[cite]Posted By: Miserableold-ish git[/cite]As above I'm indifferent to Gold & Sullivan,the only concern being they are not "init" for the long run........
[cite]Posted By: ColinTat[/cite]Fact is exiled that Brum never really upped their support under them. They ran at a loss when Francis was in charge and barely getting them in the play offs year after year; and that with spending of 5-7 million some years. Then they ran at a loss supporting Brucey, they were willing to pay transfer fees and wages we could not get near but commercially we were more successful than them.
It is the Gold family that has the more successful business but I'd imagine a lot of their estate is wrapped up in assets and no doubt used to securitise debt; just a guess but the massive adjustment to their wealth in the last 18 months points to their assets being hoiked to debt. Sullivan on his own wouldn't really benefit anyone unless he's bridging to a 'Dubai' lot. If it is at all possible I'd rather keep the Dubai lot.
I have friends who are Blues season ticket holders. Whilst you can't really criticise the amount of money the Golds and Sullivan put in, there was always a sense the fans were treated with a bit of contempt - little things like my friends being forced to give up the seats they'd occupied for 10 years because the club decided to make the seats the Gold Club area (I forget the actual name but you get the gist) where you had to buy an extra seasons pass to an 'exclusive' bar if you wanted to sit there - an extra £100. There are other little things too - my Father in Law is a blue-nose and the Wife wanted to buy him a gift voucher for the club shop for his birthday. Value of gift voucher £20, cost of posting 20 miles to Kidderminster £7.50, needless to say we didn't bother.
They're not big things, I know, but they're hints at the way the club was run under them and I don't really want Charlton to be like that.
Hasn't he said that he wants to own a club closer to his home in London (or an airport so may be Cardiff I suppose although Cardiff airport is not near the centre of Cardiff). I'm kind of in the Henry camp on this one as well. I am not greatly enamoured with his Porn business connections but then, would you rather have him that the bloke who replaced him at Brum, or that Taxin bloke at Citeh, or a Russian Oligarc or Mike Ashely ffs or Tangoman or Icelandic bankers money.
This porn thing....it's not the hard core stuff is it as far as I know, just that girly soft porn stuff in the newsagents etc....in which case that doesn't phase me one bit......wouldn't call that porn exactly, more pretty harmless titilation I guess.Is he involved in hard core stuff....not that I know of anyway? Were that to be the case, then I guess it's not the CAFC image is it!
As for wanting to be near an airport well, London City isn't far for scheduled flights and Biggin Hill is also not that far away for private aircraft.
To a certain extent, I admire the man. A self-made millionaire who found a niche in the market and exploited it to the full. Who wouldn't do the same? He's been around football for a while now and knows the pitfalls. I think he'd do a good job at Charlton and wouldn't have any problems if he took over. New broom and all that...
Better than bloody Richard Desmond at least for smut barons.
I was trying to put a balanced arguement exiled. I agree with you on those commercial issues you've highlighted, but on the other hand they're similar things to Freddy Shepperd did to Newcastle whilst bleeding the club dry and totally mismanaging their finances; along with being a master muppet in his 'considered' choices around hiring and firing.
The Gold's and Sullivan's run clubs at a loss, but also they're savvy enough to negotiate hard. I agree I'd rather not have someone with ridiculous commercial activities on the one hand but on the other they use their budget wisely. The second time they were promoted under Bruce was masterly in their shuffling of resources, mainly selling whilst buying the league MVP of the time - McSheffrey - and getting great Arsenal youngsters. They are great negotiators; for instance even with Figueroa where they made a booboo they got some money back eventually through Cruz-Villareal.
I agree with Henry I'm not totally against them but also a bit hesitant. In answer to you Henry, the 'Dubai' lot is a golden ticket. I don't know if it's an option but I can't see many owners taking us past a Curbishley level, unless they themselves are essentially from the Arab world. And the way Dubai is economically, we're probably never be an option for them for a long long time.
So what - he made his money in the "Adult entertainment" arena. Whilst it's not my cup of tea it clearly resonated with millions of people as it made him very wealthy.
Admittedly it's not something a family club really wants to associate itself with in an ideal world i'd much prefer someone like him that a faceless Arab who is as dodgy as a dodgy second hand car salesman playing dodgeball and arriving at the match in a Dodge charger
[cite]Posted By: Swisdom[/cite]So what - he made his money in the "Adult entertainment" arena. Whilst it's not my cup of tea it clearly resonated with millions of people as it made him very wealthy.
Admittedly it's not something a family club really wants to associate itself with in an ideal world i'd much prefer someone like him that a faceless Arab who is as dodgy as a dodgy second hand car salesman playing dodgeball and arriving at the match in a Dodge charger
Indeed.......A dodgy Arab, who most likely has a huge porn collection.
David Sullivan and the Gold brothers are plotting to take over Charlton should they fail to negotiate an attractive deal for West Ham.
Sullivan and David and Ralph Gold all want to own another football club after selling Birmingham City to Carson Yeung.
Both camps pocketed around £25million from the £80m sale and are keen to stay in the game.
Sources close to the East End businessmen have confirmed they are in “on-going negotiations” for two clubs, with the cash-strapped Premier League Hammers their primary target.
They have an emotional attachment to the Upton Park club after growing up in the area.
But Sullivan and the Golds are seriously worried about the club’s huge debts of around £100million.
Mirror Sport revealed on October 5 that West Ham’s debts included £45m to several different banks, £19m to Sheffield United over the Carlos Tevez affair, £15m to other clubs for players - plus running losses of £20m this year.
That has prompted the Essex-based tycoons to consider other options near to their homes and they like Charlton Athletic, who are second in League One.
The Addicks have been in decline since dropping out of the top-flight in 2007 but Sullivan, 50, believes there is potential at The Valley.
A source said: “They are in on-going negotiations with a couple of clubs. Sullivan would love to get West Ham, but has a plan B.”
Thanks Marty for that. I agree with you about 2+2 = 5 and all that. If I was Sullivan and Gold I would be looking at the following?
Can we buy our beloved club (that's West Ham of course) and try and get them on the cheap £80 million and take on their debt and really sort the club out once and for all even if we have to pay £60-£70 mill in debts or do I?
Option 2, go for a club that has got potential? Who is out there with potential that may just need a say £15-£20 million spending to get it to the top League? Small investment for a potential huge return long term?
Say we are in his interests then £30 will buy the club and say £20 million on players. Invetment £50 mill. If we end up with the top league then the club is then worth a helava lot more (and with the investment in the housing area as well).
Of course you have to look at other clubs. Jordan wants to sell but they don't own their own ground and they can't build on that. Watford, Norwich, Ipswich (he was interested in Ipswich before),
What other clubs are out there? Reading?
Lets look at the fan base.. Norwich are getting good crowds.. but then so are Charlton. We are getting 17,000 regular fans coming into our ground? Can we develop the Valley? Yes, we can into 40,000. We already have planning permission. Bu then, what about the other grounds I have mentioned.. Ipswich can be developed can't it??
Not forgetting this will be probably their last investment. I think this all depends on how quick West Ham want to sell? Yes we know quickly? But at what price?
Interesting from No 1 in South London Club. He has mentioned in prev interviews about having a "stake" in the club.. maybe this is his plan after all. If it goes tits up he loses £40 million..... if West Ham accepts his bid, he and Gold and Karen Brady turn the club completly around and they end up with a profit long term.
Also if they accept... after a while being there.. he could "re=negotiate" and say ok I invest another £40 mill and I will take total control. Good thinking there...
Comments
15/16 years at Brum Mog, a long time in football.
;-)
I have friends who are Blues season ticket holders. Whilst you can't really criticise the amount of money the Golds and Sullivan put in, there was always a sense the fans were treated with a bit of contempt - little things like my friends being forced to give up the seats they'd occupied for 10 years because the club decided to make the seats the Gold Club area (I forget the actual name but you get the gist) where you had to buy an extra seasons pass to an 'exclusive' bar if you wanted to sit there - an extra £100. There are other little things too - my Father in Law is a blue-nose and the Wife wanted to buy him a gift voucher for the club shop for his birthday. Value of gift voucher £20, cost of posting 20 miles to Kidderminster £7.50, needless to say we didn't bother.
They're not big things, I know, but they're hints at the way the club was run under them and I don't really want Charlton to be like that.
Lets wait and see eh?
As for wanting to be near an airport well, London City isn't far for scheduled flights and Biggin Hill is also not that far away for private aircraft.
fair enough but why?
I warming to the idea.
I was trying to put a balanced arguement exiled. I agree with you on those commercial issues you've highlighted, but on the other hand they're similar things to Freddy Shepperd did to Newcastle whilst bleeding the club dry and totally mismanaging their finances; along with being a master muppet in his 'considered' choices around hiring and firing.
The Gold's and Sullivan's run clubs at a loss, but also they're savvy enough to negotiate hard. I agree I'd rather not have someone with ridiculous commercial activities on the one hand but on the other they use their budget wisely. The second time they were promoted under Bruce was masterly in their shuffling of resources, mainly selling whilst buying the league MVP of the time - McSheffrey - and getting great Arsenal youngsters. They are great negotiators; for instance even with Figueroa where they made a booboo they got some money back eventually through Cruz-Villareal.
I agree with Henry I'm not totally against them but also a bit hesitant. In answer to you Henry, the 'Dubai' lot is a golden ticket. I don't know if it's an option but I can't see many owners taking us past a Curbishley level, unless they themselves are essentially from the Arab world. And the way Dubai is economically, we're probably never be an option for them for a long long time.
A***nal
Bristol C**y
or even
S****horpe
Really....I didn't know that.
Admittedly it's not something a family club really wants to associate itself with in an ideal world i'd much prefer someone like him that a faceless Arab who is as dodgy as a dodgy second hand car salesman playing dodgeball and arriving at the match in a Dodge charger
Indeed.......A dodgy Arab, who most likely has a huge porn collection.
FACT
David Sullivan and the Gold brothers are plotting to take over Charlton should they fail to negotiate an attractive deal for West Ham.
Sullivan and David and Ralph Gold all want to own another football club after selling Birmingham City to Carson Yeung.
Both camps pocketed around £25million from the £80m sale and are keen to stay in the game.
Sources close to the East End businessmen have confirmed they are in “on-going negotiations” for two clubs, with the cash-strapped Premier League Hammers their primary target.
They have an emotional attachment to the Upton Park club after growing up in the area.
But Sullivan and the Golds are seriously worried about the club’s huge debts of around £100million.
Mirror Sport revealed on October 5 that West Ham’s debts included £45m to several different banks, £19m to Sheffield United over the Carlos Tevez affair, £15m to other clubs for players - plus running losses of £20m this year.
That has prompted the Essex-based tycoons to consider other options near to their homes and they like Charlton Athletic, who are second in League One.
The Addicks have been in decline since dropping out of the top-flight in 2007 but Sullivan, 50, believes there is potential at The Valley.
A source said: “They are in on-going negotiations with a couple of clubs. Sullivan would love to get West Ham, but has a plan B.”
Can we buy our beloved club (that's West Ham of course) and try and get them on the cheap £80 million and take on their debt and really sort the club out once and for all even if we have to pay £60-£70 mill in debts or do I?
Option 2, go for a club that has got potential? Who is out there with potential that may just need a say £15-£20 million spending to get it to the top League? Small investment for a potential huge return long term?
Say we are in his interests then £30 will buy the club and say £20 million on players. Invetment £50 mill. If we end up with the top league then the club is then worth a helava lot more (and with the investment in the housing area as well).
Of course you have to look at other clubs. Jordan wants to sell but they don't own their own ground and they can't build on that. Watford, Norwich, Ipswich (he was interested in Ipswich before),
What other clubs are out there? Reading?
Lets look at the fan base.. Norwich are getting good crowds.. but then so are Charlton. We are getting 17,000 regular fans coming into our ground? Can we develop the Valley? Yes, we can into 40,000. We already have planning permission. Bu then, what about the other grounds I have mentioned.. Ipswich can be developed can't it??
Not forgetting this will be probably their last investment. I think this all depends on how quick West Ham want to sell? Yes we know quickly? But at what price?
Also if they accept... after a while being there.. he could "re=negotiate" and say ok I invest another £40 mill and I will take total control. Good thinking there...