4. Even a couple of wins for us would have placed us in the top 2.
  • [cite]Posted By: cafcdan18[/cite]In all honesty as much as those results do not look impressive, I equally concerned that we have not beat Tranmere, Oldham, Brighton and Orient at home. Norwich have beaten all these sides at home and I think Leeds won 3 of 4. Even a couple of wins for us would have placed us in the top 2.

    You've nailed it.

    Those are the matches that have done for us not Saturday.
  • [cite]Posted By: cafcdan18[/cite]... we have not beat Tranmere, Oldham, Brighton and Orient at home.

    10 points lost
  • I'm thinking more about the play offs and that we are struggling to beat the better teams in the division so would equally struggle in the play offs. I agree with some of the points above re: consistency in the team and each game is worth 3 points whoever you play but I honestly can't see us winning 2 and drawing 1 of the home games.
  • I think we have become too used to being underdogs in the Premiership. A draw at Everton seemed like a big deal and was appreciated - and, so it should have been.

    In League 1, there are no great teams like MU, Chelsea etc. that can almost always brush aside the inferior opposition. I suspect that all the top sides have some bad results over the season. We just chose (arguably) the worst game to get our biggest defeat.

    Many predicted that we would end in mid-table this season and we are comfortably above that. We are no longer playing Premiership football where good standard professionals when organised well can nick points and occasionally turn over decent sides. We are now playing in league 1 in which every team has some weaknesses and results are going to be more inconsistent. Yes, Saturday sounded like a debacle - at least from the 44th minute - but it's a fairly rubbishy division in which we can't expect to lord it.

    We just have to hope we can clamber out and play a much more decent level with better players in the side.
  • Sponsored links:


  • I don't think the players are individually quite as good as we think. We say how good the midfield are, but we don't have a central midfield pairing that can control a game. They've only looked like doing that in a 451. As dabos said in another thread, none of them are good at positioning themselves, which is one of those things that isn't always obvious. The midfield are talented but not above this league.

    Up front we very average. We don't have any natural goalscorers, just a good footballer in Burton.

    Defensively we have a standard top 6 League One defence. Nothing special, can do their job but on a bad day look terrible.

    Out wide Sam is good with confidence, very quiet without. Reid doesn't seem as effected by confidence as Sam, but his end product isn't reliable. Wagstaff still isn't ready to start regularly.

    I think with this squad and its weaknesses third is a good season, but that's only from looking at the league table. Performances haven't been as good as we'd like and we look like we are about to drop down the table. I still think are managers out there that could have had a worse season with this squad, and only a very few that would have done better when it comes to results and points.
  • I think another (not very popular) way to look at it is that Parky has got a very average side to perform very well this season. If you think we have been in the top 4 or 5 all season with a group of player which are mainly quite an average bunch, maybe this has raised our expectations to a level which doesn;t match the ability of the players we have.

    If you think he didn't spend a penny on improving a team which were woeful last season suddenly some of the results we've had this season don't look too surprising.

    I look at our side and when they are all on form they're a very competitive team but not a massively talented one. We have a couple of good players with a hard working core around them.

    You also have to remember that the club had had an aura of abject failure around it for a long time now. Breaking out of that mentality can be really hard.
  • [cite]Posted By: ChrisWhytesBaldhead[/cite]I think another (not very popular) way to look at it is that Parky has got a very average side to perform very well this season. If you think we have been in the top 4 or 5 all season with a group of player which are mainly quite an average bunch, maybe this has raised our expectations to a level which doesn;t match the ability of the players we have.

    If you think he didn't spend a penny on improving a team which were woeful last season suddenly some of the results we've had this season don't look too surprising.

    I look at our side and when they are all on form they're a very competitive team but not a massively talented one. We have a couple of good players with a hard working core around them.

    You also have to remember that the club had had an aura of abject failure around it for a long time now. Breaking out of that mentality can be really hard.
    I think that you have got it spot on CWB.
  • Of course results matter but in all honesty our performances for months have been very unimpressive to put it kindly. Not the best squad in the division but probably one of the top three squads. I know that I will be reminded that 3rd is exactly where we sit but with the right coach and tactics we could be sitting better than that 3rd spot. We have dropped some points at The Valley to pretty awful sides and therein lies the problem. Instead of hitting our stride for the last 10 games we are all aware that we have not seen a commanding performance for months now and I have little confidence that PP can get it right in time for this season or indeed ever. Imho promotion is laughable the way we are playing and the consequences for this failure will impact for years. Henry Irving rightly always says that PP should be judged in may not now and it is hard to argue against that but I see nothing to commend the man at the moment.
  • [cite]Posted By: ShootersHillGuru[/cite]I know that I will be reminded that 3rd is exactly where we sit but with the right coach and tactics we could be sitting better than that 3rd spot.
    Getting that right man isn't easy though. If it was, Leeds would have been promoted two years ago, or at the very least, top of the league now.
  • at the moment we aint good enough but if parky sorts out a left back and puts the right side out with players who play in their positions and stops f--k arsing about with the team then we should be ok for the play offs shelvey must come back thats got to be a definate .
  • [cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: ShootersHillGuru[/cite]I know that I will be reminded that 3rd is exactly where we sit but with the right coach and tactics we could be sitting better than that 3rd spot.
    Getting that right man isn't easy though. If it was, Leeds would have been promoted two years ago, or at the very least, top of the league now.

    Agreed but I think that when its obvious that you have the wrong man in situ there can be no alternative but to try someone who might get it right. Admitedly finding that needle in a haystack is not easy but why stick with proven rubbish ?
  • As said I think we should judge him in May and go from there. He's not a great manager but there are far worse out there. Sometimes you end up replacing rubbish with something even worse. If we stay down, get a new manager in who really hasn't got a clue, he could end up rebuilding a squad that end up fighting relegation. Look how Bradford ended up in League Two.

    For me it just won't be a clear decision for the board, because of the risk you could just make things worse. The fans that wanted Curbishley out assumed a new manager would do as well as him at the very least.
  • [cite]Posted By: Red_Pete[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: ChrisWhytesBaldhead[/cite]I think another (not very popular) way to look at it is that Parky has got a very average side to perform very well this season. If you think we have been in the top 4 or 5 all season with a group of player which are mainly quite an average bunch, maybe this has raised our expectations to a level which doesn;t match the ability of the players we have.

    If you think he didn't spend a penny on improving a team which were woeful last season suddenly some of the results we've had this season don't look too surprising.

    I look at our side and when they are all on form they're a very competitive team but not a massively talented one. We have a couple of good players with a hard working core around them.

    You also have to remember that the club had had an aura of abject failure around it for a long time now. Breaking out of that mentality can be really hard.
    I think that you have got it spot on CWB.

    Its unpopular , but i think tis true....

    in answer to the original poster, we arent really good enough and yet, we are still where we are .....
  • And if the internet had existed in the early to mid 90s. how much clamour would there have been to replace Curbs, as we bumped along in mid table div 2? Even worse, the first time we did manage the play-offs in 96, we lost to Palarse. These days that would defintiely be a sackable offence.
  • Sponsored links:


  • I think we have the players, short on strikers yes but we still have the players to go up. What we need is the right management team!
  • [cite]Posted By: D_F_T[/cite]I think we have the players, short on strikers yes but we still have the players to go up. What we need is the right management team!
    Short on strikers, on left full backs, on left wingers & on centre halves!! And our much lauded midfield is basically the same midfield that failed so spectacularly last year. I doubt that ANY management team could do much better with the players we curently have.
  • Poor old shelvy. What's he got to do to break into this cack midfield that people suddenly don't like?
  • [cite]Posted By: Red_Pete[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: D_F_T[/cite]I think we have the players, short on strikers yes but we still have the players to go up. What we need is the right management team!
    Short on strikers, on left full backs, on left wingers & on centre halves!! And our much lauded midfield is basically the same midfield that failed so spectacularly last year. I doubt that ANY management team could do much better with the players we curently have.
    Exactly that. Performance wise yes we should be doing better, results though we're where we should be with our squad. It has far more weaknesses than we seem to realise or want to admit.
  • edited March 2010
    I'd answer this question by pointing out that we presently have on loan two strikers whom are not good enough to play in teams that have hovered in and around the relegation zone all season in the division we aspire to be.

    No we are not good enough. Parky has done what he can to attract players in adverse circumstances. The only criticism I would level at him is that he should be playing Jonjo rather than the erratic Racon but others I'm sure will disagree with me.
  • [cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]The only criticism I would level at him is that he should be playing Jonjo rather than the erratic Racon but others I'm sure will disagree with me.
    I'd add Burton to that as well, if he's fit enough.
  • At first thought I would say we have better individuals (in some positions) but do not have a cohesive team. I think Parky has had a problem finding the right players to fill our obvious weaknesses. Looking at some of the other teams - Leeds, Millwall have had time to gell their sides. Both were playoff teams last year. Swindon have a stable side and got lucky with a non-league striker who came good. Even Huddersfield have a settled side and have improved on last year. Norwich who i had down to finish second at the start of the season have always had the quality in depth to do well. However Colchester were an average team last year and I am surprised by their success.

    We are not doing badly I mean we are third but I think for us a lot of these games hinge on whether we get the first goal or not. Our biggest problem is we do not have an out and out goalscorer. Parky has had to look at loan options within his limited budget. Mooney and Akpo Sodje in my opinion both had promising first spells at the club. Enough for Parky to think they could do a decent job. Burton is the best striker we have but he is not a goalscorer and has also struggled with ongoing injuries. McCleod and Dickson both have potential but i'm afraid the attitude is wrong. Not sure what happened to Tuna, is he injured?

    Another possible factor is how many of our players have proven themselves successfully over a full season? The remaining regulars from last year helped to get us relegated so apart from Bailey no one is in credit. In defence we do have that experience but that is undone by age, injuries and not being very good (Llera). Apart from Bailey, can anyone name a regular in our midfield who has played through a whole season and kept his form. My point is that I think we do have some good individuals but at this stage of the season they are unproven.
  • Tuna's been out on 'work experience' loans, but unfortunately hasn't actually played that much. I think we'll see a lot more of him next season if we stay down.
  • Individualy are players are mediocre third division players with poor individual skill levels, who can on occasion raise their game but can not maintain those higher levels game in game out. I predicted position 14-16 at the start of the season and though tey will end above this it is not a bad estimate of there abilities. At the start of the season too many teams treated are team with to much respect and allowed them to olay, this explains the flying start we got.
  • [cite]Posted By: ChrisWhytesBaldhead[/cite]I think another (not very popular) way to look at it is that Parky has got a very average side to perform very well this season. If you think we have been in the top 4 or 5 all season with a group of player which are mainly quite an average bunch, maybe this has raised our expectations to a level which doesn;t match the ability of the players we have.

    If you think he didn't spend a penny on improving a team which were woeful last season suddenly some of the results we've had this season don't look too surprising.

    I look at our side and when they are all on form they're a very competitive team but not a massively talented one. We have a couple of good players with a hard working core around them.

    You also have to remember that the club had had an aura of abject failure around it for a long time now. Breaking out of that mentality can be really hard.

    Have to agree with this.

    After curbs left we fell so far, and so quickly that it leaves scars that will be felt for quite some time, and to be fair, it has been quite a turnaround when you consider the 3 seasons prior to this one. If we did manange promotion, remaining in the CCC would take a massive effort, one that i feel we would stuggle to do. The days of premiership security are a long way off.

    It will take years to heal from our fall from grace.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Roland Out Forever!