OK Bart. I for one welcome that as I've felt pretty rotten this last week or two to be honest as I quite unwittingly started a lot of this off.
Line drawn.
Man I feel really bad that you've been made to feel this way. Especially when there's no doubt that your intentions were honest and good. This all comes from the speculation that Jonjo possibly reads the forum, in which case people are naturally going to act protective (irrationally in some cases). This is a horrible situation to be in. Not one person on this board would ever want to upset Jonjo or his family, on the flip side you cant take away peoples right to an opinion or the board is stuffed. It all needs to be sorted out.
Enjoy your posts, even when I disagree. I hardly ever get to away games so your comments are always appreciated.
I find the suggestion that any player should not be criticised because we might 'discourage' them to be quite preposterous. Doesn't matter what age they are or how many of their relatives read this site. It's a forum for opinions and nobody should be discouraged from expressing them.
If all we ever wrote was 'Shelvey is the best young Charlton product since Scott Parker and we love watching him' , we'd all soon stop reading. I mean, he is the best and obviously we all know that. But that is surely not all there is to say about the lad and the way he plays the game...
Funny isn't it how many of us forget how things were 30 years ago when 'wonder kids' like Paul Walsh, Paul Elliott and Rob Lee were breaking through. We had no internet, no mobiles, I was even told by my parents that if I so much as picked up the phone (which had a lock on it) it would cost! I for one revelled in their apparent brilliance through odd glimpses in the papers, at games and occasionally on TV. It really is so intense now. I too was as the game, yes Jonjo looked a bit pi55ed off at being substituted, so what no big deal, the guy loves his football. So much read into what he does and doesn't do, we hardly know the guy. He is one of 11 players on the pitch and like them all on Saturday played a formidible part in their various ways to achieve a 4-0 result. yes one or two corners went astray but FFS Llera fecked up many times, Sam should have scored 5 Youga had his funny 5 mins, etc etc etc couldn't give a to55 the end result of the TEAM ( M & S acronym Together Everyone Achieves More) effort was a stunning 4-0 victory. Jonjo played his part tirelesslsy and superbly as they all did. Bollox to the micro analysis of individuals, we won we won due to a fantastic team ethic, end of. All I would ask for is perspective and balance, we are not a one man team, it is the sum of the parts that makes us strong not one individual ( an excellent prospect he is though)
Do people get a kick out this Great British tradition of building up people hold aloft only to kick them back down again.
Its just sad people slaggin off his attitude because he was un happy about coming off and 'showed his age' like fuck he did he saw there were goals to be had out there and wanted to get in on the action, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that and its about bloody time we had players who don't wanna leave the field because they think they can nick a goal
During his career Jonjo will read or hear much tougher stuff than anything in this thread. Wait till he gets his dream move to a prem club (all transfers to prem teams are "dream moves") and 10,000 scousers are making up songs about him or booing his every touch of the ball because he slightly mistimed a tackle on their beloved Scouse thug Stevie G. Not that I'm condoning anything, just that this stuff goes with the territory and it's part of his learning curve. In cricketing circles they talk of sledging other players as being part of the process of determining whether a player has the character or temperament to succeed under match conditions, is that fair, nice or even legal? No, not really, but again it's part of the process of trying to get one over on an opponent. It's likely that Jonjo has already been called worse names by opponents on the pitch and if so he should recognise that when someone with far more years or experience, but not necessarily more ability is singling you out for abuse then it's a compliment - they are recognising your impact. He's good enough and has a sound enough mind to take this stuff and leave it behind, Golfie's strange comments may bemuse him but I don't think they'll faze him.
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]I think the point you miss Golfie...is that by all accounts we dominated the match, scored four goals in an away match for the first time in yonks...and all you wanted to comment on was a bit of supposed petulance from a 17 year old teenager who'd just played a major part in setting up that victory. Cut Jonjo some slack, he's fast maturing into one of the best teenaged footballers in the country, he plays to win and runs his butt off for the team. All things that I think are more noteworthy than whether he was pissed off at being subbed or not.
Get your sense of perspective in order.
I think you have missed the point. He said he would have made the same comment whatever player it had been. Not a Shelvey witch hunt but an observation on something a player did. As said by you 'by all accounts' but not yours presumably.
I don't think I have missed the point. Golfie bless his cotton socks has long been one to highlight the cost of something without demonstrating that he understands its value and here he's reverted to type.
I wasn't there on Saturday so I can't comment on what I didn't see - but if I read the match reports on the OS and the comments of those on the two post-match threads then most seem to have experienced a great team perfomance and our fifth win a row - how long did it take us to record our fifth League win last season? I say most, but not all, because Golfie despite spending all day travelling to and From Liverpool presumably at no little cost has bothered to highlight one insignificant part of the match yet has ignored the rest of the game. If he can be bothered to slag off Jonjo and even log on here to do so then surely adding his comments on the other 89 minutes and 59 seconds of action might be worth writing up as well? Or maybe not if this a sample of what he considers important...
All of which makes me think that Golfie inhabits a dour humourless world if thinks this is the only thing from Saturday worth troubling us with. As I said, a strange comment to make, I am beginning to wonder if some fans really want to see us being successful or prefer mediocrity. I've seen enough of the latter and witnessed enough over the years to know that screwing up has at times been our default position, but just when things are looking bright and we have one of the best young players in football and one who will go on to achieve greatness criticising him for wanting to stay on the pitch and finish off a wounded and all but dead in the water opponent is wrong and an attitude that what I want to see in a player. I suppose we could always get Marcus Bent back and drag JFH out of retirement and stuff our team with players who thought the world and the game owed them a living, but those kind of players got us into this mess. One of the things I like about Jonjo is that he doesn't appear to accept mediocrity and that is something that some fans are going to have to deal with, as well as a few players.
I have been happily reading this forum for the last couple years. Over that time I have grown to greatly appreciate the breadth and depth of the intelligence of the topics covered here and the intensity of the supporters. The viewpoints are appropriately diverse and the varied views keep me coming back to further augment my own support for the team.
As part and parcel of the foregoing, I have also come to appreciate Golf's dead-on Eeyore. GA is more of a supporter of this club than I could ever hope to be and whilst his glass tends to be one-quarter full (and that one quarter laden with amoebas), I believe that his comments reflect some contemplation and consideration. However dim it makes me, I am grateful for his participation.
The vehemence of response seems inappropriate. After a tremendous win, at least two negative threads went up: this one and the bit on administration. The administration query was a naked wind-up; it was ill-considered and inane. And yet the ridiculous, cynical assertion that the vapid point was made (both here and on other discussion boards) to generate discussion amongst adults did not provoke anything like what two relatively mild (and, to my mind, sincere) criticisms of a player's performance triggered.
The vehemence of response seems inappropriate. After a tremendous win, at least two negative threads went up: this one and the bit on administration. The administration query was a naked wind-up; it was ill-considered and inane. And yet the ridiculous, cynical assertion that the vapid point was made (both here and on other discussion boards) to generate discussion amongst adults did not provoke anything like what two relatively mild (and, to my mind, sincere) criticisms of a player's performance triggered.
The vehemence of response seems inappropriate. After a tremendous win, at least two negative threads went up: this one and the bit on administration. The administration query was a naked wind-up; it was ill-considered and inane. And yet the ridiculous, cynical assertion that the vapid point was made (both here and on other discussion boards) to generate discussion amongst adults did not provoke anything like what two relatively mild (and, to my mind, sincere) criticisms of a player's performance triggered.
Word a day toilet paper?
Nah, just been to college. I thought it was rather good. As for toilet paper, I can recommend turd-a-day paper.
The vehemence of response seems inappropriate. After a tremendous win, at least two negative threads went up: this one and the bit on administration. The administration query was a naked wind-up; it was ill-considered and inane. And yet the ridiculous, cynical assertion that the vapid point was made (both here and on other discussion boards) to generate discussion amongst adults did not provoke anything like what two relatively mild (and, to my mind, sincere) criticisms of a player's performance triggered.
Word a day toilet paper?
Is this kind of comment really necessary? I thought CPA's comments were both reasoned and articulate whilst the Eyeore comment was wittily perceptive. if posters continue to receive this kind of trashing, the forum will become a wasteland inhabited solely by bullies and boors.
[cite]Posted By: stilladdicted[/cite]Is this kind of comment really necessary? I thought CPA's comments were both reasoned and articulate whilst the Eyeore comment was wittily perceptive. if posters continue to receive this kind of trashing, the forum will become a wasteland inhabited solely by bullies and boors.
Relax. I thought it was a good post too, a tad pretentious but good points to be made. People are in danger of becoming over sensetive. It was just a joke, if you found it aggravating then I apologise.
[cite]Posted By: Stig[/cite]
Nah, just been to college. I thought it was rather good. As for toilet paper, I can recommend turd-a-day paper.
I always find it amiss when someone says this. I guess I did'nt learn as much as you guys in college. Ill give the recommendation a shot, anything that does'nt scratch my ***h*le out will be appreciated.
Sorry to CA aswell. I did enjoy your post and I apologise for how my comment came over.
That is fair play, I have no problem with a tweak -- particularly one that is both succinct and clever. It should not take me 80 words to state what can be said in 10.
Comments
Man I feel really bad that you've been made to feel this way. Especially when there's no doubt that your intentions were honest and good. This all comes from the speculation that Jonjo possibly reads the forum, in which case people are naturally going to act protective (irrationally in some cases). This is a horrible situation to be in. Not one person on this board would ever want to upset Jonjo or his family, on the flip side you cant take away peoples right to an opinion or the board is stuffed. It all needs to be sorted out.
Enjoy your posts, even when I disagree. I hardly ever get to away games so your comments are always appreciated.
I find the suggestion that any player should not be criticised because we might 'discourage' them to be quite preposterous. Doesn't matter what age they are or how many of their relatives read this site. It's a forum for opinions and nobody should be discouraged from expressing them.
If all we ever wrote was 'Shelvey is the best young Charlton product since Scott Parker and we love watching him' , we'd all soon stop reading. I mean, he is the best and obviously we all know that. But that is surely not all there is to say about the lad and the way he plays the game...
Its just sad people slaggin off his attitude because he was un happy about coming off and 'showed his age' like fuck he did he saw there were goals to be had out there and wanted to get in on the action, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that and its about bloody time we had players who don't wanna leave the field because they think they can nick a goal
I think you have missed the point. He said he would have made the same comment whatever player it had been. Not a Shelvey witch hunt but an observation on something a player did. As said by you 'by all accounts' but not yours presumably.
I wasn't there on Saturday so I can't comment on what I didn't see - but if I read the match reports on the OS and the comments of those on the two post-match threads then most seem to have experienced a great team perfomance and our fifth win a row - how long did it take us to record our fifth League win last season? I say most, but not all, because Golfie despite spending all day travelling to and From Liverpool presumably at no little cost has bothered to highlight one insignificant part of the match yet has ignored the rest of the game. If he can be bothered to slag off Jonjo and even log on here to do so then surely adding his comments on the other 89 minutes and 59 seconds of action might be worth writing up as well? Or maybe not if this a sample of what he considers important...
All of which makes me think that Golfie inhabits a dour humourless world if thinks this is the only thing from Saturday worth troubling us with. As I said, a strange comment to make, I am beginning to wonder if some fans really want to see us being successful or prefer mediocrity. I've seen enough of the latter and witnessed enough over the years to know that screwing up has at times been our default position, but just when things are looking bright and we have one of the best young players in football and one who will go on to achieve greatness criticising him for wanting to stay on the pitch and finish off a wounded and all but dead in the water opponent is wrong and an attitude that what I want to see in a player. I suppose we could always get Marcus Bent back and drag JFH out of retirement and stuff our team with players who thought the world and the game owed them a living, but those kind of players got us into this mess. One of the things I like about Jonjo is that he doesn't appear to accept mediocrity and that is something that some fans are going to have to deal with, as well as a few players.
As part and parcel of the foregoing, I have also come to appreciate Golf's dead-on Eeyore. GA is more of a supporter of this club than I could ever hope to be and whilst his glass tends to be one-quarter full (and that one quarter laden with amoebas), I believe that his comments reflect some contemplation and consideration. However dim it makes me, I am grateful for his participation.
The vehemence of response seems inappropriate. After a tremendous win, at least two negative threads went up: this one and the bit on administration. The administration query was a naked wind-up; it was ill-considered and inane. And yet the ridiculous, cynical assertion that the vapid point was made (both here and on other discussion boards) to generate discussion amongst adults did not provoke anything like what two relatively mild (and, to my mind, sincere) criticisms of a player's performance triggered.
Word a day toilet paper?
Nah, just been to college. I thought it was rather good. As for toilet paper, I can recommend turd-a-day paper.
Is this kind of comment really necessary? I thought CPA's comments were both reasoned and articulate whilst the Eyeore comment was wittily perceptive. if posters continue to receive this kind of trashing, the forum will become a wasteland inhabited solely by bullies and boors.
Relax. I thought it was a good post too, a tad pretentious but good points to be made. People are in danger of becoming over sensetive. It was just a joke, if you found it aggravating then I apologise.
That is fair play, I have no problem with a tweak -- particularly one that is both succinct and clever. It should not take me 80 words to state what can be said in 10.