[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]if he thinks that our system is 4-4-2 then he's bonkers.
You're right. It's a much more flexible, attacking, efficient, well-thought-out formation than a the predictable, pedestrian, easy-to-defend-against 4-4-2.
Have to agree with Large. Claiming that our system is really 4-4-2 is a strange comment - so bizarre that it's almost out of the Pardew school.
Mostly PP has talked a lot of sense this season, but that one really is baffling!
I'd much rather read him saying : ''I'm acutely aware of the fact that we haven't scored a league goal in more than 270 mins of football and the reasons for that and how we address it is something I'm going to be taking care of this week''.
Worrying, does he know what 442 is? If so, and he actually believes Jonjo is a striker (because he comes back deep when we're defending!!), he should really be making sure he plays a little closer to Burton.
Interesting. Did any of you think we played 4-4-1-1 when we had Bartlett and Johnansson up front? I'd guess you all thought it was 4-4-2 (like me) but Bartlett used to drop deep a lot and wasn't always playing on the last defender.....especially later in games or if it was tight. He used to come back and pick up the deep laying midfielder. I know he didn't drop deep for creative reasons but the fact is he did drop back in. Nobody made much of a big deal about it then.
Regarding today's team; who is the better player to have in the team?....Shelvey OR McLeod/McKenzie/Dickson/Tuna? Answer that and you've probably settled on your starting formation.
Well if we started with a 4 4 2, I'd like to know why there was such a dramatic change in terms of chances created after Mcleod and McKenzie were introduced. The fact that he feels the need to justify it, suggests to me that he is aware that it is no longer nearly as effective as it was in the first six games.
Well said, Queensland. And sorry Simonsen, but I personally really don't see any parallel between Burton/Shelvey and Bartlett/JJ. I do see a similarity between when Bartlett played up front on his own without JJ to how we are using Burton, though...
Nigel....what I'm getting at is maybe people are seeing it as a 4-5-1 because Shelvey is perceived to be a midfielder and not a "recognised" striker. If it were a recognised striker like say Di Canio or Bartlett dropping deep then perhaps people would probably still think we were playing 4-4-2 and therefore have less of a problem with it.
The difference between Parky's 4-4-2 and the conventional 4-4-2 is that the second striker will sit on the shoulder of the last man and use his pace to get beyond their back line. How many times do Burton or Jonjo do that?
Jonjo is invariably too deep to do that and Burton doesn't have the pace.
The problem is that when we attack it is a bit one diemsional - get the ball to sam on the right and the alternative is to play the ball to Burton who generally looks to lay it off and does so intelligently, but playing a sole striker means there is no one to run off him and keep the defence guessing or take a defender away from him.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]The difference between Parky's 4-4-2 and the conventional 4-4-2 is that the second striker will sit on the shoulder of the last man and use his pace to get beyond their back line. How many times do Burton or Jonjo do that?
Jonjo is invariably too deep to do that and Burton doesn't have the pace.[/quote]
Exactly right. If you're playing with two strikers, one of them has to have the pace to get in behind the defence. That's why I find it hard to believe that he thinks it's a 4 4 2.
Match strategy, both during and between matches, is not Parky's strong suit. His tactics from a positive view are clear and consistent. Or from a negative view -- all too predictable. We need to outplay opponents because we are not going to out-think them.
One win in six now ,no goals in three when is the penny goin to drop ? The team needs rotating to freshen up players,a prime example is matt spring ,in 3 of the 4 games he has played he has been our best player.Players become complacent when they know the manager is goin to stick with the same eleven no matter how they perform on the pitch,as do subs become disillusioned when they know the manager will not change players when not performing.Liera not good enough sodje or basey should come in ,shelvey needs rest ,tuna or mckenzie in,richardson needs rest defending poor on saturday run out of steam completely second half solly in ,burton needs rest mcleod in .The only player he seems to rotate is wagstaff for sam with 15 mins to go every game.All these players mentioned could do a job in this division ,we will then see a much fresher and hungrier charlton team performing every week. When is Parky goin to wake up!!!!!!!!
What like mendonca and bright, or mendonca and leaburn, or the best partnership in the last twenty years Hunt and Mendonca? You don't need a pacey striker, especially at this level. However you do need a pacey winger to compress play and make opposing defenders think twice about how they'll compress play.
Whilst Shelvey is superb when presented with the ball in a little space, he has not positionally got it yet. But he's only eighteen. He needs to learn when to push up and be five-ten yards off the lone striker, especially when Oldham were playing one up front and deep. He needs to do his bustle there when teams are negative. Having said that whatever midfield we have they play too deep, and whilst Sam - could but often doesn't - doesn't bomb into space we will still be too deep to properly link attack. So whilst we can question Shelvey's positioning, he's in a hard place if Richardson and Youga aren't bombing on; and this tactic is much better away from home.
One thing that Parky can not change with these players is that we just do not start any half apace. Alright we appear a lot better there than Pardew ever had us setup, but our players lack a character to just buzz as they come out the tunnel. Remember how we came out with Mortimer, or Newton and Robinson? The only one with irrational exuberance is Dickson and we all know his character does not fit.
Comments
Mostly PP has talked a lot of sense this season, but that one really is baffling!
I'd much rather read him saying : ''I'm acutely aware of the fact that we haven't scored a league goal in more than 270 mins of football and the reasons for that and how we address it is something I'm going to be taking care of this week''.
Regarding today's team; who is the better player to have in the team?....Shelvey OR McLeod/McKenzie/Dickson/Tuna? Answer that and you've probably settled on your starting formation.
spot on. Plus Racon should be getting up near the front one and even beyond him.
probably more like 43111
Jonjo is invariably too deep to do that and Burton doesn't have the pace.
The problem is that when we attack it is a bit one diemsional - get the ball to sam on the right and the alternative is to play the ball to Burton who generally looks to lay it off and does so intelligently, but playing a sole striker means there is no one to run off him and keep the defence guessing or take a defender away from him.
Jonjo is invariably too deep to do that and Burton doesn't have the pace.[/quote]
Exactly right. If you're playing with two strikers, one of them has to have the pace to get in behind the defence.
That's why I find it hard to believe that he thinks it's a 4 4 2.
His tactics from a positive view are clear and consistent. Or from a negative view -- all too predictable.
We need to outplay opponents because we are not going to out-think them.
Whilst Shelvey is superb when presented with the ball in a little space, he has not positionally got it yet. But he's only eighteen. He needs to learn when to push up and be five-ten yards off the lone striker, especially when Oldham were playing one up front and deep. He needs to do his bustle there when teams are negative. Having said that whatever midfield we have they play too deep, and whilst Sam - could but often doesn't - doesn't bomb into space we will still be too deep to properly link attack. So whilst we can question Shelvey's positioning, he's in a hard place if Richardson and Youga aren't bombing on; and this tactic is much better away from home.
One thing that Parky can not change with these players is that we just do not start any half apace. Alright we appear a lot better there than Pardew ever had us setup, but our players lack a character to just buzz as they come out the tunnel. Remember how we came out with Mortimer, or Newton and Robinson? The only one with irrational exuberance is Dickson and we all know his character does not fit.