[cite]Posted By: Groucho78MFC[/cite]Well i try to look at things from your 'ideal world' perspective, but we dont live in an ideal world. He SHOULD be able to celebrate how he wants....in an ideal world. Unfortunately, it's there are games where they are going to have to think twice because it can be seen as inciteful. Would you not advise Darren Bent, Scott Parker, et all NOT to celebrate a goal in front of the Charlton fans? Not because he's going to get his face stoved in, but because of the possibility that it could incite something between fans? In an atmosphere that you could evidently already cut with a knife, it might have been advisable from Stanislas NOT to do what he did last night. How is that not logical? And who is defending Millwalls hoolie element?
Maybe i'm missing your point. Maybe you're missing mine.
[cite]Posted By: Groucho78MFC[/cite]Well i try to look at things from your 'ideal world' perspective, but we dont live in an ideal world. He SHOULD be able to celebrate how he wants....in an ideal world. Unfortunately, it's there are games where they are going to have to think twice because it can be seen as inciteful. Would you not advise Darren Bent, Scott Parker, et all NOT to celebrate a goal in front of the Charlton fans? Not because he's going to get his face stoved in, but because of the possibility that it could incite something between fans? In an atmosphere that you could evidently already cut with a knife, it might have been advisable from Stanislas NOT to do what he did last night. How is that not logical? And who is defending Millwalls hoolie element?
Maybe i'm missing your point. Maybe you're missing mine.
I'm fairly sure D Bent wouldn't celebrate in front of us. At least I hope he wouldn't :-(
[quote][cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]All those that want to please carry on, but i'm bored of seeing posts about that club at the top of our forum[/quote]
BFR you calculate £75k for a full Jimmy Seed. As Atletico has mentioned how much extra will we have to pay in policing costs over and above the norm because of Millwall visiting? I have no way of knowing but I reckon it would take most of that extra £75k.
Chizz thanks for understanding my post. If the demand was there that is exactly what I would do. Sell the Jimmy Seed to Charlton fans.
BFR again. In a previous post I referred to tacit approval of disgraceful behaviour. I possibly did not make myself clear but my reference was specifically to Millwall. As far as I can see little effort is made by Millwall to weed out their sizeable undesirable minority. If a few clubs made their Millwall fixtures Home Only perhaps the decent majoriy of Millwall would be less inclined to glory in the destructive behaviour of the scum once they realise that the behaviour of the scum is preventing them from travelling away. They may even press their club to take action against the scum.
You call me running scared. The truth of the matter is that I attend matches with my daughter so yes I am apprehensive on her behalf. If you prefer to use the phrase running scared as a Daily Mail fan sensationalising things then that is your perogative:-) I probably won't take her to the Millwall match at The Valley for that reason. Why though should it be her missing a match on her paid for season ticket rather than the troublemaking Millwall scum?
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]Are you a Millwall fan BFR? Perhaps that explains your inability to quote properly! READ WHAT I SAID. Home fans only. How does that punish Charlton fans?
.........
Because we'll get banned when we play at Millwall and it'll also deprive the club of their biggest away gate all season. Do some maths - 3,100 odd Millwall fans at £25 a head is over £75k in gate money let alone programme sales etc. With or without a takeover that is not money we can afford to chuck away and that impacts on the team and therefore on us fans, and all because you are running scared of a few wannabee football factory extras.
BFR......with the extra money we would have to spend on policing and security, plus the very real possibility of significant damage done to The Jimmy Seed stand I think it's a no brainer..however there may be 'legal' ramifications to concede with.
"As far as I can see little effort is made by Millwall to weed out their sizeable undesirable minority. If a few clubs made their Millwall fixtures Home Only perhaps the decent majoriy of Millwall would be less inclined to glory in the destructive behaviour of the scum once they realise that the behaviour of the scum is preventing them from travelling away. They may even press their club to take action against the scum"
How do we prevent people without tickets travelling? There's absolutely nothing the club can do to those travelling without a ticket, just going for a tear-up. They've got no season ticket, no membership. Nothing at all that ultimately links them to Millwall FC. The club does enough to take as much action as it can against such undesirables, but now you're asking for the club to keep tabs on Joe Public?
If i wanted to go over to Arsenal v Spurs for a tear-up a mile from the ground, i'd go. How could either club stop me?
In the same vein as your daughter missing a game, a young child, sister of a millwall mate I know, not groucho wouldn't be able to watch her team play away due to some small element of fans that have spoilt it. Its not all of their fault!
I agree something should be done to change it but it really is made massive when its not. Did you know len there was trouble on 1st game od season by charlton fans? Prob not as its not reported on and you'll still go down to valley thinking everything at charlton is rosy.
I'm not saying last night was ok and the norm but it happens week in week out by the minority of fans everywhere - don't think last night was isolated. I think atmospheres at a lot of away games can be intimidating. Leyton orient - guy next to me wanted to stand - bloke behind and a bit along asked him to sit down - 10 mins of 'you gonna f**king make me' 'who do u think u are' ensued over my head and thankfully it stopped. They didn't seem concerned I was sitting underneath them. There we're kids around too. Then if you have the misfortune of sitting near the home/away divide you get the signs, name calling 'offering out' I've even seen children join in.
That happens at every away game - whether you notice it usually depends on how good the game is, where you're sitting and how many fans we've got.
Fact is, organised fights need to be stopped and not to the detriment of others - from whichever side. Hope they catch the b'stards, ban em for life and hopefully mean others won't go the same way. I can't see our 'yoof' growing out of it even tho 2 have recently left prison!
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]Are you a Millwall fan BFR? Perhaps that explains your inability to quote properly! READ WHAT I SAID. Home fans only. How does that punish Charlton fans?
.........
Because we'll get banned when we play at Millwall and it'll also deprive the club of their biggest away gate all season. Do some maths - 3,100 odd Millwall fans at £25 a head is over £75k in gate money let alone programme sales etc. With or without a takeover that is not money we can afford to chuck away and that impacts on the team and therefore on us fans, and all because you are running scared of a few wannabee football factory extras.
I think he's saying Home Fans Only. Which is different from "keep the away end empty". So you could put 3,100 Charlton bums on seats in the Jimmy South Seed Stand. At 25 each. Which is over £75k in gate money...
Chizz, I think you're presuming that we're going to sell the entire ground out, which we won't. If we're 3,100 or more off maximum attendance, then the absence of Milwall fans would be costing us money. Won't happen anyway.
If we can get 26000 Charlton fans to watch a League One game, with no opposition fans, then I'd like to know where 12,000 of them are spending their Saturdays.
[quote][cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]A few strands to pull together here:
BFR you calculate £75k for a full Jimmy Seed. As Atletico has mentioned how much extra will we have to pay in policing costs over and above the norm because of Millwall visiting? I have no way of knowing but I reckon it would take most of that extra £75k.
Chizz thanks for understanding my post. If the demand was there that is exactly what I would do. Sell the Jimmy Seed to Charlton fans.
BFR again. In a previous post I referred to tacit approval of disgraceful behaviour. I possibly did not make myself clear but my reference was specifically to Millwall. As far as I can see little effort is made by Millwall to weed out their sizeable undesirable minority. If a few clubs made their Millwall fixtures Home Only perhaps the decent majoriy of Millwall would be less inclined to glory in the destructive behaviour of the scum once they realise that the behaviour of the scum is preventing them from travelling away. They may even press their club to take action against the scum.
You call me running scared. The truth of the matter is that I attend matches with my daughter so yes I am apprehensive on her behalf. If you prefer to use the phrase running scared as a Daily Mail fan sensationalising things then that is your perogative:-) I probably won't take her to the Millwall match at The Valley for that reason. Why though should it be her missing a match on her paid for season ticket rather than the troublemaking Millwall scum?[/quote]
Of course policing costs will be higher than average - and if Atletico Addick is reading this if we could fill the JS Stand with 3,000 odd home fans then banning Millwall will be no trouble, but if we struggle to get 15,000/16,000 fans for teams in this league, do you really think that we are magically going to find 27,000 home fans to sell out both the home and away ends? I'm a tad dubious myself....
As to what the costs for policing on that day will be - you'll have to ask someone inside the club, besides a ban or no ban there'll have to be plenty of policing in and outside the ground that day. I can't imagine that the police will assume that there'll be no trouble just by simple expedient of banning away fans, so one way or the other we'll have a large police bill...you may think differently however.
As to whether Millwall are tacitly encouraging hooligans then I don't know, they'll claim they are co-operatating with the police while some evidence may support that common sense suggests that a complete crack down on their part is going to cost them too many fans. Generally I see a lot of evidence that football takes this problem seriously and Millwall as a club always point to the trouble that gets perprated in their name by thugs who never go near the ground and use the club as an excuse, and how do you legislate for that? For example I wonder last night of those involved outside the ground actually had tickets? A genuine question because I don't know.
Whatever it'll be easy enough to avoid trouble - just park up near Charlton village there'll be enough police around. I'd have thought though that a libertarian wouldn't be in favour of banning anyone...and no need to wet your beds. But reading through this thread I am beginning to see how easy it is for negatives to influence thought and behaviour. People expect the worst - and in this case I predict there'll be around 30 Millwall fans aiming to re-enact Football Factory and the rest presumably as embarassed at their antics as I am about how some Addicks are treating this threat.
CHARLTON VS MILLWALL= Tension, atmosphere and a great derby looking forward to it can not choofing wait.
Yes there will be those that want to do stuff and proberly will but it will be no where near as large scale everyone should chill out.
Groucho alot of what you have said makes sense i dont read it for one min that you have said there was no millsmall involvement and fair play to you,
apart from the now the old Chelsea,Spurs and anyone else bollx comes out that they were all there helping out either side of hoolies.
I am sure that both clubs have enough of their own hoolies to sort it out amongst themselves, all 4 clubs have a history of hooliganism between them i am sure peace was declared to iron out the Irons or to spanner the Millsmall
i think that this is being blown out of all proportion poor planning from the OB and piss poor from westham with the stewarding
[quote][cite]Posted By: suzisausage[/cite]In the same vein as your daughter missing a game, a young child, sister of a millwall mate I know, not groucho wouldn't be able to watch her team play away due to some small element of fans that have spoilt it. Its not all of their fault!
I agree something should be done to change it but it really is made massive when its not. Did you know len there was trouble on 1st game od season by charlton fans? Prob not as its not reported on and you'll still go down to valley thinking everything at charlton is rosy.
Charlton/Wycome fighting each other? I cant see that.
Comments
Spoon?
I'm fairly sure D Bent wouldn't celebrate in front of us. At least I hope he wouldn't :-(
Well put a STICKY up there sharpish then!
BFR you calculate £75k for a full Jimmy Seed. As Atletico has mentioned how much extra will we have to pay in policing costs over and above the norm because of Millwall visiting? I have no way of knowing but I reckon it would take most of that extra £75k.
Chizz thanks for understanding my post. If the demand was there that is exactly what I would do. Sell the Jimmy Seed to Charlton fans.
BFR again. In a previous post I referred to tacit approval of disgraceful behaviour. I possibly did not make myself clear but my reference was specifically to Millwall. As far as I can see little effort is made by Millwall to weed out their sizeable undesirable minority. If a few clubs made their Millwall fixtures Home Only perhaps the decent majoriy of Millwall would be less inclined to glory in the destructive behaviour of the scum once they realise that the behaviour of the scum is preventing them from travelling away. They may even press their club to take action against the scum.
You call me running scared. The truth of the matter is that I attend matches with my daughter so yes I am apprehensive on her behalf. If you prefer to use the phrase running scared as a Daily Mail fan sensationalising things then that is your perogative:-) I probably won't take her to the Millwall match at The Valley for that reason. Why though should it be her missing a match on her paid for season ticket rather than the troublemaking Millwall scum?
BFR......with the extra money we would have to spend on policing and security, plus the very real possibility of significant damage done to The Jimmy Seed stand I think it's a no brainer..however there may be 'legal' ramifications to concede with.
How do we prevent people without tickets travelling? There's absolutely nothing the club can do to those travelling without a ticket, just going for a tear-up. They've got no season ticket, no membership. Nothing at all that ultimately links them to Millwall FC. The club does enough to take as much action as it can against such undesirables, but now you're asking for the club to keep tabs on Joe Public?
If i wanted to go over to Arsenal v Spurs for a tear-up a mile from the ground, i'd go. How could either club stop me?
I agree something should be done to change it but it really is made massive when its not. Did you know len there was trouble on 1st game od season by charlton fans? Prob not as its not reported on and you'll still go down to valley thinking everything at charlton is rosy.
I'm not saying last night was ok and the norm but it happens week in week out by the minority of fans everywhere - don't think last night was isolated. I think atmospheres at a lot of away games can be intimidating. Leyton orient - guy next to me wanted to stand - bloke behind and a bit along asked him to sit down - 10 mins of 'you gonna f**king make me' 'who do u think u are' ensued over my head and thankfully it stopped. They didn't seem concerned I was sitting underneath them. There we're kids around too. Then if you have the misfortune of sitting near the home/away divide you get the signs, name calling 'offering out' I've even seen children join in.
That happens at every away game - whether you notice it usually depends on how good the game is, where you're sitting and how many fans we've got.
Fact is, organised fights need to be stopped and not to the detriment of others - from whichever side. Hope they catch the b'stards, ban em for life and hopefully mean others won't go the same way. I can't see our 'yoof' growing out of it even tho 2 have recently left prison!
If we can get 26000 Charlton fans to watch a League One game, with no opposition fans, then I'd like to know where 12,000 of them are spending their Saturdays.
BFR you calculate £75k for a full Jimmy Seed. As Atletico has mentioned how much extra will we have to pay in policing costs over and above the norm because of Millwall visiting? I have no way of knowing but I reckon it would take most of that extra £75k.
Chizz thanks for understanding my post. If the demand was there that is exactly what I would do. Sell the Jimmy Seed to Charlton fans.
BFR again. In a previous post I referred to tacit approval of disgraceful behaviour. I possibly did not make myself clear but my reference was specifically to Millwall. As far as I can see little effort is made by Millwall to weed out their sizeable undesirable minority. If a few clubs made their Millwall fixtures Home Only perhaps the decent majoriy of Millwall would be less inclined to glory in the destructive behaviour of the scum once they realise that the behaviour of the scum is preventing them from travelling away. They may even press their club to take action against the scum.
You call me running scared. The truth of the matter is that I attend matches with my daughter so yes I am apprehensive on her behalf. If you prefer to use the phrase running scared as a Daily Mail fan sensationalising things then that is your perogative:-) I probably won't take her to the Millwall match at The Valley for that reason. Why though should it be her missing a match on her paid for season ticket rather than the troublemaking Millwall scum?[/quote]
Of course policing costs will be higher than average - and if Atletico Addick is reading this if we could fill the JS Stand with 3,000 odd home fans then banning Millwall will be no trouble, but if we struggle to get 15,000/16,000 fans for teams in this league, do you really think that we are magically going to find 27,000 home fans to sell out both the home and away ends? I'm a tad dubious myself....
As to what the costs for policing on that day will be - you'll have to ask someone inside the club, besides a ban or no ban there'll have to be plenty of policing in and outside the ground that day. I can't imagine that the police will assume that there'll be no trouble just by simple expedient of banning away fans, so one way or the other we'll have a large police bill...you may think differently however.
As to whether Millwall are tacitly encouraging hooligans then I don't know, they'll claim they are co-operatating with the police while some evidence may support that common sense suggests that a complete crack down on their part is going to cost them too many fans. Generally I see a lot of evidence that football takes this problem seriously and Millwall as a club always point to the trouble that gets perprated in their name by thugs who never go near the ground and use the club as an excuse, and how do you legislate for that? For example I wonder last night of those involved outside the ground actually had tickets? A genuine question because I don't know.
Whatever it'll be easy enough to avoid trouble - just park up near Charlton village there'll be enough police around. I'd have thought though that a libertarian wouldn't be in favour of banning anyone...and no need to wet your beds. But reading through this thread I am beginning to see how easy it is for negatives to influence thought and behaviour. People expect the worst - and in this case I predict there'll be around 30 Millwall fans aiming to re-enact Football Factory and the rest presumably as embarassed at their antics as I am about how some Addicks are treating this threat.
MILLWALL VS WESTHAM = VIOLENCE
CHARLTON VS MILLWALL= Tension, atmosphere and a great derby looking forward to it can not choofing wait.
Yes there will be those that want to do stuff and proberly will but it will be no where near as large scale everyone should chill out.
Groucho alot of what you have said makes sense i dont read it for one min that you have said there was no millsmall involvement and fair play to you,
apart from the now the old Chelsea,Spurs and anyone else bollx comes out that they were all there helping out either side of hoolies.
I am sure that both clubs have enough of their own hoolies to sort it out amongst themselves, all 4 clubs have a history of hooliganism between them i am sure peace was declared to iron out the Irons or to spanner the Millsmall
i think that this is being blown out of all proportion poor planning from the OB and piss poor from westham with the stewarding
I agree something should be done to change it but it really is made massive when its not. Did you know len there was trouble on 1st game od season by charlton fans? Prob not as its not reported on and you'll still go down to valley thinking everything at charlton is rosy.
Charlton/Wycome fighting each other? I cant see that.