Brilliant article by Steve Howard in the pullout about the mess Curbs left us in, absolutely spot on.......not sure how to do a link etc but well worth a read..
everyone should shoulder some responsibility, as everyone has made mistakes.
Curbs - Left us in poor shape and a poor squad. Failed to motivate up to previous levels, knew to get out at the right time and keep his reputation intact.
Richard Murray - Wrong to decide on the structure they wanted until finding the right man to fit at the top of the structure. Wrong to select Dowie, with obvious characteristics that would never just 'fit into' a structure; Still believe there was a small part of the appointment in wanting to get back at Jordan. Wrong when he decided to dismiss Dowie to appoint Reed immediately, especially when it was obvious the players had no respect for him. Wrong to let Peter Varney single-handedly front all the flack. Wrong to publicly single out one player publicly, regardless of what that player had done. Wrong to have given Dowie quite so much money straigh away.
Peter Varney - Bit of a scapegoat, but wrong to give on more than one occassion a quote to the press stating something would happen, only for the opposite to happen in less than a week. It sends out the message the board is making it up as they go along, and not being 100% straight with supporters. As we have learnt in the past, sometimes its better to say nothing in periods of uncertainess.
Dowie - Wrong to accept a job in a set structure and then expect to be able to change it around within a couple of months. Wrong to have wasted so much money on poor acquisitions. If true, wrong to let his brother anywhere near the dressing room area at Fulham away. If true, very wrong to go and stay at home before Wigan away and turn up a few hours before KO.
Reed - Wrong to have accepted a job which would make or break his career when he would of known the players were not behind him from the start.
Supporters - Its easy to blame everyone else, without looking at yourselves. Perhaps were were wrong in letting our expectations get above us a little bit. Perhaps in hindsight, we should of been 'grateful' for the premiership status secured in the past two seasons, even if they were it had been attained had not been enjoyable to watch.
I think Reed is pretty much exempt from blame to be honest, in fact I think in taking the job in those circumstances - i.e the squad in the shape it was - he took a risk with his own career, as he wasn't given the opportunity to change the real problems, i.e. the playing staff.
i don't really consider you're views on this because i'm pretty sure you held these views before the mess of this season. There is something personal about this and i think you're views are blinkered.
I'd be very interested if any others shared your views, and suprised.
Out of interest, so Murray and Varney step down tomorrow. Who exactly would run the club, or who would you want to run the club ?
I've always seen them a bit like good cop bad cop, Varney being the latter. But if you want to lay blame on them you have to identify what decisions and why, and then attribute responsibility. In all fairness, is six seasons in the top flight followed by relegation really a failure for a club our size?
i'd like to know if there's anyone else who loves charlton as much as murray and is prepared to piss millions of their own money down the drain.... no.... well let's be grateful for him cos without him we may not have achieved some of the recent highs our club has achieved . as a supporter for 30 years i know the last 10 have been light years better than the previous 20
Richard Murray may have made some mistakes this year but anyone who wants him replaced should be made to sit down and watch a replay of the , Gliksten family, Mark Hulyer and John Fryer (Sunley Holdings anyone) days to bring them back to reality. If there's one bloke who is still well in credit after all this its Murray. Varney is an irrelevance to this, he is not the cash or the brains just the executor.
[cite]Posted By: abrown1972[/cite]Richard Murray may have made some mistakes this year but anyone who wants him replaced should be made to sit down and watch a replay of the , Gliksten family, Mark Hulyer and John Fryer (Sunley Holdings anyone) days to bring them back to reality.
If there's one bloke who is still well in credit after all this its Murray.
Varney is an irrelevance to this, he is not the cash or the brains just the executor.
and we've beat Bolton who beat Arsenal, who beat Man U, who won the Champions League once........
Think that Sheffield smog has pickled your brain.
No one is doubting the board have not made a catalogue of mistakes this season, but if you want to put about prominent 'outing' views, you're going to have to find yourself a much stronger arguement otherwise you will forever be a lone voice.
And most long voices are either cranks or wind up merchants....
I still point the finger at those passionless prima donnas on the pitch.
As for Varney/Murray et al, I have nothing but my continued respect (and Curbs/Reed - judge still out on Dowie until more information is released) - if they have made mistakes, so be it - we have all made them in our time. But there is one thing I am sure about, and that is whatever decision whether it turned out right or wrong, they have given the club 100% - unlike those ungrateful bastards on the pitch.
[cite]Posted By: Solidgone[/cite]I still point the finger at those passionless prima donnas on the pitch.
As for Varney/Murray et al, I have nothing but my continued respect (and Curbs/Reed - judge still out on Dowie until more information is released) - if they have made mistakes, so be it - we have all made them in our time. But there is one thing I am sure about, and that is whatever decision whether it turned out right or wrong, they have given the club 100% - unlike those ungrateful bastards on the pitch.
I agree entirely, Solid, except on ID where my mind is made up.
Roy Arnold/Sheffield Eagle = unfunny wind up merchant banker. Please make him go away someone. The only problem is not him but that it would be good to have a rational debate about what has gone wrong, why and what can be done to do it better next time and to be able to share that with the board. moronic comments like his make that nigh impossible and will only make it less likely for the board to listen to fans with an open mind. If we want them to go in a bunker then this is just the way to go about it.
"I agree entirely, Solid, except on ID where my mind is made up." Says Henry Irving You keep slaging off Dowie, on here and in your column. I think it is time you said more about your reasons or just lay off him. I think he is a decent bloke who got mugged. Please do not come back with the old...."I'd like to say more but I can't" trash. Either say why you hate him or shut up.
Perhaps with the benefit of hindsight to some extent admittedly, in my opinion the Board was too quick to oust the last regime completely. Curbs still had a year to go so why didn't they make him stay whilst taking time to appoint the right man as his successor?
Alternatively if it was considered that the spectre of Curbs would loom too large, why didn't they appoint Keith Peacock (or Merv) as caretaker in the way Blackburn often did with Tony Parkes when between managers? I remember posting that suggestion before Dowie was appointed.
I have to say that the one thing that has left a nasty taste in my mouth over all this is the way a magnificent Club servant like Peacock was treated. He ruthlessly had his contract terminated as part of the flotsam and jettsam of Curbs' departure.
I don't doubt that the Board did what they thought was right though and as fans we should back them. There are far worst boards about.
[cite]Posted By: Solidgone[/cite]I still point the finger at those passionless prima donnas on the pitch.
As for Varney/Murray et al, I have nothing but my continued respect (and Curbs/Reed - judge still out on Dowie until more information is released) - if they have made mistakes, so be it - we have all made them in our time. But there is one thing I am sure about, and that is whatever decision whether it turned out right or wrong, they have given the club 100% - unlike those ungrateful bastards on the pitch.
I agree entirely, Solid, except on ID where my mind is made up.
Roy Arnold/Sheffield Eagle = unfunny wind up merchant banker. Please make him go away someone. The only problem is not him but that it would be good to have a rational debate about what has gone wrong, why and what can be done to do it better next time and to be able to share that with the board. moronic comments like his make that nigh impossible and will only make it less likely for the board to listen to fans with an open mind. If we want them to go in a bunker then this is just the way to go about it.
If this is true its such a shame that what potentially could have been a great topic has been spoilt by someone with an agenda / or just purely on a wind-up.
I was kinda hoping that this sort of thing had been left behind on Netaddicks.
For what its worth - Yes the Board have made mistakes that may lead to our relegation but I know who I'd rather have in charge when attempting to bounce back if we do eventually end up in the CCC.
If the manager only has one year left on a contract which everyone knows will not be re-newed, then they become lame ducks. Look at Keegan at City, Robson at Newcastle and Blair at UK!
I agree with boards deicsion to oust Curbs, however they simply made the wrong choice with Dowie, and gave Reed a chance.
The real failure here is long term building of the squad, through failure of our acadamy to produce enough talent, and our purchasing of future prospects - although who is actually responsible is another issue, I guess ultimately the board.
Add to that purchasing in general, it is unclear to me who actually identifies the targets, Mills presumably just does the paper work/negotiation?
[quote][ For what its worth - Yes the Board have made mistakes that may lead to our relegation but I know who I'd rather have in charge when attempting to bounce back if we do eventually end up in the CCC.[/quote]
[ For what its worth - Yes the Board have made mistakes that may lead to our relegation but I know who I'd rather have in charge when attempting to bounce back if we do eventually end up in the CCC.
Comments
Curbs - Left us in poor shape and a poor squad. Failed to motivate up to previous levels, knew to get out at the right time and keep his reputation intact.
Richard Murray - Wrong to decide on the structure they wanted until finding the right man to fit at the top of the structure. Wrong to select Dowie, with obvious characteristics that would never just 'fit into' a structure; Still believe there was a small part of the appointment in wanting to get back at Jordan. Wrong when he decided to dismiss Dowie to appoint Reed immediately, especially when it was obvious the players had no respect for him. Wrong to let Peter Varney single-handedly front all the flack. Wrong to publicly single out one player publicly, regardless of what that player had done. Wrong to have given Dowie quite so much money straigh away.
Peter Varney - Bit of a scapegoat, but wrong to give on more than one occassion a quote to the press stating something would happen, only for the opposite to happen in less than a week. It sends out the message the board is making it up as they go along, and not being 100% straight with supporters. As we have learnt in the past, sometimes its better to say nothing in periods of uncertainess.
Dowie - Wrong to accept a job in a set structure and then expect to be able to change it around within a couple of months. Wrong to have wasted so much money on poor acquisitions. If true, wrong to let his brother anywhere near the dressing room area at Fulham away. If true, very wrong to go and stay at home before Wigan away and turn up a few hours before KO.
Reed - Wrong to have accepted a job which would make or break his career when he would of known the players were not behind him from the start.
Supporters - Its easy to blame everyone else, without looking at yourselves. Perhaps were were wrong in letting our expectations get above us a little bit. Perhaps in hindsight, we should of been 'grateful' for the premiership status secured in the past two seasons, even if they were it had been attained had not been enjoyable to watch.
I'd be very interested if any others shared your views, and suprised.
Out of interest, so Murray and Varney step down tomorrow. Who exactly would run the club, or who would you want to run the club ?
That is wrong-
Fancy Ken Bates, Peter Ridsdale, Rupert Lowe, Theo Paphitis et al as our Chairman then?
If there's one bloke who is still well in credit after all this its Murray.
Varney is an irrelevance to this, he is not the cash or the brains just the executor.
Well said. People have short memories.
Someone with quite a bit of cash - we seem to have a pauper of a chairman compared to numerous other clubs.[/quote]
yes you have, you've been pushing these views elsewhere for quite some time.
I'm sorry, of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but the above sentence just about says it all.
How much do you reckon our 'pauper of a chairman' has put into the club in the last 16 years ? take a guess ?
Cup shocks happen, don't like it, but we're suckers for one on a regular basis, it happens, such is life.
So who's got the money then Roy, to take over from Murray?
Think that Sheffield smog has pickled your brain.
No one is doubting the board have not made a catalogue of mistakes this season, but if you want to put about prominent 'outing' views, you're going to have to find yourself a much stronger arguement otherwise you will forever be a lone voice.
And most long voices are either cranks or wind up merchants....
As for Varney/Murray et al, I have nothing but my continued respect (and Curbs/Reed - judge still out on Dowie until more information is released) - if they have made mistakes, so be it - we have all made them in our time. But there is one thing I am sure about, and that is whatever decision whether it turned out right or wrong, they have given the club 100% - unlike those ungrateful bastards on the pitch.
I agree entirely, Solid, except on ID where my mind is made up.
Roy Arnold/Sheffield Eagle = unfunny wind up merchant banker. Please make him go away someone. The only problem is not him but that it would be good to have a rational debate about what has gone wrong, why and what can be done to do it better next time and to be able to share that with the board. moronic comments like his make that nigh impossible and will only make it less likely for the board to listen to fans with an open mind. If we want them to go in a bunker then this is just the way to go about it.
Says Henry Irving
You keep slaging off Dowie, on here and in your column. I think it is time you said more about your reasons or just lay off him.
I think he is a decent bloke who got mugged.
Please do not come back with the old...."I'd like to say more but I can't" trash. Either say why you hate him or shut up.
Alternatively if it was considered that the spectre of Curbs would loom too large, why didn't they appoint Keith Peacock (or Merv) as caretaker in the way Blackburn often did with Tony Parkes when between managers? I remember posting that suggestion before Dowie was appointed.
I have to say that the one thing that has left a nasty taste in my mouth over all this is the way a magnificent Club servant like Peacock was treated. He ruthlessly had his contract terminated as part of the flotsam and jettsam of Curbs' departure.
I don't doubt that the Board did what they thought was right though and as fans we should back them. There are far worst boards about.
If this is true its such a shame that what potentially could have been a great topic has been spoilt by someone with an agenda / or just purely on a wind-up.
I was kinda hoping that this sort of thing had been left behind on Netaddicks.
For what its worth - Yes the Board have made mistakes that may lead to our relegation but I know who I'd rather have in charge when attempting to bounce back if we do eventually end up in the CCC.
The real failure here is long term building of the squad, through failure of our acadamy to produce enough talent, and our purchasing of future prospects - although who is actually responsible is another issue, I guess ultimately the board.
Add to that purchasing in general, it is unclear to me who actually identifies the targets, Mills presumably just does the paper work/negotiation?
Can someone actually post a link to the article?
Who? Les Reed?
Les has left mate. Do try to keep up