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Anyone think we should go back to an attacking 4-5-1

edited February 2010 in General Charlton
Not convinced the 442 is working for us - we can't accommodate Shelvey in it and it doesn't make the best use of our midfielders which are, arguably, our most important facet.

I love Semedo holding in fron of the back 4 - he is better suited doing the 'makelele' role

This frees up Bailey and whoever else is in there (Sam, Racon, Reid, Spring) to get forward and concentrate on movement and attacking
This allows us to play Shelvey behind the striker and playing as the link man - his ideal role.

I just think this gives us fluidity, pace where it's needed and plenty of attacking option - whlst importantly playing our better players in their best positions. I guess it's more of a 4-1-3-1-1 which looks fairly narrow but we know Richardson and Basey like to get forward and Semedo can cover if needed.
Elliott / Randy

Richardson Dailly Sodje Basey

Semedo

Racon Bailey Reid

Shelvey

Burton / Mckenzie

Am I on to something - or am I wide of the mark

Comments

  • Try anything mate, it certainly worked at the start of the season.

    The trouble is Parkinson aint got a clue, can you text him?
  • I'd actually drop Semedo back to left back, and play Shelvey in the middle, just don't think we need a Makalele at this level. but hey ho
  • Elliot

    Richardson Dailly Sodje Basey
    Semedo

    Racon
    Bailey
    Sam
    Reid
    ---- Burton

    Is what I'd like to see tomorrow night.

    We've also not kept a clean sheet since Southend on Dec 5th
  • edited February 2010
    [cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]I'd actually drop Semedo back to left back, and play Shelvey in the middle, just don't think we need a Makalele at this level. but hey ho

    Agree. Shelvey or Racon with Bailey in a 4-4-2. Give MacKenzie a few games with Deon up top. Mooney has had a few stinkers now and someone deserves to be given a go.
  • [cite]Posted By: BigRedEvil[/cite]

    We've also not kept a clean sheet since Southend on Dec 5th

    exactly ... 8 games against some proper dross really is not good enough
  • At the beginning of the season, we had fluid passing movement but no pace.

    Yet up until Saturday,in a 4-4-2 we stll had no pace in forward positions - and sacrificed much of our creativity in the middle of the park.

    Now we have 2 speed merchants who can play both wings, Waggy and Kylie - that can rip defences to shreds with pace.
    We now have to play somebody in centremid who will put his foot on the ball, has a decent 1st touch and can pick a pass.

    We've 2 players not in the team who can do that .... Racon and Jonjo.
    One of them now needs to play.

    And compared to the beginning of the season, we have the wide men to turn a more defensive 4-5-1 into an attacking 4-3-3.
  • [cite]Posted By: Swisdom[/cite]
    Richardson Dailly Sodje Basey

    Semedo

    Racon Bailey Reid

    Shelvey

    Burton / Mckenzie

    Am I on to something - or am I wide of the mark

    Fair point on the 4-5-1, but would not drop Sam my team would be:

    Robbo
    Richardson, Llera, Sodje, Basey(any word on when youga will return?)
    Bailey
    Sam, Reid
    Shelvey
    Burton, Mooney

    well sort of 4-1-2-1-2, although i think semedo is very valuable i just feel the ownus is on us to attack and most teams sit back against us so maybe worth playing bailey & Shelvey in the middle, Bailey can always cover and play more defensive if necessary
  • I'd like to see BRE's team, though not sure if i'd go for Shelvey or Racon. The one on the bench can replace Semedo if we wanted to go more attacking. Would limit Bailey's goal threat though as he'd have to sit back more, so not sure we should start that way. I want to see us start keeping clean sheets.

    Would consider Wagstaff for Sam, depends on how Walsall play at home and against the bigger clubs in this league though.

    It's a more 451/433 than a flat 4411 that we were playing as we now have a left winger.
  • So we all agree to scrap 442 then!
  • [cite]Posted By: Swisdom[/cite]So we all agree to scrap 442 then!

    I believe so!
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  • edited February 2010
    [cite]Posted By: BigRedEvil[/cite]Elliot

    Richardson Dailly Sodje Basey
    Semedo

    Racon
    Bailey
    Sam
    Reid
    ---- Burton

    Is what I'd like to see tomorrow night.

    Agreed - or Jonjo for Racon. (Except it will be Randolph in goal, which for me is another strong reason to keep Semedo in.)
  • [cite]Posted By: johnnybev1987[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Swisdom[/cite]So we all agree to scrap 442 then!

    I believe so!

    One defeat in 13 games playing 4-4-2. I know it doesn't look pretty at the moment but people have short memories. The 5-1 at home to MK and 4-2 against Bristol Rovers were at the start of that run. Why can't we get back to that form still playing 4-4-2?

    If we do go back, everyone will say how isolated Burton is.
  • Something's just not clicking at the moment, though, Stone. We don't have abvious alternatives for 442, but we have talented players in Shelvey and Racon outside of the team. Needs a shake-up.
  • Weren't we all crying out for Parky to drop the 4-5-1 and play 2 upfront not so long ago, as we weren't a good enough attacking threat. Since we've changed to 4-4-2 we've become the 2nd highest scorers in the division - of course we've conceded a few more, but that was always going to happen when you take an extra man out of the middle.

    Last couple of performances have been poor, but only one was a defeat. I'd just tweak the side by giving MacKenzie his first league start for Burton, who looks tired and has been carrying an injury for months, and then drop Sam for Wagstaff.
  • But maybe we have become too predictable playing as we are so we need to switch things again.

    Anyone who follows us knows the following will happen.

    1 - We will roll it around at the back. fail to move forward and lump it up to the front me.
    2 - We will substitute 60-minute-Sam around 60-65 mins. He will be doubled-up on as we don't play a left midfielder.
    3 - We will bring McKenzie on on the left of Midfield
    4 - Mooney will chase shadows thereafter

    It's all become a bit samey.
    Even this weekend we kept giving the ball to Sam and he had 2 or 3 men on him - so theoretically Reid had acres of space on his wing! This was eventually found to be the case and he was promptly substituted (albeit carrying a knock)
  • It should be an option as it has worked.

    Pace is key and with Reid and Youga (when fit) we can exploit

    I'd prefer a 4 - 1 - 4 - 1 with Semedo holding, Reid, Waggy and/or Sam wide and Bailey with either Racon or Shelvey pushing up to support Burton or McKenzie or the new forward we get when the loan window opens ; - )

    Not every game but when needed.

    But crucially IMHO any systems also needs the players to get the confidence back to play first time passing football and not rely on long diagonal balls to set Sam free instead of passing around teams.
  • I would like to see 4-5-1 but with Semedo in the holding role, Bailey and Raon just in front and Sam and Reid on the wings. Similar to the start of 2005/06 when we had a similar system with KIsh holding, Smertin, Murphy and Thomas and Romm. Now we have two out and out winger, this could work better than the start of the season and with Bailey in the centre, this woud give him more freedom to get forward and operate in a Gerrard type role. Also will be good to see Racon back.
  • Now that we've signed Sodje and have 5 strikers, can we assume we'll be going with 2 up front?
  • elliot
    richardson daily sodje youga
    semedo
    sam baily reid
    shelvey
    burtn

    Our strngest side withut injurys imo
  • [cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]Now that we've signed Sodje and have 5 strikers, can we assume we'll be going with 2 up front?

    Unfortunately - YES

    Though Sodje is not up to 90 mins yet I don't think
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  • [cite]Posted By: eastbourne addick[/cite]elliot
    richardson daily sodje youga
    semedo
    sam baily reid
    shelvey
    burtn

    Our strngest side withut injurys imo
    Agree, with Racon not far off.
  • [quote][cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]I'd actually drop Semedo back to left back, and play Shelvey in the middle, just don't think we need a Makalele at this level. but hey ho[/quote]

    my thinking exactly .
  • Yes for some matches, but no way for many games at home especially against the likes of Tranmere.
  • I don't see that' it's as simple as changing the formation. We have played both 4-5-1 and 4-4-2 well but when when there's no movement off the ball the formation makes no difference. We look good in very small passages of play in most games but to often we'll have the ball and no-one is making runs. And as said it's often all so predictable.
  • I'll still point to the fact that we're lacking creativity in the middle of the park - that someone who can put his foot on the ball. actually look up and pick the pass - or knows when to play the simple ball and then move himself 10 yards into space to pick up the return.

    Now that the leftside deficiency has been addressed, the midfield playmaker is the glaringly obvious thing we're still missing.
  • At their best either Shelvey or Racon will offer that, in slightly different ways. Maybe neither are true
    playmakers but they're our most technical CMs.
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