[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]I think Curbs did look hard and very long at personality. Sometimes too long.
Really? Danny Murphy? Francis Jeffers?? Marcus effing Bent ?????
I could imagine Danny Murphy charms people, and hides his stroppy side, but you're telling me that Curbs thought Bent had the "right" personality, and not a shred of doubt that might have caused him to ring up one of the 6/7 managers who'd previously sold him before Moyes?
Not saying Curbs never got it wrong. Jeffers, Murphy, Rohmerdhal were meant to be the "great leap forward" that never happened and none were really "Curbs" players and I though that at the time. M Bent I agree was just bizarre.
But any of us could make a much bigger list of players with perhaps less ability but fantastic attitude that Curbs brought in. Kiely, Kins, Stuart, Powell, Holland, Kish, etc, etc, etc
That was disgraceful by Richard Murray and unacceptable, although it trickled out he apologised he never publicly apologised.
The fact that Easter could pick up the ball in front of the defence and run at will was damning towards one of the worst Charlton midfields I'd ever seen up to that point:- Rommedahl, Hughes, Faye and Thomas. Diawara always tried to place himself where the danger was happening whilst Fortune did his usual aimless stint; unlike when he's directly physically challenged by the likes of Alan Lee and Shearer and suddenly transforms into top class.
Diawara is a far superior defender to El Kak. If Steve Brown was called El Brownino he would be percevied prem class, he was a much better central defender than El Kak - better distribution and better positionally just not as flashy on the ball. El Kak and HH were truly woeful in 2006-7 season, cowardly in their physical effort and comical position wise: HH lost all his endeavour & tub thumping and any success he had for us at cb was down to the nous of Perry organising him. Like McCarthy after him Diawara was left to close down people and trouble isolated from his fellow cd and cm's.
Diawara came into a divided squad. One with little character and camaraderie. Luke Young was a superb palyer but had an impossible task to provide a cohesive togetherness in the squad; plus it's not his character. Perry, one of the most positionally aware English central defenders of his generation was cast aside. El Kak as a defender is, was and will always be a tragedy in the prem. HH is clueless tactically, and unfortunately for him his undoubted good desire/character.. had disappeared in a sea of lethargy at the club. Diawara had no chance to iron out positonal problems in a back four which was rudderless, leaderless and apart from Young incompetent.
It really riles me when players like McCarthy and Diawara are ready to put themselves on the line and challenge in dangerous areas, but people like Boughera, El Kak or Sodje are nowhere to be seen to back up their partner. Yes Boughera and El Kak could do a lovely piece of skill but they'd rather argue with a ref than make sure the gap between their fellow center half is ten foot, yet alone have the positional sense to push up or narrow the gap between them and their fellow defenders.
getting back to the team spirit is the one and only way out of this current mess....
its what has got us all the success we have had in the last 30 yrs... we all crave a shitliff a caton and a lennie, or a jonny a kinsella and a curbs...
the truth is we need to get some proper characters with balls... and some guys who will take it on, as there chance and there journey to get, and drag, this club back to a footing that doesnt see us hanging by a thread... a few yrs in league one and we are serious(more serious) financial trouble....
so we need some people, the right people.... we need people who are harder to find now, real people....
Wouldnt it be heaven sent if we found someone we could rely on ... a spine, god forbid, a solid five or six players that we can actually rely on to do a job....
[cite]Posted By: ColinTat[/cite]That was disgraceful by Richard Murray and unacceptable, although it trickled out he apologised he never publicly apologised.
The fact that Easter could pick up the ball in front of the defence and run at will was damning towards one of the worst Charlton midfields I'd ever seen up to that point:- Rommedahl, Hughes, Faye and Thomas. Diawara always tried to place himself where the danger was happening whilst Fortune did his usual aimless stint; unlike when he's directly physically challenged by the likes of Alan Lee and Shearer and suddenly transforms into top class.
Diawara is a far superior defender to El Kak. If Steve Brown was called El Brownino he would be percevied prem class, he was a much better central defender than El Kak - better distribution and better positionally just not as flashy on the ball. El Kak and HH were truly woeful in 2006-7 season, cowardly in their physical effort and comical position wise: HH lost all his endeavour & tub thumping and any success he had for us at cb was down to the nous of Perry organising him. Like McCarthy after him Diawara was left to close down people and trouble isolated from his fellow cd and cm's.
Diawara came into a divided squad. One with little character and camaraderie. Luke Young was a superb palyer but had an impossible task to provide a cohesive togetherness in the squad; plus it's not his character. Perry, one of the most positionally aware English central defenders of his generation was cast aside. El Kak as a defender is, was and will always be a tragedy in the prem. HH is clueless tactically, and unfortunately for him his undoubted good desire/character.. had disappeared in a sea of lethargy at the club. Diawara had no chance to iron out positonal problems in a back four which was rudderless, leaderless and apart from Young incompetent.
It really riles me when players like McCarthy and Diawara are ready to put themselves on the line and challenge in dangerous areas, but people like Boughera, El Kak or Sodje are nowhere to be seen to back up their partner. Yes Boughera and El Kak could do a lovely piece of skill but they'd rather argue with a ref than make sure the gap between their fellow center half is ten foot, yet alone have the positional sense to push up or narrow the gap between them and their fellow defenders.
[cite]Posted By: ColinTat[/cite]That was disgraceful by Richard Murray and unacceptable, although it trickled out he apologised he never publicly apologised.
He made an off the cuff remark in a meeting that was supposed to be behind closed doors but got leaked out and it has then been endlessly repeated. In any case the remark was in response to a question about Dowie not about the player. I'm sure that RM knew he'd made a mistake in making this remark, but to then publicaly apologise would have been the wrong thing to do, as it would have highlighted the remark in the first place and anyway, who's to say that RM didn't apologise to Diawara? Bbut it has given the perfectionists who never ever make a mistake something to keep dragging up.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Luke Young is a case in point. A player who was roundly condemned by many fans, including me, in his first couple of seasons. He said himself later that he had problems and that was when he got done for drunk driving.
He then settled domestically and improved hugely as a player to the point where he was playing for England.
So maybe it was time, maybe it was Curbs famous man management skills, maybe it was the love of a good woman. Who knows?
he was in yesterday's Observer "Fans' Verdict Team Of The Season" (possibly because he was the only right back to receive a nomination)
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]
disagree with just about all of that.
I actually agreed with most of it. I think Murray made a huge balls up with that comment, which was to a journalist in the car park. I agreed about the midfield, that El Kak was a luxury defender, and that HH was dire for us in his final year. I also agree Perry should have been retained as a squad man.
What i disagree with is i think Murray did publicly apologise, much later.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Luke Young is a case in point. A player who was roundly condemned by many fans, including me, in his first couple of seasons. He said himself later that he had problems and that was when he got done for drunk driving.
He then settled domestically and improved hugely as a player to the point where he was playing for England.
So maybe it was time, maybe it was Curbs famous man management skills, maybe it was the love of a good woman. Who knows?
he was in yesterday's Observer "Fans' Verdict Team Of The Season" (possibly because he was the only right back to receive a nomination)
maybe it was me letting on at the POTY do whilst slightly tipsy that i knew Luke had been in Charlie Chans one tuesday night befor Training had slept in a vehicle (not his) and had missed training whilst standing next to Curbs whose head went bright Red
TEK was decent for us, far from the worst defenders we've had. Nothing special, had some poor games and worse seasons than others. Not many players had a good 06/07 season. In the end there's a reason why HH is still in the Prem 2 seasons later, he is/was still capable of doing a decent job for Portsmouth.
[cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]TEK was decent for us, far from the worst defenders we've had. Nothing special, had some poor games and worse seasons than others. Not many players had a good 06/07 season. In the end there's a reason why HH is still in the Prem 2 seasons later, he is/was still capable of doing a decent job for Portsmouth.
What we all seem to be forgetting is the point that he is good at left back, but shocking at centre back. In his final season he played at centre back most of the time, hence why he had a terrible year.
[cite]What we all seem to be forgetting is the point that he is good at left back, but shocking at centre back. In his final season he played at centre back most of the time, hence why he had a terrible year.
Agreed...but why did he end up having to play there in the first place???
[cite]What we all seem to be forgetting is the point that he is good at left back, but shocking at centre back. In his final season he played at centre back most of the time, hence why he had a terrible year.[/cite]
[cite]
Agreed...but why did he end up having to play there in the first place???[/cite]
Maybe all our centre backs got lost on the Newcastle run?
Anyway, back to Diawara. I think the main lesson we can learn is that you shouldn't sign players who can't speak English in a position where communication is vital (obviously it's important in all positions, but arguably none more important than between your centre backs). As someone has already pointed out Vidic looked lost at United before he got a grasp of the language. I don't know if Souley ever did or not.
dabos....Costa could barely say, yes, no, hello, goodbye and I personaly think he's the greatest centre back I've ever seen in an Addikcs shirt....with the greatest respect to The Roof of course.
See he has been transfered to Marsielle for 6m euros wonder if we had a sell on!!
Always thought he had the attributes to be a good defender, just was with us at the wrong time
[quote][cite]Posted By: CAFCBourne[/cite]See he has been transfered to Marsielle for 6m euros wonder if we had a sell on!! Always thought he had the attributes to be a good defender, just was with us at the wrong time[/quote]
I see Bougerra is being tracked by a number of Prem sides - hope we have a sell-on with him also. Andy Reid may be on his bike - what would he have to go for to exceed what we sold him for?
Comments
Not saying Curbs never got it wrong. Jeffers, Murphy, Rohmerdhal were meant to be the "great leap forward" that never happened and none were really "Curbs" players and I though that at the time. M Bent I agree was just bizarre.
But any of us could make a much bigger list of players with perhaps less ability but fantastic attitude that Curbs brought in. Kiely, Kins, Stuart, Powell, Holland, Kish, etc, etc, etc
The fact that Easter could pick up the ball in front of the defence and run at will was damning towards one of the worst Charlton midfields I'd ever seen up to that point:- Rommedahl, Hughes, Faye and Thomas. Diawara always tried to place himself where the danger was happening whilst Fortune did his usual aimless stint; unlike when he's directly physically challenged by the likes of Alan Lee and Shearer and suddenly transforms into top class.
Diawara is a far superior defender to El Kak. If Steve Brown was called El Brownino he would be percevied prem class, he was a much better central defender than El Kak - better distribution and better positionally just not as flashy on the ball. El Kak and HH were truly woeful in 2006-7 season, cowardly in their physical effort and comical position wise: HH lost all his endeavour & tub thumping and any success he had for us at cb was down to the nous of Perry organising him. Like McCarthy after him Diawara was left to close down people and trouble isolated from his fellow cd and cm's.
Diawara came into a divided squad. One with little character and camaraderie. Luke Young was a superb palyer but had an impossible task to provide a cohesive togetherness in the squad; plus it's not his character. Perry, one of the most positionally aware English central defenders of his generation was cast aside. El Kak as a defender is, was and will always be a tragedy in the prem. HH is clueless tactically, and unfortunately for him his undoubted good desire/character.. had disappeared in a sea of lethargy at the club. Diawara had no chance to iron out positonal problems in a back four which was rudderless, leaderless and apart from Young incompetent.
It really riles me when players like McCarthy and Diawara are ready to put themselves on the line and challenge in dangerous areas, but people like Boughera, El Kak or Sodje are nowhere to be seen to back up their partner. Yes Boughera and El Kak could do a lovely piece of skill but they'd rather argue with a ref than make sure the gap between their fellow center half is ten foot, yet alone have the positional sense to push up or narrow the gap between them and their fellow defenders.
its what has got us all the success we have had in the last 30 yrs... we all crave a shitliff a caton and a lennie, or a jonny a kinsella and a curbs...
the truth is we need to get some proper characters with balls... and some guys who will take it on, as there chance and there journey to get, and drag, this club back to a footing that doesnt see us hanging by a thread... a few yrs in league one and we are serious(more serious) financial trouble....
so we need some people, the right people.... we need people who are harder to find now, real people....
Wouldnt it be heaven sent if we found someone we could rely on ... a spine, god forbid, a solid five or six players that we can actually rely on to do a job....
disagree with just about all of that.
He made an off the cuff remark in a meeting that was supposed to be behind closed doors but got leaked out and it has then been endlessly repeated. In any case the remark was in response to a question about Dowie not about the player. I'm sure that RM knew he'd made a mistake in making this remark, but to then publicaly apologise would have been the wrong thing to do, as it would have highlighted the remark in the first place and anyway, who's to say that RM didn't apologise to Diawara? Bbut it has given the perfectionists who never ever make a mistake something to keep dragging up.
Even the point about Chris Perry? (an outstanding VFM Curbs signing)
Another example of the right attitude.
Perry was excellent but think it's wrong to say that HH only had success when Parry was organising him.
Not that we knew at the time.
Yes................... he did 'very' well for us and should never been elbowed.
I actually agreed with most of it. I think Murray made a huge balls up with that comment, which was to a journalist in the car park. I agreed about the midfield, that El Kak was a luxury defender, and that HH was dire for us in his final year. I also agree Perry should have been retained as a squad man.
What i disagree with is i think Murray did publicly apologise, much later.
maybe it was me letting on at the POTY do whilst slightly tipsy that i knew Luke had been in Charlie Chans one tuesday night befor Training had slept in a vehicle (not his) and had missed training whilst standing next to Curbs whose head went bright Red
What we all seem to be forgetting is the point that he is good at left back, but shocking at centre back. In his final season he played at centre back most of the time, hence why he had a terrible year.
Agreed...but why did he end up having to play there in the first place???
Maybe all our centre backs got lost on the Newcastle run?
Anyway, back to Diawara. I think the main lesson we can learn is that you shouldn't sign players who can't speak English in a position where communication is vital (obviously it's important in all positions, but arguably none more important than between your centre backs). As someone has already pointed out Vidic looked lost at United before he got a grasp of the language. I don't know if Souley ever did or not.
Always thought he had the attributes to be a good defender, just was with us at the wrong time
Always thought he had the attributes to be a good defender, just was with us at the wrong time[/quote]
I see Bougerra is being tracked by a number of Prem sides - hope we have a sell-on with him also. Andy Reid may be on his bike - what would he have to go for to exceed what we sold him for?