I was pleased to see Jonjo back in the side as the game kicked off at Northwich.
He worked really hard, showed some passion and occasionally some good forward runs.
But surely Jonjo's role in a 4-4-1-1 is to play in the hole? .....on Sunday he seemed to play so deep, often getting so caught up that he was playing alongside Semedo and behind Racon.
Result .... we had no one linking midfield with attack (apart from Youga's forays up the line) and nobody supporting McLeod completely isolated up front - so the ball kept coming back, putting our defence under pressure.
Now if Jonjo had played more centrally between midfield and striker that might have made a difference?
I'm not blaming an inexperienced 17 year old - he has a manager on the touchline and a captain on the park.
Surely, a little communication wouldn't have gone amiss.....?
During a game at any level, you work out the things that seem to be successful and try to do them more frequently ... and identify the things that are not good and try to eliminate them. So, if the opposing full back is slow, you get the ball in behind him or take him on in a straight sprint. If the central defender is strong in the air, you keep the ball down. If your own defence is vulnerable to a cross, you try to cut out the crosses at source.
At the moment, we don't seem to have the ability to identify these things and react accordingly.
Shelvey played a great little through ball into the area late-ish in the Northwich game. It was slightly overhit and the keeper came to collect it, but it was just the right idea. McLeod, for all his faults, might have done something with that kind of service if we had done it throughout the match.
I wonder if the pre-match and half-time team talks deal with this kind of thing ... or whether it's all just "Enjoy yourselves, lads. Let's hope we win."
We had Jonjo picking the ball up on halfway as he was starved of it otherwise and just Mcleod up on his own. As Oggy said the movement off the ball is non-existent and as no midfielders are running beyond the striker we are creating no chances. If we play one up front we have to make sure that the midfield support and create in the final third. There is no dynamism in this team at the moment. I would try Mckenzie with Shelvey just behind on Saturday and tell Jonjo that we don't want to see him coming back to pick the ball up in areas where he can't hurt the opposition.
I agree with you Oggy. Thats where he should be to be effective, i think what the trouble is that being onlt 17 he gets frustrated with not getting the ball. Our mid field couldn't find one of our own players the whole game and the defence just hit balls high up in the air for their defence to head back. I think he goes looking for the ball (rightly or wrongly) because he isn't getting the service, i'm in no way saying he didn't play as badly as some of the others but to say he was interested (as some have said on various posts) is completely wrong. If your not interested you dont drop deep to go looking for the ball, you just hide. Anyway Oggy when are you up next ?
Exactly, Uncle. It's natural for a young player to follow the ball and get drawn out of position.
And Jonjo certainly didn't hide, unlike Racon for example.
But why didn't his skipper or any other player just tell Jonjo to keep his position and work the hole .... ???
He can make any amount of movement with a free role, providing he's still doing the link up job and in a position and available to receive the ball in the right areas.
The team function better and keep shape with good outlets when relieving pressure or moving forward with the ball.
Uncle, next match for me is Yeovil away in a couple of weeks. Going?
Totally agree mate but the lack of talking from any of them let alone the captain is terrible, its almost like they dont know each other. Yes mate i'm going to that one, i'm driving and staying over
I haven't read the match thread or all the Suicide Squad posts, so apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere.
Tactically our game on Sunday first fell apart when we had no idea how to handle the Northwich man mountain centreback.
This monster was physically head and shoulders bigger than any other player on the park, so we could only mark him with our barely 6 foot centrebacks.
Surely, watching our defence physically unable to get near this player, I wonder why Parky did not appreciate the need for a like for like in this situation - and bring on 6' 4" tall Llera....?
Llera could have been tasked to everytime physically block Mat Bailey, at least to get the aerial challenge in and get in his face everytime those cannonball throws came in.
Sure we would have had to sacrifice another player, with maybe 3 CB's at the back, and 2 wingbacks in a 3-5-2. Sure, it's not a formation that's too popular these days - but it may well have negated the Northwich "secret weapon", which caught everybody by "surprise".
[cite]Posted By: queensland_addick[/cite]He has proved himself to be tactically naive, and the team changes that you suggested would have been the obvious way of trying to address the lack of creativity problem. Playing wingers on the wing, and midfielders in midfield is not a bad idea against non league opposition or any other team. But where Parky has really screwed up badly is not finding a front two who operate well together. That hasn't been helped by him sending two senior forwards out on loan at the same team and relying almost completely on one player up front, Dion Burton. What we saw on Sunday was a team that has forgotten how to play football. They have forgotten how to move into space, how to pick a pass, how to shoot at goal. And the reason they have forgotten is because they haven't done it for so long. They became stale and ran out of ideas and confidence. But Parky couldn't see it and rather than change things before the results started to turn negative, he stuck with it until we started losing.
Your confusing tactical naivety with a lack of options though.
Our only left winger is Luke Holden, but considering he's most likely not good enough, should he just play him anyway? If he did that he'd be called tactically naive, Bailey scored most of his goals playing on the left last season and won player of the year for his performances there. It might not be working now, but we don't have the options out on the left.
Not finding a front two that work well together - unfortunately Dickson, McLeod and Fleetwood are all similar players, certainly can't play together. He took a gamble on a free striker with injury problems, McKenzie, who if fit should be good in this league. I suppose he could have kept Fleetwood around, but he's not exactly impressed for Exeter to have made much difference anyway. Dickson we're almost certain him going out on loan is for a number of reasons, both on the pitch and off the pitch.
I get what you're saying but I can see the reasons he's set up the team like he has. I just don't see this simple solution you're suggesting is there. Sunday's performance I agree, they couldn't pass, move or get a shot in on goal. Problem is, there is no one good enough to play on the left (and we know we tried to sign a left winger, Puncheon being on example) and up front with Burton and McLeod being the only fit (well Burton isn't any more) senior strikers there just aren't many options. Though Parky can see we're struggling to create chances, and on Sunday, saw just as much as anyone the performance was far from good enough. It's not as if he didn't see these problems and had plenty of options but wasn't using them.
At least tomorrow Mooney is available and McKenzie should be closer to match fitness. He can also give the likes of Wagstaff a chance, even if they're not good enough it'll show he's trying to sort the problems out.
And just for interest, to cope with Mat Bailey's aerial ability, here's the first change I would have made after just 20 minutes - and how the team would be set out ...3-5-2:
.....................Randolph;
........Sodje ....... Llera ........ Dailly;
Semedo...................................Youga;
.........................Bailey;
..............Shelvey............Racon;
.....................Sam;
............................McLeod;
Obviously Omo would have been withdrawn, Semedo to wing back and Bailey central and anchor; Jonjo and Racon to supply the drive and Sam given a free rein around McLeod, to run at the soft underbelly of their defence.
I'm not necessarily suggesting this formation and team for league matches, but IMO I reckon it could have gone a good way with dealing with the cannonball throw & Bailey's physical presence, that all match we couldn't cope with.
Lloyd Sam is the missing left winger. He generally dribbles the ball with his left foot even when playing on the right .... or has no-one else noticed that?
Regarding the aerial threat of Matt Bailey at Northwich... did that really come as a surprise to us? Did no-one think to watch Northwich before the game or check with our mates at Welling, for example? Maybe that would be construed as paying them too much respect.
Or unprofessional?
Let's all hope that MK Dons don't have any secret weapons.
Did I read somewhere that Mat Bailey and the long throw man were "rested" when the Charlton scouts came to a match to check out the Northwich team ....?
If so .....LMAO! ..... talk about being outwitted.
Scoham, I said I agreed with David Rudds original post in which he suggested Sam on the left, Wagstaff on the right. Wingers often switch flanks and it can be used to great effect. So that was the suggestion for the left wing. As for Parky being able to see what's happening regarding not creating chances, so why then did he wait until 15 minutes from time before bringing on Burton/Mckenzie. The world and his dog could see that it need changing at half time, we were lucky to go into half time at 0-0. Yes he has a limited squad, but that has been partially of his own making. He hasn't even had the option of trying out different strike partnerships, because he sent half the strikers we had at the club out on loan at the same time.
Whats more annoying is the fact the playeer and management didnt even acknowledge us at full time after that long journey from london we didn't get anything and that frustrates me alot.
[cite]Posted By: J BLOCK[/cite]Whats more annoying is the fact the playeer and management didnt even acknowledge us at full time after that long journey from london we didn't get anything and that frustrates me alot.
If you did get acknowledged, what would you have done back?
Then, considering your answer to your own question, ask yourself whether you would have just sloped off, embarrassed knowing you had been cack in front of the whole nation.
[cite]Posted By: J BLOCK[/cite]Whats more annoying is the fact the playeer and management didnt even acknowledge us at full time after that long journey from london we didn't get anything and that frustrates me alot.
I really like the OP, very thoughtful and reasonable.
Also: Oggy's suggestion on the team to combat the lump looks pretty textbook if you don't happen to have a Darius Henderson type player outside of your defence to cope with it. Another small point on that kind of tactic is using it as a counter attacking opportunity. Anybody who has ever played football will tell you that it is unusual to have the opposition commit their centre back so far up the feild every time they get a throw in your half, so there's a tremendous opportunity to get in behind them on the break. Maybe if we'd exploited (what I consider to be) his one asset (pace) the headlines about McLeod would have been a bit different. Or, if we'd left him right up the pitch, maybe they'd have been intimidated and left Bailey back, more.
Basically anything apart from backing up and inviting them on.
[cite]Posted By: McLovin[/cite]I really like the OP, very thoughtful and reasonable.
Also: Oggy's suggestion on the team to combat the lump looks pretty textbook if you don't happen to have a Darius Henderson type player outside of your defence to cope with it. Another small point on that kind of tactic is using it as a counter attacking opportunity. Anybody who has ever played football will tell you that it is unusual to have the opposition commit their centre back so far up the feild every time they get a throw in your half, so there's a tremendous opportunity to get in behind them on the break. Maybe if we'd exploited (what I consider to be) his one asset (pace) the headlines about McLeod would have been a bit different. Or, if we'd left him right up the pitch, maybe they'd have been intimidated and left Bailey back, more.
Basically anything apart from backing up and inviting them on.
It's amazing that several of us can come up with basic and obvious strategies to deal with their one tactic of the cannonball throw and the Lump ...... yet our management team had no idea at all.
[cite]Posted By: Dave Rudd[/cite]Did no-one think to watch Northwich before the game or check with our mates at Welling, for example? .
What have Welling got to do with it? They play in a different league.
Blue Square North ... Blue Square South .... similar enough, I suggest, that one club would know a bit about the other.
Put it this way ... the Northwich fans knew enough to taunt us with "You're just a small club in Welling".
Not sure how you work that out. NV play in the North League and Welling play in the South and never the twain shall meet in the League, unless they were promoted to the Blue Sq prem.
[cite]Posted By: Dave Rudd[/cite]Did no-one think to watch Northwich before the game or check with our mates at Welling, for example? .
What have Welling got to do with it? They play in a different league.
Blue Square North ... Blue Square South .... similar enough, I suggest, that one club would know a bit about the other.
Put it this way ... the Northwich fans knew enough to taunt us with "You're just a small club in Welling".
Not sure how you work that out. NV play in the North League and Welling play in the South and never the twain shall meet in the League, unless they were promoted to the Blue Sq prem.
Hmm ... this does seem to be proving a little tricky, doesn't it?
Not really a big point, but surely it's fair to assume that people who know about the Blue Square League might be more aware of other teams and players in the same league, even if they are not in the same division.
In the same way, I'd expect you to know quite a bit more about, say, Bournemouth rather than East Fife.
The main point, though, is not about Welling or Bournemouth or East Fife. It's about why the Northwich 'long throw to big lump' tactic apparently came as a surprise to us.
[cite]Posted By: Dave Rudd[/cite] It's about why the Northwich 'long throw to big lump' tactic apparently came as a surprise to us.
Exactly, Dave.
So:
1) Who didn't do their homework properly?
2) Why after 20 mins when it was obvious to everyone that we couldn't cope with the Lump at set pieces, didn't Parky adapt the team to deal with it?
Anyone, not least a professional football manager, should have seen what to do - and do something about it.
I bet the Northwich manager couldn't believe his luck that we didn't do anything about it.
[cite]Posted By: Dave Rudd[/cite]Did no-one think to watch Northwich before the game or check with our mates at Welling, for example? .
What have Welling got to do with it? They play in a different league.
Blue Square North ... Blue Square South .... similar enough, I suggest, that one club would know a bit about the other.
According to the OS on Friday Phil Chapple had seen them play the previous week.
Put it this way ... the Northwich fans knew enough to taunt us with "You're just a small club in Welling".
Not sure how you work that out. NV play in the North League and Welling play in the South and never the twain shall meet in the League, unless they were promoted to the Blue Sq prem.
Hmm ... this does seem to be proving a little tricky, doesn't it?
Not really a big point, but surely it's fair to assume that people who know about the Blue Square League might be more aware of other teams and players in the same league, even if they are not in the same division.
In the same way, I'd expect you to know quite a bit more about, say, Bournemouth rather than East Fife.
The main point, though, is not about Welling or Bournemouth or East Fife. It's about why the Northwich 'long throw to big lump' tactic apparently came as a surprise to us.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]
2) Why after 20 mins when it was obvious to everyone that we couldn't cope with the Lump at set pieces, didn't Parky adapt the team to deal with it?
....
Incredible ..... almost to the point of inept.
It does seem to support the view that the management team aren't very capable when it comes to moving things around when the overused Plan A isn't working.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]
2) Why after 20 mins when it was obvious to everyone that we couldn't cope with the Lump at set pieces, didn't Parky adapt the team to deal with it?
....
Incredible ..... almost to the point of inept.
It does seem to support the view that the management team aren't very capable when it comes to moving things around when the overused Plan A isn't working.
Indeed, let's hope Pardew hasn't been scouring his reserves and youth team for a Lurch-a-like...
[cite]Posted By: Dave Rudd[/cite]It's about why the Northwich 'long throw to big lump' tactic apparently came as a surprise to us.
Exactly, Dave.
So:
1) Who didn't do their homework properly?
2) Why after 20 mins when it was obvious to everyone that we couldn't cope with the Lump at set pieces, didn't Parky adapt the team to deal with it?
Anyone, not least a professional football manager, should have seen what to do - and do something about it.
I bet the Northwich manager couldn't believe his luck that we didn't do anything about it.
Incredible ..... almost to the point of inept.
Stoke & Rory Delap have been doing it for years and no one has worked out how to stop it.
I suppose you could get Valuev on loan for 1 game :-)
it was their centre half who was coming into our area at each throw/corner/free-kick. the ball was aimed for him each and every time without fail.not once did we try to break quick or have randolph come for everything.nothing was done to leave them doubting whether they could carry on this tactic,which of course they did.
our players were still at a loss as to how no one was supposed to be picking him up to even think about going on the offensive themselves.parky just stood in his zone and watched.
Your long throw tactic to the big guy. Do you do this regularly ?
I ask because some CAFC fans have commented that we should have been aware of this, by either having you watched or by asking Welling. Would it be reasonable to suppose Welling know your players ? Do you know theirs ? North and South divisions and all that.
TrickyMark replied :-
There was only 1 game for you to scout us between the draw & the match - a 2-2 draw at Stafford.
We had our captain (Grand) in defence - replaced by Kerr (5)
Our main striker played & scored (Danks) - replaced by Newby (9)
Herring, the long throw man was rested, so you didn't see him in action.
Bailey, the big guy, dropped a ricket for one of their goals.
Yes, we do use the long throw sometimes, but only as & when as most teams in our league have 2 massive defenders. Against you, we seemed to be playing for throw-ins.
We've not played Welling for ages, but we were in the same league ~15 years ago. One of their guys came on our board with a 'song request', so we obliged for the sake of N-L fraternity.......
If you like a laugh, I recommend clicking on the music vid posted by Northwich Tricker - it's spot on.
Comments
He worked really hard, showed some passion and occasionally some good forward runs.
But surely Jonjo's role in a 4-4-1-1 is to play in the hole? .....on Sunday he seemed to play so deep, often getting so caught up that he was playing alongside Semedo and behind Racon.
Result .... we had no one linking midfield with attack (apart from Youga's forays up the line) and nobody supporting McLeod completely isolated up front - so the ball kept coming back, putting our defence under pressure.
Now if Jonjo had played more centrally between midfield and striker that might have made a difference?
I'm not blaming an inexperienced 17 year old - he has a manager on the touchline and a captain on the park.
Surely, a little communication wouldn't have gone amiss.....?
During a game at any level, you work out the things that seem to be successful and try to do them more frequently ... and identify the things that are not good and try to eliminate them. So, if the opposing full back is slow, you get the ball in behind him or take him on in a straight sprint. If the central defender is strong in the air, you keep the ball down. If your own defence is vulnerable to a cross, you try to cut out the crosses at source.
At the moment, we don't seem to have the ability to identify these things and react accordingly.
Shelvey played a great little through ball into the area late-ish in the Northwich game. It was slightly overhit and the keeper came to collect it, but it was just the right idea. McLeod, for all his faults, might have done something with that kind of service if we had done it throughout the match.
I wonder if the pre-match and half-time team talks deal with this kind of thing ... or whether it's all just "Enjoy yourselves, lads. Let's hope we win."
And Jonjo certainly didn't hide, unlike Racon for example.
But why didn't his skipper or any other player just tell Jonjo to keep his position and work the hole .... ???
He can make any amount of movement with a free role, providing he's still doing the link up job and in a position and available to receive the ball in the right areas.
The team function better and keep shape with good outlets when relieving pressure or moving forward with the ball.
Uncle, next match for me is Yeovil away in a couple of weeks. Going?
Tactically our game on Sunday first fell apart when we had no idea how to handle the Northwich man mountain centreback.
This monster was physically head and shoulders bigger than any other player on the park, so we could only mark him with our barely 6 foot centrebacks.
Surely, watching our defence physically unable to get near this player, I wonder why Parky did not appreciate the need for a like for like in this situation - and bring on 6' 4" tall Llera....?
Llera could have been tasked to everytime physically block Mat Bailey, at least to get the aerial challenge in and get in his face everytime those cannonball throws came in.
Sure we would have had to sacrifice another player, with maybe 3 CB's at the back, and 2 wingbacks in a 3-5-2. Sure, it's not a formation that's too popular these days - but it may well have negated the Northwich "secret weapon", which caught everybody by "surprise".
Our only left winger is Luke Holden, but considering he's most likely not good enough, should he just play him anyway? If he did that he'd be called tactically naive, Bailey scored most of his goals playing on the left last season and won player of the year for his performances there. It might not be working now, but we don't have the options out on the left.
Not finding a front two that work well together - unfortunately Dickson, McLeod and Fleetwood are all similar players, certainly can't play together. He took a gamble on a free striker with injury problems, McKenzie, who if fit should be good in this league. I suppose he could have kept Fleetwood around, but he's not exactly impressed for Exeter to have made much difference anyway. Dickson we're almost certain him going out on loan is for a number of reasons, both on the pitch and off the pitch.
I get what you're saying but I can see the reasons he's set up the team like he has. I just don't see this simple solution you're suggesting is there. Sunday's performance I agree, they couldn't pass, move or get a shot in on goal. Problem is, there is no one good enough to play on the left (and we know we tried to sign a left winger, Puncheon being on example) and up front with Burton and McLeod being the only fit (well Burton isn't any more) senior strikers there just aren't many options. Though Parky can see we're struggling to create chances, and on Sunday, saw just as much as anyone the performance was far from good enough. It's not as if he didn't see these problems and had plenty of options but wasn't using them.
At least tomorrow Mooney is available and McKenzie should be closer to match fitness. He can also give the likes of Wagstaff a chance, even if they're not good enough it'll show he's trying to sort the problems out.
.....................Randolph;
........Sodje ....... Llera ........ Dailly;
Semedo...................................Youga;
.........................Bailey;
..............Shelvey............Racon;
.....................Sam;
............................McLeod;
Obviously Omo would have been withdrawn, Semedo to wing back and Bailey central and anchor; Jonjo and Racon to supply the drive and Sam given a free rein around McLeod, to run at the soft underbelly of their defence.
I'm not necessarily suggesting this formation and team for league matches, but IMO I reckon it could have gone a good way with dealing with the cannonball throw & Bailey's physical presence, that all match we couldn't cope with.
Regarding the aerial threat of Matt Bailey at Northwich... did that really come as a surprise to us? Did no-one think to watch Northwich before the game or check with our mates at Welling, for example? Maybe that would be construed as paying them too much respect.
Or unprofessional?
Let's all hope that MK Dons don't have any secret weapons.
If so .....LMAO! ..... talk about being outwitted.
I said I agreed with David Rudds original post in which he suggested Sam on the left, Wagstaff on the right. Wingers often switch flanks and it can be used to great effect. So that was the suggestion for the left wing.
As for Parky being able to see what's happening regarding not creating chances, so why then did he wait until 15 minutes from time before bringing on Burton/Mckenzie. The world and his dog could see that it need changing at half time, we were lucky to go into half time at 0-0.
Yes he has a limited squad, but that has been partially of his own making. He hasn't even had the option of trying out different strike partnerships, because he sent half the strikers we had at the club out on loan at the same time.
What have Welling got to do with it? They play in a different league.
Blue Square North ... Blue Square South .... similar enough, I suggest, that one club would know a bit about the other.
Put it this way ... the Northwich fans knew enough to taunt us with "You're just a small club in Welling".
Then, considering your answer to your own question, ask yourself whether you would have just sloped off, embarrassed knowing you had been cack in front of the whole nation.
Also: Oggy's suggestion on the team to combat the lump looks pretty textbook if you don't happen to have a Darius Henderson type player outside of your defence to cope with it. Another small point on that kind of tactic is using it as a counter attacking opportunity. Anybody who has ever played football will tell you that it is unusual to have the opposition commit their centre back so far up the feild every time they get a throw in your half, so there's a tremendous opportunity to get in behind them on the break. Maybe if we'd exploited (what I consider to be) his one asset (pace) the headlines about McLeod would have been a bit different. Or, if we'd left him right up the pitch, maybe they'd have been intimidated and left Bailey back, more.
Basically anything apart from backing up and inviting them on.
It's amazing that several of us can come up with basic and obvious strategies to deal with their one tactic of the cannonball throw and the Lump ...... yet our management team had no idea at all.
Not sure how you work that out. NV play in the North League and Welling play in the South and never the twain shall meet in the League, unless they were promoted to the Blue Sq prem.
Hmm ... this does seem to be proving a little tricky, doesn't it?
Not really a big point, but surely it's fair to assume that people who know about the Blue Square League might be more aware of other teams and players in the same league, even if they are not in the same division.
In the same way, I'd expect you to know quite a bit more about, say, Bournemouth rather than East Fife.
The main point, though, is not about Welling or Bournemouth or East Fife. It's about why the Northwich 'long throw to big lump' tactic apparently came as a surprise to us.
Exactly, Dave.
So:
1) Who didn't do their homework properly?
2) Why after 20 mins when it was obvious to everyone that we couldn't cope with the Lump at set pieces, didn't Parky adapt the team to deal with it?
Anyone, not least a professional football manager, should have seen what to do - and do something about it.
I bet the Northwich manager couldn't believe his luck that we didn't do anything about it.
Incredible ..... almost to the point of inept.
Indeed, let's hope Pardew hasn't been scouring his reserves and youth team for a Lurch-a-like...
Stoke & Rory Delap have been doing it for years and no one has worked out how to stop it.
I suppose you could get Valuev on loan for 1 game :-)
our players were still at a loss as to how no one was supposed to be picking him up to even think about going on the offensive themselves.parky just stood in his zone and watched.
To our NV friends :-
Your long throw tactic to the big guy. Do you do this regularly ?
I ask because some CAFC fans have commented that we should have been aware of this, by either having you watched or by asking Welling. Would it be reasonable to suppose Welling know your players ? Do you know theirs ? North and South divisions and all that.
TrickyMark replied :-
There was only 1 game for you to scout us between the draw & the match - a 2-2 draw at Stafford.
We had our captain (Grand) in defence - replaced by Kerr (5)
Our main striker played & scored (Danks) - replaced by Newby (9)
Herring, the long throw man was rested, so you didn't see him in action.
Bailey, the big guy, dropped a ricket for one of their goals.
Yes, we do use the long throw sometimes, but only as & when as most teams in our league have 2 massive defenders. Against you, we seemed to be playing for throw-ins.
We've not played Welling for ages, but we were in the same league ~15 years ago. One of their guys came on our board with a 'song request', so we obliged for the sake of N-L fraternity.......
If you like a laugh, I recommend clicking on the music vid posted by Northwich Tricker - it's spot on.