Gone a bit Peruvian socks and holistic candles these days.
There has always been that element there. In fact I'd say it's less South American socks and incense sticks than it used to be.
The thing is BDL, how can a market become "more" commercialised? Surely that's the whole point of a market? I don't have a problem with the market it's just that the planning and development is being done in a piecemeal, half arsed way within a borough that has not exactly covered itself with architectural glory in the past 10, 20, 30 or eve 40 years.
Sorry, but when ever there is talk of planning permission being granted for anything in Greenwich I shift uncomfortably in my seat expecting the worst.
my experience of Greenwich council is they seem not to be bothered about maintaining character, ref developments on woolwich road "blue building" and annandale rd sites.
Sure that LBG didn't design Millennium Village, that was English Partnerships (I think).....The Ferrier was the brainstorm of the Greenwich council....... It was built in two stages I believe. Ferrier was constructed by the London Borough of Greenwich on an old brownfield site to the east of Blackheath. The Ferrier Estate was built on two sites. Site A, approved in 1967, consisted of five 12-storey towers (Clegg, Crozier, Goldmark, Leclair & Sala Houses). Site B, approved in 1970, consists of six 12-storey towers (Felton, Ronald, Stainer, Standish, Sterling & Wixom Houses).[1] The estate was built using a system of concrete panels, usually manufactured on site rather like the Thamesmead estate in order to enable buildings to be erected quickly.. wikeipedia.....
My point is that the buildings that were built in the post war period for all sorts of reasons, typified by Greenwich council were neither pleasant places to live, or testements to architecture. I for one lived in the them! Yes I am sure that the council and the planning officers did it for the best of reasons, and yes there were some appauling rat infested hovels in the borough. However what Hitler did not level the council did! What remains of the waterfront along the Thames from Greenwich to Woolwich that is so wonderful that some of the warehouses and even factories could not have been preserved. ( is that not after all what the Royal Arsenal is currently doing) The tradition of barge building and the Thames has long been neglected, along with Woolwich Town centre. Woolwich was a vibrant town centre in the early 60s with a decent market now it is a shoddy £1 shop mecca, and the market flogs cheap dodgy goods. The covered market is frankly sad!.
Times change, and things evolve, the issue I have is that the council were anti business, and private development for years. It did not preserve it threw away it's heritage for a tommorow's world, untested and untried, in there fervent belief that they knew best. What they singularly fail to understand about the market development is that you can go to any town centre in the UK and get plastic, multi chain development. I agree the Greenwich market is not perfect and the traffic and pollution is appauling. Sympathetic restoration and preservation is what is needed, fair rents and a council that encourages small business and creative flair in the shops and stalls. The town hall or old town hall could be used in connection with the GDA and other local organisations, we really do not need another plastic shopping arcade.
Saw in the Mercury that they were going to end up shutting down Beachcomber while they restored the market to its former glory (which I'm guessing was going to involve filling it with Accesorise and Starbucks). Is that all shelved now then?
hoorah - Greenwich is a great place largely because it has all these independent stall holderd and shops instead of the same chain retailers you get up and down the land (indeed world in the case of starbucks + mcdonalds)
Silly question I know but ill ask anyway, wasnt Greenwich Hospital closed a while back the only reason I remember that is becasue I was born there... is the trust still active? I mean as a financial entity?
It's ironic that the old Greenwich District Hospital site is still empty. Greenwich Council say that any development has to be traffic neutral because of the traffic congestion in Trafalgar Road. They suggest a Leisure Centre having just spent money to update Greenwich Baths.
Meanwhile Greenwich Hospital (the old almshouses by the river) is trying to get planning permission for the market site and next door to the almshouses.
Traffic needs to be reduced in the area so the same rules should apply as the GDH site.
Given the the two hotels already nearby and the massive development along Creek Road, we do not need the boutique hotel.
Controversial perhaps, but is that particular part of Greenwich really that great?
The Nava college is great, the park is fantastic, going up Crooms Hill, Royal Hill and behind St Alfege's there are some great bits, but in my opinion, the one way system is full of crap restaurants, poor shops, chavvy bars that are all the same (owned by the same group).
Its very dirty as well.
The market is really just a collection of food stalls, again not all that great!
Not saying that what the Hospital have proposed is that great, but something really needs to be done.
Controversial perhaps, but is that particular part of Greenwich really that great?
The Nava college is great, the park is fantastic, going up Crooms Hill, Royal Hill and behind St Alfege's there are some great bits, but in my opinion, the one way system is full of crap restaurants, poor shops, chavvy bars that are all the same (owned by the same group).
Its very dirty as well.
The market is really just a collection of food stalls, again not all that great!
Not saying that what the Hospital have proposed is that great, but something really needs to be done. quote SE!O
How can you say that SE10..... I assume you live in Greenwich with that tag..... Each to there own I guess, and yes the traffic is bad, although it was mase more difficult by the temporary traffic lights opposite the maritime a week ago!.
The fact that it is a world heritage site, has some unique shops and if my memory serves me well has been the NO 1 tourist attration outside central London for decades, along with the park and Museum/Observatory, along with the riverside walks, I find it hard to think of many places which has such a unique appeal. That is not to say that sympathetic restoration in the area should not be embarked on. But with the close connection of Cinema, Dance, Theatre enrich this part of London.
A boutique hotel, in Creek Road would be laughed at from the genertation of folk who lived and worked around the area in the second world war, which by the way included my grandparents, who lived there early married life in this very street, and worked for the Steam Navigation Company. Speaking as a designer boutique hotels are fine in the right setting, but what about a performing arts centre, or museum of the Thames, as two ideas. Why not rejoice in the enviroment you live in, and if it is 'dirty' get the council to clean the place up..... I am sure she will scub up nicely and do for another few hundred years, long after boutique hotels are forgotten!
I'm not saying it needs a boutique hotel at all!! Not saying that I dont want it preserved either, just that it needs some work!
All I am saying is that allot of people are poo pooing the idea without coming up with a suggestion as what to do with it!
It cant carry on as it is. And the only issue I have is with the market site and the rows of shops around it. It can be preserved, but in my opinion, allot of the shops and restaurants around the site drag it down as it is.
And, no don't live there anymore I'm afraid. Too ruddy expensive!
Delighted to hear the decision. After develops ruined Spitalfields and Thameslink ruined Borough Market, I'm not interested in hearing any more of our traditional markets being refurbed by people who only care about money. It's a decent, odd, market and we've already lost the much better, slightly wonky market at the bottom of Crooms Hill, so I'm glad this one is safe for the time being.
Comments
Ferrier and Thamesmead were built back in the 60's so I doubt LBG had a say as planning laws were probably different . Guess they did with Millennium.
Back to Greenwich Town Centre. I was amazed at how commercialised it has become when we visited back in April.
The thing is BDL, how can a market become "more" commercialised? Surely that's the whole point of a market? I don't have a problem with the market it's just that the planning and development is being done in a piecemeal, half arsed way within a borough that has not exactly covered itself with architectural glory in the past 10, 20, 30 or eve 40 years.
Sorry, but when ever there is talk of planning permission being granted for anything in Greenwich I shift uncomfortably in my seat expecting the worst.
Sure that LBG didn't design Millennium Village, that was English Partnerships (I think).....The Ferrier was the brainstorm of the Greenwich council....... It was built in two stages I believe.
Ferrier was constructed by the London Borough of Greenwich on an old brownfield site to the east of Blackheath. The Ferrier Estate was built on two sites. Site A, approved in 1967, consisted of five 12-storey towers (Clegg, Crozier, Goldmark, Leclair & Sala Houses). Site B, approved in 1970, consists of six 12-storey towers (Felton, Ronald, Stainer, Standish, Sterling & Wixom Houses).[1] The estate was built using a system of concrete panels, usually manufactured on site rather like the Thamesmead estate in order to enable buildings to be erected quickly.. wikeipedia.....
My point is that the buildings that were built in the post war period for all sorts of reasons, typified by Greenwich council were neither pleasant places to live, or testements to architecture. I for one lived in the them!
Yes I am sure that the council and the planning officers did it for the best of reasons, and yes there were some appauling rat infested hovels in the borough. However what Hitler did not level the council did! What remains of the waterfront along the Thames from Greenwich to Woolwich that is so wonderful that some of the warehouses and even factories could not have been preserved. ( is that not after all what the Royal Arsenal is currently doing) The tradition of barge building and the Thames has long been neglected, along with Woolwich Town centre. Woolwich was a vibrant town centre in the early 60s with a decent market now it is a shoddy £1 shop mecca, and the market flogs cheap dodgy goods. The covered market is frankly sad!.
Times change, and things evolve, the issue I have is that the council were anti business, and private development for years. It did not preserve it threw away it's heritage for a tommorow's world, untested and untried, in there fervent belief that they knew best. What they singularly fail to understand about the market development is that you can go to any town centre in the UK and get plastic, multi chain development. I agree the Greenwich market is not perfect and the traffic and pollution is appauling. Sympathetic restoration and preservation is what is needed, fair rents and a council that encourages small business and creative flair in the shops and stalls. The town hall or old town hall could be used in connection with the GDA and other local organisations, we really do not need another plastic shopping arcade.
VFR - I meant Greenwich as a whole, not the market bit. Normal "High Street" chains instead of the quirky stuff that you used to find in Greenwich.
hoorah - Greenwich is a great place largely because it has all these independent stall holderd and shops instead of the same chain retailers you get up and down the land (indeed world in the case of starbucks + mcdonalds)
Some info here but will try and and find a bit more.
phantom
What the world does not need is another plastic shopping mall........ which is the reason why the market is so special......
If they could the americans would air lift this back to the USA every day of the week, and recreate it in California or Vegas.....
Nothing wrong with Borough Market, and Camden Lock is there..... you can hardly move for customers!
Meanwhile Greenwich Hospital (the old almshouses by the river) is trying to get planning permission for the market site and next door to the almshouses.
Traffic needs to be reduced in the area so the same rules should apply as the GDH site.
Given the the two hotels already nearby and the massive development along Creek Road, we do not need the boutique hotel.
The Nava college is great, the park is fantastic, going up Crooms Hill, Royal Hill and behind St Alfege's there are some great bits, but in my opinion, the one way system is full of crap restaurants, poor shops, chavvy bars that are all the same (owned by the same group).
Its very dirty as well.
The market is really just a collection of food stalls, again not all that great!
Not saying that what the Hospital have proposed is that great, but something really needs to be done.
The Nava college is great, the park is fantastic, going up Crooms Hill, Royal Hill and behind St Alfege's there are some great bits, but in my opinion, the one way system is full of crap restaurants, poor shops, chavvy bars that are all the same (owned by the same group).
Its very dirty as well.
The market is really just a collection of food stalls, again not all that great!
Not saying that what the Hospital have proposed is that great, but something really needs to be done. quote SE!O
How can you say that SE10..... I assume you live in Greenwich with that tag..... Each to there own I guess, and yes the traffic is bad, although it was mase more difficult by the temporary traffic lights opposite the maritime a week ago!.
The fact that it is a world heritage site, has some unique shops and if my memory serves me well has been the NO 1 tourist attration outside central London for decades, along with the park and Museum/Observatory, along with the riverside walks, I find it hard to think of many places which has such a unique appeal. That is not to say that sympathetic restoration in the area should not be embarked on. But with the close connection of Cinema, Dance, Theatre enrich this part of London.
A boutique hotel, in Creek Road would be laughed at from the genertation of folk who lived and worked around the area in the second world war, which by the way included my grandparents, who lived there early married life in this very street, and worked for the Steam Navigation Company. Speaking as a designer boutique hotels are fine in the right setting, but what about a performing arts centre, or museum of the Thames, as two ideas. Why not rejoice in the enviroment you live in, and if it is 'dirty' get the council to clean the place up..... I am sure she will scub up nicely and do for another few hundred years, long after boutique hotels are forgotten!
All I am saying is that allot of people are poo pooing the idea without coming up with a suggestion as what to do with it!
It cant carry on as it is. And the only issue I have is with the market site and the rows of shops around it. It can be preserved, but in my opinion, allot of the shops and restaurants around the site drag it down as it is.
And, no don't live there anymore I'm afraid. Too ruddy expensive!