[cite]Posted By: AshTray[/cite]My God! You lot are terrified of Millwall aren't you?
If my 60 year old uncle, who is a Millwall fan, could make the game I would be buying him a ticket in the home end to sit with me. None of you would ever know, regardless of the score.
Stop being such drama queens. We're not talking about the Gazza strip, it's a soccer match.
Wouldn't be just a 'soccer' match if he accidently cheered a Milwall goal, would it? sitting in the wrong area you and him would feel the affects of giving him a ticket..
The safety precautions are there for public safety...
Oh come on; if my 60 year old uncle said whey-hey when Millwall scored, what's the worse that could happen?
Everton and Liverpool have always been mature about the whole thing, why can't we? Our clubs divide families and that's a fact. If my uncle's reaction caused trouble it wouldn't be our fault. If he was an Exeter fan you wouldn't have a problem. What's the difference?
AshTray what the problem is is that your 60 year old Uncle is putting himself at risk. If he makes himself known there is no doubt, particularly if he is in the Covered End that people in his vicinity will have something to say or do as a consequence, whether that is something confrontational, or getting him ejected which would in turn put your season ticket at risk.
The difference is, if it was Exeter it might be overlooked or a quiet word said. With this game, the hype and rivalry will see it be far more than that.
[cite]Posted By: ISawLeaburnScore[/cite]The difference is, if it was Exeter it might be overlooked or a quiet word said. With this game, the hype and rivalry will see it be far more than that.
Spot on. Whether you like it or not, that is the way it is and the way it will continue to be so for the foreseeable future.
As I said a few posts above, this isn't Cricket or Rugby, this is the way the beast has been bred. Football is a tribal culture, it's "ours" and "yours". It's bias, it's rivalry, it's emotions boiling over for good or bad and as vancouveraddick has said, it's gonna stay that way.
I think it's being blown out of all proportion. The club have the controls in place to limit the hooligan infiltration so the ones that get in should be the trusted family and friends and I don't see a problem with that. Any problems will be the responsibility of the over reacting Charlton fans looking for trouble.
Personally, I often sit in the home end at away games and as I behave myself, I don't ever anticipate trouble. My Uncle Alan would be the same as me. He may turn round to me and give me a dig if they score, but that's it. If anything happened it would be the fault of those that chose to make something of it, rather than me and Alan's who are just there as uncle and nephew watching a game of soccer.
Things have changed Isaw, I don't think it will be a massive deal on December 19th. The club's ticketing policy will deal with that and as long as us ST holders operate discretion in which Millwall fans we take as guests, it won't be a problem.
AshTray, it always sounds good in theory, but in practice it might not be that way, however well behaved and personable you and your Uncle are, there's always a risk, from whichever side of things, that one day it might be a chance too far, that's just the way it is.
Yeah, but a day out and a Christmas drink with my uncle wins the day Isaw. I don't care about peoples' prejudices and violent tendencies. I can cope with them, knowing I've done nothing wrong. All the best mate.
[cite]Posted By: AshTray[/cite]I can cope with them, knowing I've done nothing wrong. All the best mate.
You are missing the point really, what you are doing is wrong in the eyes of the club. Feel free to go ahead with it, but it wouldn't take much for a steward to eject your uncle, follow it through with the club and you lose your S/T or worse, which is not what I or you would want to happen to a fellow Charlton fan (I take it).
I have no problem with you taking your uncle, but you can still spend the day and have a christmas drink with your uncle, while sitting in seperate ends. :-)
I don't think the club have said season ticket holders can't bring guests who are Millwall fans have they? If I'm wrong, show me where. I still think it's a matter of principle and if anyone causes trouble because my uncle is in the home end it is them that are breaking the law, not me and Alan.
[cite]Posted By: AshTray[/cite]I don't think the club have said season ticket holders can't bring guests who are Millwall fans have they? If I'm wrong, show me where.
"And with demand from opposition supporters likely to exceed the Lions' allocation, the club is putting in place a series of measures to prevent away fans gaining tickets in home areas."
""Ultimately, however, we are reliant on the common sense and co-operation of our own fans, so we are asking for their help in maintaining segregation within the stadium.
"This does not mean that we regard every Millwall fan as a potential hooligan and we understand that your family member or friend might not cause any problems. However, experience tells us that an away fan in a home area is just as likely to run into problems from our own supporters."
"Any Millwall fan identified in a home area will be liable to ejection, and sanctions will be pursued against the person who purchased the ticket on his or her behalf."
The sanctions will include confiscation of season tickets without compensation, in accordance with item three in the terms and conditions listed in supporters' season-ticket booklets."
It doesn't matter if the Pope was a Millwall fan AshTray, the club simply do not want Millwall supporters in our end, whether they get their tickets through "kind" relatives or friends or through rigging the red card system.
I'm pretty sure it will also be in some Football Legislation about the circumstances for legitimate ejection and in every single club's terms and conditions of the Ground. Strictly speaking you are wrong in principle and wrong in the eyes of the law. However unfair this may seem, it's just a fact... I didn't make it up and neither did anyone disagreeing with you on here.
As for the Liverpool/Everton stuff, that's I think what Sky want you to believe in... the "friendly" derby, i'd say it's only been that way for the last ten years or so, maybe less, before that it was pretty bad tempered on and off the pitch
Thanks for that Isaw, but I would still take my chances; which are so slim (if you knew Alan you would laugh). This is policy and not law. If anyone started on me and Alan just for sitting in the home end, it is them that are breaking the law, not us. There are ground rules and there is the law. People need to exercise control. I mean really, what sort of Charlton fan starts on an old uncle and his nephew just enjoying the derby game over Christmas? Let's apply some common sense here.
The club have to say these things, and I'm glad they do, but when it comes down to it, there are no laws to stop Uncle Alan and me sitting together on December 19th.
[cite]Posted By: ISawLeaburnScoreAs for the Liverpool/Everton stuff, that's I think what Sky want you to believe in... the "friendly" derby, i'd say it's only been that way for the last ten years or so, maybe less, before that it was pretty bad tempered on and off the pitch
You're joking by the way! If anything the rivalry has worsened over the years. You might not remember the 85 cup final etc. Liverpool fans helping Everton jump walls to get in etc.
fair play on the merseyside point AshTray... though what I was trying to get at in a misguided fashion was that it's not necessarily as 'friendly' as it might appear with the shirts together, no segregation etc. and nor has it necessarily ever been in some quarters... there's a lot of "bitter blues" on Merseyside and a lot of Reds that will want to remind them of their place and vice versa, when Everton's successes were played upon in years past
Thing is Ashtray your Uncle might be a top bloke but if some idiot Charlton fan starts giving him abuse (wrongly) are you or him going to sit there and take it or give some back?
Cos if you do and it kicks off whatever the rights or wrongs or who started it YOU are the one who is going to lose their season ticket.
And you can moan as much as you like about that not being fair or only policy not the law but that's the way it is. Your risk to take and if you do decide to bring him I really hope it goes fine, no Charlton fans misbehave towards him and he goes home having seen his team lose 5 - 0.
Just don't come on here afterwards complaining about the Club or the Stewards for throwing you out or confiscating your ST.
The days when football fans mixed are sadly long long gone. I have stood in the Millwall end at their old ground when Charlton were the visitors, that was over twenty years ago though. Later the same season a sizeable number stood in our end at Selhurst & guess what it all kicked off.
I can guarantee that there will be Millwall in our end & I can also guarantee that the Charlton fans who let them in will not see another home game this season. Life is all about choices, but do try to make the right one.
[quote][cite]Posted By: J BLOCK[/cite]A few Wall seem to think alot of them will travel to the game with or without a ticket.[/quote]
Heard the same this morning one wall who is on a 5 year ban said he cant get one, so will just turn up anyway and reckons he will get a ticket in our end easy
Possible Millwall in the North Upper last night checking the place out at half time , poncing drinks of people , smoking in the stairwell , complete disregard for anyone .
i think there was a millwall bloke in the ladies toilet too last night... when i went in he was just coming out and had dumped his fag down the loo... he realised he was in the wrong loo as he bounced off the wall going out.
Segregation is a condition of the safety certificate, which is required in law by the local authority before they can licence use of the stadium. It's not just policy, it's legally binding - although I accept the legal obligation is enforceable against the club rather than the individual offender.
[cite]Posted By: Shag[/cite]Possible Millwall in the North Upper last night checking the place out at half time , poncing drinks of people , smoking in the stairwell , complete disregard for anyone .
I honestly cant see why these mugs wanna sit in our end anyway. Two bob plastic gangsters. Sit/stand with your own scumbag fans.
Im not violent and i wouldnt usually condone it but if they are in our end trying to cause trouble, i really do hope they get a good hidin!
I think people are taking the stipulation about not allowing Millwall fans into home areas a little too literally. Of course there is potential for trouble at this game and I agree fully with the steps that the club have taken to prevent it. But the club are not saying you will lose your season if you buy a ticket for a Millwall fan. They are saying you will lose your season ticket if you buy a ticket for a Millwall fan who identifies himself as a Millwall fan during the game by wearing colours or cheering a Millwall goal etc. They are saying if you want to bring a friend or relative who is a Millwall fan into the home areas it is your responsibility to be absolutely sure they are not going to identify themselves as such.
Millwall have a larger than normal following of violent football yobs. There is no question about that. But that element is no more than 15% or 20%. That means there are 80% who are normal properly behaved football fans like most people who post here and would pose no problem if they were sitting in home areas.
A lot of people that post on this board seem to be from Kent and places even further afield and maybe don't appreciate that a lot of Charlton fans who were brought up in south east London grew up along side Millwall fans, have friends, cousins, uncles, aunts, brother-inlaws, grandfathers and maybe even brothers and sisters who are Millwall fans.
I happen to know very well, because he is my mate’s father-in-law, the famous Millwall Grandad. I drink with my mate, who is a Charlton season ticket holder, and this Millwall supporter most Friday nights. This Millwall fan is the nicest bloke you could wish to meet but I would not dream of buying him a ticket in the home area because there is a big risk he would identify himself. I know other Millwall supporters for whom I would not hesitate to buy a ticket for the home area. I know one Charlton fan who has bought a ticket for the husband of one of his cousins who is a Millwall fan. He did not need to think twice about it because he knows it won’t be a problem. Being the xmas period I feel certain that scenario will be played out many times over.
Having said all that I am sure there will still be some Charlton season ticket holders who have been persuaded against their better judgement to buy tickets for friends or relatives who support Millwall and there will be skirmishes when those friends or relatives are unable to remain neutral. If they lose their season ticket as a result they have no one to blame but themselves.
[cite]Posted By: Red_in_SE8[/cite]...grew up along side Millwall fans, have friends, cousins, uncles, aunts, brother-inlaws, grandfathers and maybe even brothers and sisters who are Millwall fans.
Comments
Nope.
Oh come on; if my 60 year old uncle said whey-hey when Millwall scored, what's the worse that could happen?
Everton and Liverpool have always been mature about the whole thing, why can't we? Our clubs divide families and that's a fact. If my uncle's reaction caused trouble it wouldn't be our fault. If he was an Exeter fan you wouldn't have a problem. What's the difference?
The difference is, if it was Exeter it might be overlooked or a quiet word said. With this game, the hype and rivalry will see it be far more than that.
Spot on. Whether you like it or not, that is the way it is and the way it will continue to be so for the foreseeable future.
Personally, I often sit in the home end at away games and as I behave myself, I don't ever anticipate trouble. My Uncle Alan would be the same as me. He may turn round to me and give me a dig if they score, but that's it. If anything happened it would be the fault of those that chose to make something of it, rather than me and Alan's who are just there as uncle and nephew watching a game of soccer.
Things have changed Isaw, I don't think it will be a massive deal on December 19th. The club's ticketing policy will deal with that and as long as us ST holders operate discretion in which Millwall fans we take as guests, it won't be a problem.
Cheers.
You are missing the point really, what you are doing is wrong in the eyes of the club. Feel free to go ahead with it, but it wouldn't take much for a steward to eject your uncle, follow it through with the club and you lose your S/T or worse, which is not what I or you would want to happen to a fellow Charlton fan (I take it).
I have no problem with you taking your uncle, but you can still spend the day and have a christmas drink with your uncle, while sitting in seperate ends. :-)
"And with demand from opposition supporters likely to exceed the Lions' allocation, the club is putting in place a series of measures to prevent away fans gaining tickets in home areas."
""Ultimately, however, we are reliant on the common sense and co-operation of our own fans, so we are asking for their help in maintaining segregation within the stadium.
"This does not mean that we regard every Millwall fan as a potential hooligan and we understand that your family member or friend might not cause any problems. However, experience tells us that an away fan in a home area is just as likely to run into problems from our own supporters."
"Any Millwall fan identified in a home area will be liable to ejection, and sanctions will be pursued against the person who purchased the ticket on his or her behalf."
The sanctions will include confiscation of season tickets without compensation, in accordance with item three in the terms and conditions listed in supporters' season-ticket booklets."
LINK
It doesn't matter if the Pope was a Millwall fan AshTray, the club simply do not want Millwall supporters in our end, whether they get their tickets through "kind" relatives or friends or through rigging the red card system.
I'm pretty sure it will also be in some Football Legislation about the circumstances for legitimate ejection and in every single club's terms and conditions of the Ground. Strictly speaking you are wrong in principle and wrong in the eyes of the law. However unfair this may seem, it's just a fact... I didn't make it up and neither did anyone disagreeing with you on here.
As for the Liverpool/Everton stuff, that's I think what Sky want you to believe in... the "friendly" derby, i'd say it's only been that way for the last ten years or so, maybe less, before that it was pretty bad tempered on and off the pitch
The club have to say these things, and I'm glad they do, but when it comes down to it, there are no laws to stop Uncle Alan and me sitting together on December 19th.
You're joking by the way! If anything the rivalry has worsened over the years. You might not remember the 85 cup final etc. Liverpool fans helping Everton jump walls to get in etc.
Cos if you do and it kicks off whatever the rights or wrongs or who started it YOU are the one who is going to lose their season ticket.
And you can moan as much as you like about that not being fair or only policy not the law but that's the way it is. Your risk to take and if you do decide to bring him I really hope it goes fine, no Charlton fans misbehave towards him and he goes home having seen his team lose 5 - 0.
Just don't come on here afterwards complaining about the Club or the Stewards for throwing you out or confiscating your ST.
What? All that way?!! ;-)
I can guarantee that there will be Millwall in our end & I can also guarantee that the Charlton fans who let them in will not see another home game this season. Life is all about choices, but do try to make the right one.
Heard the same this morning one wall who is on a 5 year ban said he cant get one, so will just turn up anyway and reckons he will get a ticket in our end easy
I was at the emirates come pre-season in the arsenal end and god knows how many arsenal fans I annoyed with my bouncy bouncy and chanting!
Cricket & Rugby are different sports and segregation would be a bad thing there.
And could an admin stop the use of the words soccer & 'wall?
I honestly cant see why these mugs wanna sit in our end anyway. Two bob plastic gangsters. Sit/stand with your own scumbag fans.
Im not violent and i wouldnt usually condone it but if they are in our end trying to cause trouble, i really do hope they get a good hidin!
Millwall have a larger than normal following of violent football yobs. There is no question about that. But that element is no more than 15% or 20%. That means there are 80% who are normal properly behaved football fans like most people who post here and would pose no problem if they were sitting in home areas.
A lot of people that post on this board seem to be from Kent and places even further afield and maybe don't appreciate that a lot of Charlton fans who were brought up in south east London grew up along side Millwall fans, have friends, cousins, uncles, aunts, brother-inlaws, grandfathers and maybe even brothers and sisters who are Millwall fans.
I happen to know very well, because he is my mate’s father-in-law, the famous Millwall Grandad. I drink with my mate, who is a Charlton season ticket holder, and this Millwall supporter most Friday nights. This Millwall fan is the nicest bloke you could wish to meet but I would not dream of buying him a ticket in the home area because there is a big risk he would identify himself. I know other Millwall supporters for whom I would not hesitate to buy a ticket for the home area. I know one Charlton fan who has bought a ticket for the husband of one of his cousins who is a Millwall fan. He did not need to think twice about it because he knows it won’t be a problem. Being the xmas period I feel certain that scenario will be played out many times over.
Having said all that I am sure there will still be some Charlton season ticket holders who have been persuaded against their better judgement to buy tickets for friends or relatives who support Millwall and there will be skirmishes when those friends or relatives are unable to remain neutral. If they lose their season ticket as a result they have no one to blame but themselves.
There's a song about that !
i have never been surer than anything than the fact that after the 19th, our younger fans will finally realise what it's like to play in a derby.