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NO more loan signings!

edited November 2009 in General Charlton
Last season we where 'plagued' with loan singings and short term transfers and in my opinion had a huge part in our relegation. Now, im not one of those people who think that parky should go i think hes done quiet well and done well to achieve stability and more this season with our funds i think hes done a good job. But for every injury you cant respond with a loan signing (maybe the right-back couldn't be helped but playing a center backs there isn't so bad) and its obvious he has no faith in Randolph (http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11684_5674252,00.html ) i haven't seen Randolph play much but the times i have i didnt think he was to bad (apart from the Southampton game 2 seasons ago) if i was the manager i would have stuck with Randolph and with Binks on the bench

One more thing..... i think its time to bring back Shelvey

p.s this is my first post so let me know what you think
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Comments

  • edited November 2009
    welcome

    Some loans are good (Carson, Murty, Costa, Ward) and some aren't.

    Plenty of clubs have used the loan system well including Leeds with Volkes. If a loan player can improve the squad then go for it.

    I suspect that Richardson will return while Ikeme and Mooney can't play on Sunday anyway so not really an issue.

    Shelvey will be back sooner or later but he wasn't playing that well and needed a rest.
  • edited November 2009
    [cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]welcome

    Some loans are good (Carson, Murty, Costa, Ward) and some aren't.

    Plenty of clubs have used the loan system well including Leeds with Volkes. If a loan player can improve the squad then go for it.

    I suspect that Richardson will return while Ikeme and Mooney can't play on Sunday anyway so not really an issue.

    Shelvey will be back sooner or later but he wasn't playing that well and needed a rest.

    Do you mean Vokes ? ;)
  • i understand some loan signings are good but when one team has a few to many it could take a turn for the worse but it seems to be going well for Q.P.R lets just hope Elliot can recover as soon as possible and we can get back on track, also looking foward to seeing more of McKenzie
  • I agree with your sentiments exactly, especially after the Pardew debacle of two years ago when we had new debutants every week. The only thing I would say though is that the keeper was essential as you need two in the squad at all times as far as i'm concerned. Randolph gets a chance on Sunday so hopefully he can show us that he's up to the job and the loanee can go on the bench until Elliot is fit again.

    I disagreed with bringing in a right back though as I think we could still make do with what we go whether it be putting Youga over there or even Semedo. And Parky did say he wasn't going to go down the loanee route................
  • edited November 2009
    Henry Irving enthused : ''Some loans are good (Carson, Murty, Costa, Ward)''

    I'd rephrase that to say some loans are OK...ish. The only contribution any of those four made to something you could vaguely describe as Charlton ''success'' was the two dozen games Costa played for us in 2001-2.

    Carson, Murty and Ward could not stop us getting relegated - indeed, you could argue they all played their part in our decline.

    It's become a silly cliche that you don't win anything with kids. But give me Busby Babes over Borrowed Boys any time.

    So welcome Merty 111. Apart from Henry Irving, you will find an awful lot of people on here who basically agree with you.
  • Nigel......extremely harsh on Carson. He was excellent for us that year. Had probably 1 bad game (Blackburn away). Imho, without him we would have been down b4 easter.
  • murty?
  • Murty was a liability, looked shonked after 50 minutes every game I saw him play in, Carson was a superb signing, Jorge Costa also was an astute signing and Darren Ward just showed up how poor we were as he stood out a mile as our best player.

    I'd rather have a proper right footed full back playing at right back than a left footed player playing on the wrong side
  • I agree with Clem - to argue that Ward and Carson did not add to/benefit the side, but contributed to our decline, is a little harsh Nigel to say the least!
  • edited November 2009
    [cite]Posted By: Clem_Snide[/cite]Nigel......extremely harsh on Carson. He was excellent for us that year. Had probably 1 bad game (Blackburn away). Imho, without him we would have been down b4 easter.

    Player of the season too. He was the poster child for what a loan player should be imho.
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  • no nigel, as you can read not just me.

    I'm surprised that such an articulate man would use the 'everyone else thinks like me so i'm right' arguement.

    Didn't Ibsen say 'the majority is always wrong.

    Anyway if Solly and Elliot had not had significant injuries it would seem unlikely that Ikeme or Omozus would be here. Sometimes circumstances dictate.
  • edited November 2009
    Agreed Carson was a decent keeper and a shame we couldn't have signed him permanently. But he wasn't good enough to keep us up, was he?

    So the basic question still remains: how many loanees have actually achieved what they were brought in to do ? That's where I agree with Merty 111's original post. Experience shows us that shoring up a struggling side with borrowed players does not work.

    Quite possibly promoting young players from within our own ranks wouldn't have worked , either. But the outcome could not have been any worse than two relegations in three seasons and would arguably have left us better prepared for longer-term rebuilding.

    As it happens, I think this season may be different. Where loan players might work is bringing them into a successful side as short-term cover for injuries , as long as it is used sparingly as a policy and we are confident they are top-notch players and fully fit. But parachuting borrowed players into a side that is losing badly and spirallingly downwards has been proven not to work as any kind of fix whatsoever, short-term or long-term.
  • Was Ibsen a loan signing as well?
  • edited November 2009
    Kitson
    Heaney
    Hendry
    Costa

    The point about Carson is facile. One player can not be blamed or credited with relegation or keeping a club up. As Carson was one loanee alongside 10 permanent players why single out the loan player as reason for relegation when Carson won Player of the Year. I didn't actually rate him that highly but to say he was a failure is just a desperate attempt to dismiss any evidence that is contrary to your prejudices.

    Good loans at the right time = good

    Bad loans at the wrong time = bad

    Wrong IMHO to say that because Pardew overused and abused the loan system we must forever more avoid it so playing other players out of position and have no experienced keeper as back up for league games.

    What is strange is that whenever a "good" player (Vokes, Puncheon) goes on loan to another club in our division we have "missed out on him" but loan players are still seen as something bad.
  • "Agreed Carson was a decent keeper and a shame we couldn't have signed him permanently. But he wasn't good enough to keep us up, was he?"

    If any keeper was able to save us that season he would have had tights on under his shorts, a cape and more than likely a mask that hid his true idenity as he flew in to the Valley from his secret Keeper Cave.

    Didn't someone always say they would only bring people in who were better than we had? Loans can work but only if they fill holes with talent not ballast.
  • [cite]Posted By: lancashire lad[/cite]Was Ibsen a loan signing as well?

    Yes, Norwegian winger. Not liked too much for all his play acting.
  • Henry Irving wrote: ''I'm surprised that such an articulate man would use the 'everyone else thinks like me so i'm right' argu(e)ment.''

    I didn't. You really should read more attentively and try not twist other's people's words to suit your own prejudices.

    In welcoming Merty 111, I wrote this in reply to his debut posting : '''you will find an awful lot of people on here who basically agree with you.''

    Fundamentally different in tone, meaning and nuance.
  • Again Nigel you misquote

    you said

    "Apart from Henry Irving, you will find an awful lot of people on here who basically agree with you."

    A clear implication that only one person held a contrary view and so being in the vast majority you were therefore right.

    C'mon Nigel you are a professional writer, you used to be the Labour Party's press officer. Don't pretend that you don't know how to "spin" a story.
  • edited November 2009
    There you go again!

    You misrepresent : ''why single out the loan player as reason for relegation when Carson won Player of the Year. I didn't actually rate him that highly but to say he was a failure is just a desperate attempt to dismiss any evidence that is contrary to your prejudices.''

    What I actually wrote was this:

    ''Henry Irving enthused : ''Some loans are good (Carson, Murty, Costa, Ward)''

    I'd rephrase that to say some loans are OK...ish. The only contribution any of those four made to something you could vaguely describe as Charlton ''success'' was the two dozen games Costa played for us in 2001-2. ''

    Somehow, you reintertepret this in your black v white way as singling out Carson as the reason for our relegation from the Premiership !!! I'm also rather confused about where you really stand, when you tell us Carson was a ''good'' loan - yet you didn't ''rate him that highly''.

    There really is a dialogue of the deaf going on here.
  • Loan signings are a fact of football these days, but like others I prefer to play the 'kids' in this debate all things being equal. Carson to me did not do a lot wrong and Costa especially were the ones that at that time were a big boost to the team.
    We have some really promising young players on the verge of the first team, albeit young and inexperienced we cannot expect them to play well every week. I can understand the instant need for a ready made player, but loanees I feel only have one foot in the club, with an eye to regaining fitness or getting back to there signed team. Let us hope that Wagstaff and Tuna are not 'loaned out' as well as others, and find a place albeit on the bench in the next few games.We are in the third tier of football, if they are not good enough at this level, going down another tier is not really going to be that beneficial being on the bench at Dagenham for instance is it!.......
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  • Beggars can`t be choosers is for Charlton a sad reality. With no money what other options are there ? Exactly.
  • Leicester used the loan market well last season (Martin and Hobbs from Liverpool, think they got a couple from United and Gilbert from Arsenal). Leeds are using it well this season with Vokes, Doyle from Cov (correct me if he is a permanent signing) and Gradel!
    Parkinson has used it fairly well (Murty, McEvily, Ward etc), So if we can get it right then what is the problem with loans, out young players are good but not always ready for regular first team football. Loans are needed in the lower leagues , we are just lucky we don't have Pardew to abuse the system!
  • [cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Didn't Ibsen say 'the majority is always wrong.
    The majority did not vote for Gordon Brown

    [cite]Posted By: ken from bexley[/cite] Let us hope that Wagstaff and Tuna are not 'loaned out' as well as others, and find a place albeit on the bench in the next few games.We are in the third tier of football, if they are not good enough at this level,.

    Wagstaff is clearly goingt o get a go at a start in the league sometime this season and I would be sad to see him go out on loan, not that I would expect it. Tuna however, I would not mind see go out on a couple of one month loans to Div 4 or lower Div 3 to get some starts, rather than not being good enough
  • [cite]Posted By: Kap10[/cite]Tuna however, I would not mind see go out on a couple of one month loans to Div 4 or lower Div 3 to get some starts, rather than not being good enough
    That wouldn't be a bad thing, most of the time when the young players have gone out on loan its benefited them.
  • Fcukin hell, some people really will argue about bloody everything.

    "Look at me, look how clever I am". Pathetic really - grown men furiously tapping at their keyboards to try and prove some obscure point!

    I can say the word BOLLOCKS. There, look how clever I am.
  • he he go and watch a seagal film.
  • [cite]Posted By: nolly[/cite]he he go and watch a seagal film.

    Just off to see the fireworks at Danson Park actually - much more entertaining than one of those crappy films (with the exception of Under Siege - I could watch the "cake scene" all day!)
  • watching the fight later?
  • Only if I can find it for free on t'internet.
  • Only if I can find it for free on t'internet.
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