These guys join up to serve there country in some way - they can't pick and choose their wars based on a personal viewpoint. If they get sent somewhere to fight, they have to get on with it - or resign from the armed forces.
We need to give moral support to our frontline troops, whilst lobbying our polititians about the senseless waste of lives and resources.
[cite]Posted By: Valiantphil[/cite]Just to pick up on Ashtray's point
These guys join up to serve there country in some way - they can't pick and choose their wars based on a personal viewpoint. If they get sent somewhere to fight, they have to get on with it - or resign from the armed forces.
We need to give moral support to our frontline troops, whilst lobbying our polititians about the senseless waste of lives and resources.
As others have intimated there is a very important distinction between unjustified criticism of brave soldiers doing their jobs and justified criticism of the dubious morality of both the Afghan and Iraq wars.
[cite]Posted By: Valiantphil[/cite]Just to pick up on Ashtray's point
These guys join up to serve there country in some way - they can't pick and choose their wars based on a personal viewpoint. If they get sent somewhere to fight, they have to get on with it - or resign from the armed forces.
We need to give moral support to our frontline troops, whilst lobbying our polititians about the senseless waste of lives and resources.
Make sure you use your vote in the 2010 election.
I'm not sure why people join the armed forces, some to serve their country perhaps but I suspect that most join up for other reasons - mainly economic. It would be interesting to see if there's any research on that.
I don't agree that we "need" to give any sort of support to the troops apart from paying taxes to pay their wages, the sentimentalisation of them is not right in my opinion.
If the club want to give to them in some way that is up to them but I think there are more worthy causes than this.
Am sure there are many reasons why people join up but regardless they are asked, and expected, to put their lives in peril by our country.
don't doubt that if a soldier said "I don't fancy this fighting bit, I only joined for the travel" he or she would be called a fool if not worse.
I agree that sometimes there is a degree of over "sentimentalisation" but is that not to be expected when young men and women are coming home in coffins.
As Kipling said "O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away"; But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play"
Regardless I'm glad that Charlton are doing this. Those that don't want to contribute financially or by applauding are fully entitled to do so. It's not as if Charlton don't help many other very worthy causes where those people's money can go instead.
Alot of people join the army to gain a career. Many leave school with no qualifications and decide to join the armed forces. The spectrum of skills you can learn in the forces is astounding, as i found out when applying for the RAF as a cartographer.
But in regards to next Monday night...
the special guests at the game will be Chelsea pensioners, troops and carers from the Headley Court rehabilitation
These are the people being officially recognised at the Valley. They are hero's and there is no argument against that.
[quote][cite]Posted By: ValleyGary[/cite]Alot of people join the army to gain a career. Many leave school with no qualifications and decide to join the armed forces. The spectrum of skills you can learn in the forces is astounding, as i found out when applying for the RAF as a cartographer.
But in regards to next Monday night...
[i][b]the special guests at the game will be Chelsea pensioners, troops and carers from the Headley Court rehabilitation[/b][/i]
These are the people being officially recognised at the Valley. They are hero's and there is no argument against that.[/quote]
Well there is actually, Chelsea pensioners are old soldiers not necessarily heroes, and those from Headley Court are injured soldiers, again not necessarily heroes. Goes back to my point about over sentimentelising veterans - some are heroes, most aren't. The mix includes all types of people from your heroes to cowards, honest joes to criminals etc. They are people that's all.
[cite]Posted By: ValleyGary[/cite]Alot of people join the army to gain a career. Many leave school with no qualifications and decide to join the armed forces. The spectrum of skills you can learn in the forces is astounding, as i found out when applying for the RAF as a cartographer.
But in regards to next Monday night...
the special guests at the game will be Chelsea pensioners, troops and carers from the Headley Court rehabilitation
These are the people being officially recognised at the Valley. They are hero's and there is no argument against that.
Isn't it 'next Monday week' rather than 'next Monday night'?
Or are we playing two nights in a row?
[cite]Posted By: ValleyGary[/cite]Alot of people join the army to gain a career. Many leave school with no qualifications and decide to join the armed forces. The spectrum of skills you can learn in the forces is astounding, as i found out when applying for the RAF as a cartographer.
But in regards to next Monday night...
the special guests at the game will be Chelsea pensioners, troops and carers from the Headley Court rehabilitation
These are the people being officially recognised at the Valley. They are hero's and there is no argument against that.
Well there is actually, Chelsea pensioners are old soldiers not necessarily heroes, and those from Headley Court are injured soldiers, again not necessarily heroes.
Goes back to my point about over sentimentelising veterans - some are heroes, most aren't. The mix includes all types of people from your heroes to cowards, honest joes to criminals etc. They are people that's all.
You make it sound like we are gonna lay on the floor and let them walk on us. Its simply a way of showing our gratitude (if you have any) for the excellent work these people do.
[cite]Posted By: ValleyGary[/cite]Alot of people join the army to gain a career. Many leave school with no qualifications and decide to join the armed forces. The spectrum of skills you can learn in the forces is astounding, as i found out when applying for the RAF as a cartographer.
But in regards to next Monday night...
the special guests at the game will be Chelsea pensioners, troops and carers from the Headley Court rehabilitation
These are the people being officially recognised at the Valley. They are hero's and there is no argument against that.
Isn't it 'next Monday week' rather than 'next Monday night'?
Or are we playing two nights in a row?
You know what i meant. And if it was two nights in a row wouldnt it be monday and tuesday?
[cite]Posted By: Valiantphil[/cite]Just to pick up on Ashtray's point
These guys join up to serve there country in some way - they can't pick and choose their wars based on a personal viewpoint. If they get sent somewhere to fight, they have to get on with it - or resign from the armed forces.
We need to give moral support to our frontline troops, whilst lobbying our polititians about the senseless waste of lives and resources.
Make sure you use your vote in the 2010 election.
I'm not sure why people join the armed forces, some to serve their country perhaps but I suspect that most join up for other reasons - mainly economic. It would be interesting to see if there's any research on that.
I don't agree that we "need" to give any sort of support to the troops apart from paying taxes to pay their wages, the sentimentalisation of them is not right in my opinion.
If the club want to give to them in some way that is up to them but I think there are more worthy causes than this.
I feel it over-simpifies things if we just take a taxes/wages view. We all know that just because you pay for some kind of service, it doesn't mean it is going to be of the quality/standard we expect. I once heard a guy say to a cop " I pay your wages", only for the cop to reply " well in that case I want a payrise".
We will also know of situations where a simple thank you or a show of interest has improved a regular service in some way.
Some servicemen/women are being told to change out of uniform before using public transport in the UK, yet cowboy car-clampers and hate-preachers go about their affairs unhindered.
Tha armed forces are not only about fighting though - I heard only a few days ago that the army were on standby in Kent to get ambulances through the snow, and many will remember soldiers working as firefighters in times gone past. Not to mention air/sea rescue copters and the sandbagging work that the army did during the floods of 2008.
The armed forces are similar to the police service, in that, we will only get the quality that we deserve based on the standards we (the public) set.
To simply say that "we pay for it, and if you don't like war don't join" doesn't work if we run out of recruits.
Sorry if it sounds a bit preachy, but I have had this talk with quite a few people lately - who are angry at the war.
Comments
Great cause, and a good chance to say "cheers lads and lasses".
http://www.216squadron.com/
BEER FOR THE BOYS !
well done Paul Elliston
Will be great see them and say, Thank You.
as you say Airman "we got there in the end".
Well done to all involved, and Dig Deep on the night.
Well done to all involved. Should make for an extra special monday night.
Well done to the Woolwich Barrack's and Paul Ellison.
I see what AshTray is saying, but that's a decision made by politicians, not the soldiers whose lives are put at risk.
These guys join up to serve there country in some way - they can't pick and choose their wars based on a personal viewpoint. If they get sent somewhere to fight, they have to get on with it - or resign from the armed forces.
We need to give moral support to our frontline troops, whilst lobbying our polititians about the senseless waste of lives and resources.
Make sure you use your vote in the 2010 election.
Oh well
Nail on the head VP.
Those brave soldiers are lions led by donkeys.
I'm not sure why people join the armed forces, some to serve their country perhaps but I suspect that most join up for other reasons - mainly economic. It would be interesting to see if there's any research on that.
I don't agree that we "need" to give any sort of support to the troops apart from paying taxes to pay their wages, the sentimentalisation of them is not right in my opinion.
If the club want to give to them in some way that is up to them but I think there are more worthy causes than this.
don't doubt that if a soldier said "I don't fancy this fighting bit, I only joined for the travel" he or she would be called a fool if not worse.
I agree that sometimes there is a degree of over "sentimentalisation" but is that not to be expected when young men and women are coming home in coffins.
As Kipling said "O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away"; But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play"
Regardless I'm glad that Charlton are doing this. Those that don't want to contribute financially or by applauding are fully entitled to do so. It's not as if Charlton don't help many other very worthy causes where those people's money can go instead.
There is an argument that if you join the armed services then you must expect to fight and possibly have to kill or be killed.
I have sympathy with both these arguments but I will still applaud our troops for their bravery and sacrifice.
Well done CAFC and those who organised this.
But in regards to next Monday night...
the special guests at the game will be Chelsea pensioners, troops and carers from the Headley Court rehabilitation
These are the people being officially recognised at the Valley. They are hero's and there is no argument against that.
But in regards to next Monday night...
[i][b]the special guests at the game will be Chelsea pensioners, troops and carers from the Headley Court rehabilitation[/b][/i]
These are the people being officially recognised at the Valley. They are hero's and there is no argument against that.[/quote]
Well there is actually, Chelsea pensioners are old soldiers not necessarily heroes, and those from Headley Court are injured soldiers, again not necessarily heroes.
Goes back to my point about over sentimentelising veterans - some are heroes, most aren't. The mix includes all types of people from your heroes to cowards, honest joes to criminals etc. They are people that's all.
Isn't it 'next Monday week' rather than 'next Monday night'?
Or are we playing two nights in a row?
You make it sound like we are gonna lay on the floor and let them walk on us. Its simply a way of showing our gratitude (if you have any) for the excellent work these people do.
You know what i meant. And if it was two nights in a row wouldnt it be monday and tuesday?
I feel it over-simpifies things if we just take a taxes/wages view. We all know that just because you pay for some kind of service, it doesn't mean it is going to be of the quality/standard we expect. I once heard a guy say to a cop " I pay your wages", only for the cop to reply " well in that case I want a payrise".
We will also know of situations where a simple thank you or a show of interest has improved a regular service in some way.
Some servicemen/women are being told to change out of uniform before using public transport in the UK, yet cowboy car-clampers and hate-preachers go about their affairs unhindered.
Tha armed forces are not only about fighting though - I heard only a few days ago that the army were on standby in Kent to get ambulances through the snow, and many will remember soldiers working as firefighters in times gone past. Not to mention air/sea rescue copters and the sandbagging work that the army did during the floods of 2008.
The armed forces are similar to the police service, in that, we will only get the quality that we deserve based on the standards we (the public) set.
To simply say that "we pay for it, and if you don't like war don't join" doesn't work if we run out of recruits.
Sorry if it sounds a bit preachy, but I have had this talk with quite a few people lately - who are angry at the war.