I feel it over-simpifies things if we just take a taxes/wages view. We all know that just because you pay for some kind of service, it doesn't mean it is going to be of the quality/standard we expect. I once heard a guy say to a cop " I pay your wages", only for the cop to reply " well in that case I want a payrise".
We will also know of situations where a simple thank you or a show of interest has improved a regular service in some way.
Some servicemen/women are being told to change out of uniform before using public transport in the UK, yet cowboy car-clampers and hate-preachers go about their affairs unhindered.
Tha armed forces are not only about fighting though - I heard only a few days ago that the army were on standby in Kent to get ambulances through the snow, and many will remember soldiers working as firefighters in times gone past. Not to mention air/sea rescue copters and the sandbagging work that the army did during the floods of 2008.
The armed forces are similar to the police service, in that, we will only get the quality that we deserve based on the standards we (the public) set.
To simply say that "we pay for it, and if you don't like war don't join" doesn't work if we run out of recruits.
Sorry if it sounds a bit preachy, but I have had this talk with quite a few people lately - who are angry at the war.
I'm kind of mixed on this.
Soldiers are given slightly more adulation than they perhaps deserve. Doctors or firefighters that save lives are surely at the very least equal in terms of respect to those who take them (for whatever reason) but they get a fraction of the public acknowledgement.
What I do dislike though is the sneering attitude among some that soldiers are just 'hired mercenaries' that join up to fulfill some sort of blood lust. This is obviously untrue, but then so is the idea that soldiers are uniformly heroes. Both viewpoints are simplistic.
The fact is we need an army, and giving the position a sense of elevated patriotism and respect is a massive part of convincing people to sign up. Sure, it's a form of conditioning but perhaps a necessary one. Who would sign up to go halfway across the world to be potentially killed if they felt they would be derided for it? Similarly, killing someone is a terrible thing, and it's important to give people a sense of 'doing it for their country' and a sense of purpose and pride.
So we have the slew of parades, medals etc. Some of it deserved, some of it not. But probably all of it necessary.
I have to admit that I winced a bit when I saw AshTray's initial comment, bracing myself for what I thought was coming.
I was completely wrong.
What a wonderful board this is (as evidenced by just about every link to a different club's board that is posted here!). I don't mean this to sound remotely patronising, but must say that I am well and truly impressed that all on this thread have managed to have what seem to me to be a sober and well-reasoned discussion about such a heavily politically charged issue.
[cite]Posted By: Can-addick[/cite]I have to admit that I winced a bit when I saw AshTray's initial comment, bracing myself for what I thought was coming.
I was completely wrong.
What a wonderful board this is (as evidenced by just about every link to a different club's board that is posted here!). I don't mean this to sound remotely patronising, but must say that I am well and truly impressed that all on this thread have managed to have what seem to me to be a sober and well-reasoned discussion about such a heavily politically charged issue.
[cite]Posted By: Can-addick[/cite]I have to admit that I winced a bit when I saw AshTray's initial comment, bracing myself for what I thought was coming.
I was completely wrong.
What a wonderful board this is (as evidenced by just about every link to a different club's board that is posted here!). I don't mean this to sound remotely patronising, but must say that I am well and truly impressed that all on this thread have managed to have what seem to me to be a sober and well-reasoned discussion about such a heavily politically charged issue.
Agree with CanAddick.
The response has been very much positive (80 or 90% of posters fully backing the idea) with a few people expressing reservations. Can't see why that is a negative.
Thank you for visiting the official website of the 92 Football League Club Challenge in aid of Help for Heroes.
We are going to be leaving Wembley after the England game on Friday 11th October and visiting every football league ground in the time allowed to get back to Wembley in time for kick off on Tuesday 15th October for the second England game travelling by car - all 2,600 miles of it!
You can follow the challenge here on the 92plus1 website!
Thank you to everyone who is helping us with the challenge, we appreciate your support!
Support Messages!
"Good luck with it, it's a great thing you are doing for an incredible cause" - Shoot Magazine
"A great challenge for a great cause, good luck to everyone involved in the @92plus1 challenge" - Peter Shilton OBE, former England, Southampton, Leicester City, Nottingham Forest goalkeeper
"Good luck ....hats off" - Harry the Hornet, Watford FC Mascot
"Wishing you every good luck" - The League Magazine
"Good luck to you all......brilliant people involved" - Neville Southall MBE, former Wales and Everton goalkeeper
"Good luck for a great cause - of course the four miles from Orient to Upton Park will be special..." - Matt Lorenzo - BBC, ITV and Sky Sports Presenter
"A great cause, keep up the good work" - Gavin Maguire, former Wales, QPR and Portsmouth defender
"For all of you that are supporting the Help for Heroes campaign, giving back to those that deserve this help, to see so many people from all different walks reach out is great. Good luck with the 2,500 mile journey" - Leon McKenzie, former Crystal Palace, Norwich City, Peterborough United and Coventry City striker
"Keep up the good work and I hope the challenge goes well" - Craig Heap, Olympian and Commonwealth Gold Medalist
"Good luck to you all" - Dominic Matteo, former Liverpool, Leeds United and Blackburn Rovers defender
"Good luck to some fantastic guys supporting an amazing charity that touches us all" - Paul Gibbs, former Brentford, Barnsley, Colchester United, Torquay United and Plymouth Argyle defender
"Good luck with your challenge!" from everyone at Scarborough Athletic F.C.
"I am a big supporter of help for heroes and wish everyone all the best with the fund raising" - Dave Langan, former Derby County, Oxford United and Republic of Ireland International defender
"All the best to you and good luck" - Steve Walsh, former Leicester City and Wigan Athletic defender
"Wishing all involved with 92+1 the very best doing something for those who do so much for all of us" - Clarence The Dragon, Northampton Town mascot
"Good luck to those taking part in the 92plus1 challenge . A great challenge for a great cause" - Adrian Forbes, former Norwich City, Luton Town, Swansea City, Blackpool, Grimsby Town and Millwall midfielder
"Great challenge for a great cause.....get behind our heroes!" - Graeme Murty, former Reading, York City, Southampton and Scotland International defender
"A great looking challenge. I'll be keeping tabs to see how you get on! All the very best." - Ryan Gilligan, Northampton Town, Torquay United, Newport County and Ostersunds FK midfielder
“Travelling for 92 hours without sleep to visit 92 football league grounds, sounds like utter madness but it’s all for a wonderful cause, I would like to wish you guys the very best of luck!” - Brian Statham, former Brentford, Gillingham and Tottenham defender
Thank you for visiting the official website of the 92 Football League Club Challenge in aid of Help for Heroes.
We are going to be leaving Wembley after the England game on Friday 11th October and visiting every football league ground in the time allowed to get back to Wembley in time for kick off on Tuesday 15th October for the second England game travelling by car - all 2,600 miles of it!
You can follow the challenge here on the 92plus1 website!
Thank you to everyone who is helping us with the challenge, we appreciate your support!
Comments
100% agree and has been for a while
Soldiers are given slightly more adulation than they perhaps deserve. Doctors or firefighters that save lives are surely at the very least equal in terms of respect to those who take them (for whatever reason) but they get a fraction of the public acknowledgement.
What I do dislike though is the sneering attitude among some that soldiers are just 'hired mercenaries' that join up to fulfill some sort of blood lust. This is obviously untrue, but then so is the idea that soldiers are uniformly heroes. Both viewpoints are simplistic.
The fact is we need an army, and giving the position a sense of elevated patriotism and respect is a massive part of convincing people to sign up. Sure, it's a form of conditioning but perhaps a necessary one. Who would sign up to go halfway across the world to be potentially killed if they felt they would be derided for it? Similarly, killing someone is a terrible thing, and it's important to give people a sense of 'doing it for their country' and a sense of purpose and pride.
So we have the slew of parades, medals etc. Some of it deserved, some of it not. But probably all of it necessary.
Not a negative at all. I thought it was a healthy and balanced debate.
I was completely wrong.
What a wonderful board this is (as evidenced by just about every link to a different club's board that is posted here!). I don't mean this to sound remotely patronising, but must say that I am well and truly impressed that all on this thread have managed to have what seem to me to be a sober and well-reasoned discussion about such a heavily politically charged issue.
Couldn't agree more.
No disrespect intended, but you don't. What for you (having, I'm guessing never been in a conflict zone) constitutes a hero?
Someone who has served in the forces but not done something heroic enough for you?
Agree with CanAddick.
The response has been very much positive (80 or 90% of posters fully backing the idea) with a few people expressing reservations. Can't see why that is a negative.
No disrespect intended, but you don't. What for you (having, I'm guessing never been in a conflict zone) constitutes a hero?
Someone who has served in the forces but not done something heroic enough for you?[/quote]
You're right I've never been in a war zone. Are you saying that only those who have been can have an opinion on this?
A hero goes above and beyond, calling everyone who serves in the forces at a time of conflict a hero devalues the word.
Not sure what you mean by your last line.
1. a person of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his/her brave deeds and noble qualities.
Welcome to 92 plus 1
Thank you for visiting the official website of the 92 Football League Club Challenge in aid of Help for Heroes.
We are going to be leaving Wembley after the England game on Friday 11th October and visiting every football league ground in the time allowed to get back to Wembley in time for kick off on Tuesday 15th October for the second England game travelling by car - all 2,600 miles of it!
You can follow the challenge here on the 92plus1 website!
Thank you to everyone who is helping us with the challenge, we appreciate your support!
Support Messages!
"Good luck with it, it's a great thing you are doing for an incredible cause" - Shoot Magazine
"A great challenge for a great cause, good luck to everyone involved in the @92plus1 challenge" - Peter Shilton OBE, former England, Southampton, Leicester City, Nottingham Forest goalkeeper
"Good luck ....hats off" - Harry the Hornet, Watford FC Mascot
"Wishing you every good luck" - The League Magazine
"Good luck to you all......brilliant people involved" - Neville Southall MBE, former Wales and Everton goalkeeper
"Good luck for a great cause - of course the four miles from Orient to Upton Park will be special..." - Matt Lorenzo - BBC, ITV and Sky Sports Presenter
"A great cause, keep up the good work" - Gavin Maguire, former Wales, QPR and Portsmouth defender
"For all of you that are supporting the Help for Heroes campaign, giving back to those that deserve this help, to see so many people from all different walks reach out is great. Good luck with the 2,500 mile journey" - Leon McKenzie, former Crystal Palace, Norwich City, Peterborough United and Coventry City striker
"Keep up the good work and I hope the challenge goes well" - Craig Heap, Olympian and Commonwealth Gold Medalist
"Good luck to you all" - Dominic Matteo, former Liverpool, Leeds United and Blackburn Rovers defender
"Good luck to some fantastic guys supporting an amazing charity that touches us all" - Paul Gibbs, former Brentford, Barnsley, Colchester United, Torquay United and Plymouth Argyle defender
"Good luck with your challenge!" from everyone at Scarborough Athletic F.C.
"I am a big supporter of help for heroes and wish everyone all the best with the fund raising" - Dave Langan, former Derby County, Oxford United and Republic of Ireland International defender
"All the best to you and good luck" - Steve Walsh, former Leicester City and Wigan Athletic defender
"Wishing all involved with 92+1 the very best doing something for those who do so much for all of us" - Clarence The Dragon, Northampton Town mascot
"Good luck to those taking part in the 92plus1 challenge . A great challenge for a great cause" - Adrian Forbes, former Norwich City, Luton Town, Swansea City, Blackpool, Grimsby Town and Millwall midfielder
"Great challenge for a great cause.....get behind our heroes!" - Graeme Murty, former Reading, York City, Southampton and Scotland International defender
"A great looking challenge. I'll be keeping tabs to see how you get on! All the very best." - Ryan Gilligan, Northampton Town, Torquay United, Newport County and Ostersunds FK midfielder
“Travelling for 92 hours without sleep to visit 92 football league grounds, sounds like utter madness but it’s all for a wonderful cause, I would like to wish you guys the very best of luck!” - Brian Statham, former Brentford, Gillingham and Tottenham defender
Thank you for visiting the official website of the 92 Football League Club Challenge in aid of Help for Heroes.
We are going to be leaving Wembley after the England game on Friday 11th October and visiting every football league ground in the time allowed to get back to Wembley in time for kick off on Tuesday 15th October for the second England game travelling by car - all 2,600 miles of it!
You can follow the challenge here on the 92plus1 website!
Thank you to everyone who is helping us with the challenge, we appreciate your support!