Trsticles.. typical bloody leeds jammy gits !! (mind you they are alwqys do it - thats what winners are) I am being realistic now.. I think leeds and norwich are up now.. but not mathematical yet.. play offs.. hate to swear Millwall if were able to keep same players next year then i wud fancy us and southampton but shame our side will lose Bailey and Shelvey.. woulsnt it be nice if they agreed to take a pay cut but wont happen !! The reason i say Millwall. They beat leeds and norwich at home.. drew with us 4-4 all with ten men and were in play offs last year.. shud have won the final... they started badly but then had defensice injuries and jackett has got them to the play offs again... been there and done it
Noticed Dickie Davis praising the Leeds fans for their support when they were still losing towards the end. Can't help but think that's a big difference between Leeds & Norwich and us and it could be crucial at the end of the season.
[cite]Posted By: Stig[/cite]Noticed Dickie Davis praising the Leeds fans for their support when they were still losing towards the end.
Can't help but think that's a big difference between Leeds & Norwich and us and it could be crucial at the end of the season.
You're not allowed to say that, Stig.
Sit down in your seat and sit in silence, if we go a goal down.
And if you must make a noise - at least verbally abuse the team you claim to support.
What ever you do, don't actually get behind the team and encourage them.
[cite]Posted By: Stig[/cite]Noticed Dickie Davis praising the Leeds fans for their support when they were still losing towards the end. Can't help but think that's a big difference between Leeds & Norwich and us and it could be crucial at the end of the season.
I noticed at the end of the Saints / Pompey game, the Saints fans standing and applauding their team off.
They had just been stuffed 4-1 by their hated rivals.
Can you imagine if it was us and Palace - ours would have got resounding boos and "you don't know what yer doing".
We really need to get behind the team on the run-in,
Instead we just sit around waiting for the team to lift us, and then get on their back when it isn't happening for us.
[cite]Posted By: Six-a-bag-of-nuts[/cite]We really need to get behind the team on the run-in,
Instead we just sit around waiting for the team to lift us, and then get on their back when it isn't happening for us.
[cite]Posted By: Six-a-bag-of-nuts[/cite]We really need to get behind the team on the run-in,
Instead we just sit around waiting for the team to lift us, and then get on their back when it isn't happening for us.
That's all we need to do.
So why don't we ....????
I don't know Oggy.
Maybe we've been worn down by 3 years of abject failure?
I still think there's an element amongst our fans who haven't adjusted to the new reality.
They think this league ought to be a cakewalk and can't wait to get at the manager and players when their expectations aren't met.
They didn't want Parky to stay and are determined to be "proved right" in the end.
They need to wake up and smell the industrial effluent
Maybe it's the dumbed down modern mentality.
You know, instant gratification - or I want my money back. Or f*ck you!
I'm sure most of us remember the days when booing and abuse was hurled at the opposition and referee - only.
The Curbs years in the 90s were built at Fortress Valley. Team & supporters as one.
Look where it got us!
Now we create a hostile atmosphere and - attack our own team.
Unbelievable!
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]
Maybe it's the dumbed down modern mentality.
You know, instant gratification - or I want my money back. Or f*ck you!
Now we create a hostile atmosphere and - attack our own team.
Unbelievable!
Could be we're getting old, mate ;-)
Basically, I agree with you Oggy, although if it was simply the modern way you would expect it to be repeated throughout the league.
The fans will often sing "Charlton 'til I die" and yet abuse the players/manager in the same match.
The connection has been lost somewhere.
We need to find it bloody quick if we want to actually help our team to get promotion this season
I have been a Charlton fan for way too long.... On a serious note yep I agree with you loads of games to go and anything can happen. Leeds have 1 game in hand over us.... The optmisit in me hopes we get a bit of form together and leeds (bye the time they play) will be dogged tired !! Having said that.. if we don't go up do we get rid of Parky?? My answer is a resounding NO !! That's what males football (sic) the highs and lows.. the aah if only... and last minute goals that changes the picture overall !! You know that if it was 3 teams up then we would be one of the 3 guaranteed. but we know the rules before we started the seaonn !!
Perhaps the fans' reaction is because the players often look like they don't give a shit and Parky is beginning to run out of excuses ? Just my opinion - to which I am entitled
Absolutely spot on, guys. I blame the Charlton fans. I mean they can't even be bothered to boo any more. What's going on? Today they didn't even turn up... obviously the difference between us and Norwich and Leeds.
Seriously, please stop all this gratuitous bashing of the fans. How many boo? 50 people - 70 or 80 at most? We're doing OK and for a team that's suffered two relegations in three seasons, the support isn't at all bad. I reckon we could finish anywhere from second to sixth, so there's still everything to play for. But frankly, bashing the fans doesn't help the cause any more than bashing the team.
[cite]Posted By: incorruptible addick[/cite]. But frankly, bashing the fans doesn't help the cause any more than bashing the team.
I take your points IA, but criticising the fans on a forum hardly has the same negative effect than the vocal minority of fans bashing the team at the games.
[cite]Posted By: PL54[/cite]Perhaps the fans' reaction is because the players often look like they don't give a shit and Parky is beginning to run out of excuses ? Just my opinion - to which I am entitled
Of course you are mate.
And after all we are third from bottom and fighting a relegation battle aren't we? ;-)
[cite]Posted By: PL54[/cite]Perhaps the fans' reaction is because the players often look like they don't give a shit and Parky is beginning to run out of excuses ? Just my opinion - to which I am entitled
Of course you are mate.
And after all we are third from bottom and fighting a relegation battle aren't we? ;-)
Position in the table has nothing to do with players giving a shit and Parky rolling out excuses - there was a bit of comment on here a while back saying that even though we weren't getting results we were playing well. That seems to gone quiet recently ?
[cite]Posted By: PL54[/cite]Perhaps the fans' reaction is because the players often look like they don't give a shit and Parky is beginning to run out of excuses ? Just my opinion - to which I am entitled
Of course you are mate.
And after all we are third from bottom and fighting a relegation battle aren't we? ;-)
Position in the table has nothing to do with players giving a shit and Parky rolling out excuses - there was a bit of comment on here a while back saying that even though we weren't getting results we were playing well. That seems to gone quiet recently ?
I think we'd both agree we've been poor recently, but we are still in there.
I'm not denying your right to criticise; my point was we are still thereabouts and if we all want Charlton to go up getting at the team and manager vocally at games isn' t going to help anyone.
If we were fighting relegation you could at least understand it - even though that wouldn;t help either.
Yes, we have gone off the boil but let's get some perspective.
The players need us behind them
''The fans will often sing "Charlton 'til I die" and yet abuse the players/manager in the same match.''
To be fair, I think that has always been part of the game and I don't believe CAFC are that much different from other teams in this respect.
I'm watching Man City v Stoke on TV and the City fans really started getting on the backs of their team in the last 25 mins of the first half, due to a perceived lack of enterprise and effort - even though their team was ahead.
That's the way of football : and who is to say the City fans were wrong? It's just too easy to blame those on the terraces rather than those on the pitch for Stoke's equaliser. The City fans could see it coming - and their vocal disaffection was their way of warning the team that if they didn't pull their finger out, they were not going to keep their lead.
We always say that teams respond to the fans support - well may be they need to start learning to respond to the dissaproval of fans, and learn to lift their game when the faithful say 'this just isn't good enough'.
Perhaps the reason ''fans will often sing "Charlton 'til I die" and yet abuse the players/manager in the same match'' is because they've been coming for decades, they've seen the good times and the bad times and they will still be coming after every single member of the current playing and coaching staff has transfered their allegiance to another team.
I'm not saying you are wrong to demand the fans should ''get behind'' the team more. Just asking that you think a liitle more deeply about what is involved in this notion of ''loyalty''.
[cite]Posted By: incorruptible addick[/cite]Absolutely spot on, guys. I blame the Charlton fans. I mean they can't even be bothered to boo any more. What's going on? Today they didn't even turn up... obviously the difference between us and Norwich and Leeds.
Seriously, please stop all this gratuitous bashing of the fans. How many boo? 50 people - 70 or 80 at most? We're doing OK and for a team that's suffered two relegations in three seasons, the support isn't at all bad. I reckon we could finish anywhere from second to sixth, so there's still everything to play for. But frankly, bashing the fans doesn't help the cause any more than bashing the team.
[cite]Posted By: incorruptible addick[/cite] Perhaps the reason ''fans will often sing "Charlton 'til I die" and yet abuse the players/manager in the same match'' is because they've been coming for decades, they've seen the good times and the bad times and they will still be coming after every single member of the current playing and coaching staff has transfered their allegiance to another team.
I'm not saying you are wrong to demand the fans should ''get behind'' the team more. Just asking that you think a liitle more deeply about what is involved in this notion of ''loyalty''.
Turning your point on it's head, I'd say that maybe it is because I've been coming for decades that I am better able now to put the teams performances in perspective rather than a negative gut reaction.
Your point about always being here when players and managers have changed allegiance is pertinent in the case of prima donnas out to make a quick buck and move on.
But we are talking about a manager who turned a complete mess around and a team competing for promotion who happened to have gone off the boil hopefully temporarily.
I'm not questioning the fans "loyalty" per se; just focusing on the negatve vibe around the place as I am genuinely concerned it might affect our chances.
[cite]Posted By: Six-a-bag-of-nuts[/cite]Turning your point on it's head, I'd say that maybe it is because I've been coming for decades that I am better able now to put the teams performances in perspective rather than a negative gut reaction.
This is a good point that Six-nuts has made. We might have 40 years odd of watching Charlton under our belt - but this is the point - we have seen it all before. And success/failur/success comes round in cycles.
Always has.
And always will.
But until the last few years, fans bashing their own team wasn't considered supporting your team.
Booing and abuse was hurled at the opposition and referee.
In those days, when a team was losing and time was running out - the crowd got behind the team, urging them on.
Whether the result was a comeback or not, it was always known as "the grandstand finish".
Even if we lost, people would come out of the ground buzzing. It was part of football.
Now half the crowd leave early to beat the traffic, and those that are left sit in silence or vent their anger at the team.
Where's the support from supporters?
[cite]Posted By: Six-a-bag-of-nuts[/cite]I'm not questioning the fans "loyalty" per se; just focusing on the negatve vibe around the place as I am genuinely concerned it might affect our chances.
Agree with Six-nuts again. It's not about crowd bashing - we're generalising here.
FACT: It so often is a crap atmosphere if we're not 2-0 up in 10 minutes or even 10 minutes to go.
Our point is - even if the team is losing, why can't we make it a great atmosphere?
Which is where we came in.
If Leeds supporters can urge their team on towards a last gasp equaliser, why are we not doing that at The Valley?
[cite]Posted By: Rudders22[/cite]I have been a Charlton fan for way too long.... On a serious note yep I agree with you loads of games to go and anything can happen.
Hi Rudders ......not digging you out personally, mate.
My post was very much tongue in cheek complete with smiley.
Not sure how many games at the Valley you have been at this season, mate. Clearly you must have been present at the handful that I missed. Most games I've been to, I've heard 95 per cent of the supporters getting behind the team. As said above, those who boo can only number 70-80 maximum out of thousands.
I really don't understand this obssesion - and that is what it has become - with attacking the fans.
You say : ''It so often is a crap atmosphere if we're not 2-0 up in 10 minutes''. So which games are you talking about then? I must have missed them as I've never witnessed that, although there has been some frustration in recent weeks at our failure to beat some very mediocre sides at home. But please specify the ocassions - apparently many of them as you say ''so often'' - on which you have found our support turning sour because we haven't scored twice in the first ten minutes.
In general I admire your Leibnizian optimism that where CAFC is concerned, ''all is for the best in the best of all possible worlds". But I do not understand why you so vigorously and persistently insist on excluding the supporters from this Panglossian philosophy.
[cite]Posted By: incorruptible addick[/cite]You say : ''It so often is a crap atmosphere if we're not 2-0 up in 10 minutes''. So which games are you talking about then, Oggy? I must have missed them as I've never witnessed that, so please tell us on whicb ocassions you found this to be the case.
Must be where you sit because in the North Upper this season the atmosphere has been horrible, some vile vitriol being spouted and some downright rotten views and pre-conceived opinions that will never be changed no matter what the players or Parky do. And no, it's not 'now and again' it's all the bloody time.
Well all I can say WSS is that if this vitriol really starts if we don't score twice by 3.10pm, I'm v glad I don't sit in the north upper. (I last sat in the north stand before it had an upper in the first season back at the Valley, but haven't sat there since).
Comments
Millwall always f*ck it up in the play offs!
Picking up points away from home is going to be vital for teams in the run in. The top 7 have lost a total of 6 home games between them all season.
Oi, Rudders - I'm not having that ...... you're not being realistic at all.
That's guesswork.
The teams which are promoted won't be known for at least a couple of months.
That's being realistic.
;o)
You're not allowed to say that, Stig.
Sit down in your seat and sit in silence, if we go a goal down.
And if you must make a noise - at least verbally abuse the team you claim to support.
What ever you do, don't actually get behind the team and encourage them.
;o)
I noticed at the end of the Saints / Pompey game, the Saints fans standing and applauding their team off.
They had just been stuffed 4-1 by their hated rivals.
Can you imagine if it was us and Palace - ours would have got resounding boos and "you don't know what yer doing".
We really need to get behind the team on the run-in,
Instead we just sit around waiting for the team to lift us, and then get on their back when it isn't happening for us.
That's all we need to do.
So why don't we ....????
I don't know Oggy.
Maybe we've been worn down by 3 years of abject failure?
I still think there's an element amongst our fans who haven't adjusted to the new reality.
They think this league ought to be a cakewalk and can't wait to get at the manager and players when their expectations aren't met.
They didn't want Parky to stay and are determined to be "proved right" in the end.
They need to wake up and smell the industrial effluent
You know, instant gratification - or I want my money back. Or f*ck you!
I'm sure most of us remember the days when booing and abuse was hurled at the opposition and referee - only.
The Curbs years in the 90s were built at Fortress Valley. Team & supporters as one.
Look where it got us!
Now we create a hostile atmosphere and - attack our own team.
Unbelievable!
Could be we're getting old, mate ;-)
Basically, I agree with you Oggy, although if it was simply the modern way you would expect it to be repeated throughout the league.
The fans will often sing "Charlton 'til I die" and yet abuse the players/manager in the same match.
The connection has been lost somewhere.
We need to find it bloody quick if we want to actually help our team to get promotion this season
I have been a Charlton fan for way too long.... On a serious note yep I agree with you loads of games to go and anything can happen. Leeds have 1 game in hand over us.... The optmisit in me hopes we get a bit of form together and leeds (bye the time they play) will be dogged tired !! Having said that.. if we don't go up do we get rid of Parky?? My answer is a resounding NO !! That's what males football (sic) the highs and lows.. the aah if only... and last minute goals that changes the picture overall !! You know that if it was 3 teams up then we would be one of the 3 guaranteed. but we know the rules before we started the seaonn !!
Seriously, please stop all this gratuitous bashing of the fans. How many boo? 50 people - 70 or 80 at most? We're doing OK and for a team that's suffered two relegations in three seasons, the support isn't at all bad. I reckon we could finish anywhere from second to sixth, so there's still everything to play for. But frankly, bashing the fans doesn't help the cause any more than bashing the team.
I take your points IA, but criticising the fans on a forum hardly has the same negative effect than the vocal minority of fans bashing the team at the games.
Of course you are mate.
And after all we are third from bottom and fighting a relegation battle aren't we? ;-)
Position in the table has nothing to do with players giving a shit and Parky rolling out excuses - there was a bit of comment on here a while back saying that even though we weren't getting results we were playing well. That seems to gone quiet recently ?
Glad you felt able to contribute ;-)
Come on mate, you can do better than that.
I think we'd both agree we've been poor recently, but we are still in there.
I'm not denying your right to criticise; my point was we are still thereabouts and if we all want Charlton to go up getting at the team and manager vocally at games isn' t going to help anyone.
If we were fighting relegation you could at least understand it - even though that wouldn;t help either.
Yes, we have gone off the boil but let's get some perspective.
The players need us behind them
''The fans will often sing "Charlton 'til I die" and yet abuse the players/manager in the same match.''
To be fair, I think that has always been part of the game and I don't believe CAFC are that much different from other teams in this respect.
I'm watching Man City v Stoke on TV and the City fans really started getting on the backs of their team in the last 25 mins of the first half, due to a perceived lack of enterprise and effort - even though their team was ahead.
That's the way of football : and who is to say the City fans were wrong? It's just too easy to blame those on the terraces rather than those on the pitch for Stoke's equaliser. The City fans could see it coming - and their vocal disaffection was their way of warning the team that if they didn't pull their finger out, they were not going to keep their lead.
We always say that teams respond to the fans support - well may be they need to start learning to respond to the dissaproval of fans, and learn to lift their game when the faithful say 'this just isn't good enough'.
Perhaps the reason ''fans will often sing "Charlton 'til I die" and yet abuse the players/manager in the same match'' is because they've been coming for decades, they've seen the good times and the bad times and they will still be coming after every single member of the current playing and coaching staff has transfered their allegiance to another team.
I'm not saying you are wrong to demand the fans should ''get behind'' the team more. Just asking that you think a liitle more deeply about what is involved in this notion of ''loyalty''.
Bang on fella. Well said.
Your point about always being here when players and managers have changed allegiance is pertinent in the case of prima donnas out to make a quick buck and move on.
But we are talking about a manager who turned a complete mess around and a team competing for promotion who happened to have gone off the boil hopefully temporarily.
I'm not questioning the fans "loyalty" per se; just focusing on the negatve vibe around the place as I am genuinely concerned it might affect our chances.
This is a good point that Six-nuts has made. We might have 40 years odd of watching Charlton under our belt - but this is the point - we have seen it all before. And success/failur/success comes round in cycles.
Always has.
And always will.
But until the last few years, fans bashing their own team wasn't considered supporting your team.
Booing and abuse was hurled at the opposition and referee.
In those days, when a team was losing and time was running out - the crowd got behind the team, urging them on.
Whether the result was a comeback or not, it was always known as "the grandstand finish".
Even if we lost, people would come out of the ground buzzing. It was part of football.
Now half the crowd leave early to beat the traffic, and those that are left sit in silence or vent their anger at the team.
Where's the support from supporters?
Agree with Six-nuts again. It's not about crowd bashing - we're generalising here.
FACT: It so often is a crap atmosphere if we're not 2-0 up in 10 minutes or even 10 minutes to go.
Our point is - even if the team is losing, why can't we make it a great atmosphere?
Which is where we came in.
If Leeds supporters can urge their team on towards a last gasp equaliser, why are we not doing that at The Valley?
Hi Rudders ......not digging you out personally, mate.
My post was very much tongue in cheek complete with smiley.
Cheers!
''Where's the support from supporters?''
Not sure how many games at the Valley you have been at this season, mate. Clearly you must have been present at the handful that I missed. Most games I've been to, I've heard 95 per cent of the supporters getting behind the team. As said above, those who boo can only number 70-80 maximum out of thousands.
I really don't understand this obssesion - and that is what it has become - with attacking the fans.
You say : ''It so often is a crap atmosphere if we're not 2-0 up in 10 minutes''. So which games are you talking about then? I must have missed them as I've never witnessed that, although there has been some frustration in recent weeks at our failure to beat some very mediocre sides at home. But please specify the ocassions - apparently many of them as you say ''so often'' - on which you have found our support turning sour because we haven't scored twice in the first ten minutes.
In general I admire your Leibnizian optimism that where CAFC is concerned, ''all is for the best in the best of all possible worlds". But I do not understand why you so vigorously and persistently insist on excluding the supporters from this Panglossian philosophy.