Yes, for people who are suffering and have no way back, but obviously not to some kid who's just failed their A levels and can't go to their chosen Uni.
[cite]Posted By: Daggs[/cite]Assisted suicide should be made legal. But not within the NHS. It should be available in private clinics.
Should the poor not have the same access then?
I don't see it as a role for the NHS. Which is a body commited to improving and saving life. Besides it is not possible to create this facility in 'the UK' as the NHS is a devolved matter. It would need the agreement of the Scots. Parliament, Welsh and N.Ireland assemblies and the British Government in Westminster.
Someone ready to end their own life would be willing to pay. I don't see it would need to cost a large amount.
But would not the counselling and legal checks that would be needed (to prevent abuse) be costly also.
OK, the law would have to be changed and approved by various bodies but leaving that to one side if it is made legal should it then not be a service for all.
And surely private hospitals are the same as the NHS as they aim to make people better and improve life, only for a direct fee.
Life also means having a quality of life including dignity and the right to choose
[cite]Posted By: Daggs[/cite]
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]
[cite]Posted By: Daggs[/cite]Assisted suicide should be made legal. But not within the NHS. It should be available in private clinics.
Should the poor not have the same access then?
I don't see it as a role for the NHS. Which is a body commited to improving and saving life. Besides it is not possible to create this facility in 'the UK' as the NHS is a devolved matter. It would need the agreement of the Scots. Parliament, Welsh and N.Ireland assemblies and the British Government in Westminster.
Someone ready to end their own life would be willing to pay. I don't see it would need to cost a large amount.
Life in medical terms also means quality of life. Many treatments that are currently given - Palliative treatments are given in order to improve quality not quantity. You have a right at the moment to refuse treatment and can even demand that you are not resusitated should that occasion arise. Is this such a big step from offering people with genuinely poor quality of life and worsening prognosis the option of choosing when and where they die thus enabling them a dignified and ordered departure rather than the often undignified and distressing death we currently see. I know which I would prefer but then that is a choice which is currently denied by people who make that decision based largely upon lack of knowledge or experience of terminally ill people or based upon in my opinion irrelevent outdated religious dogma.
Yes. Everyone's life is their own. If they've had enough - who are the state to disagree? Lots of safeguards needed though.
Gotta be done right though:
You say there ain't no use in livin' It's all a waste of time 'N you wanna throw your life away, well People that's just fine Go ahead on 'n get it over with then Find you a bridge 'n take a jump Just make sure you do it right the first time 'Cause nothin's worse than a Suicide Chump
You say there ain't no light a-shinin' Through the bushes up ahead 'N we're all gonna be so sorry When we find out you are dead Go head on and get it over with then Find you a bridge 'n take a jump Just make sure you do it right the first time 'Cause nothin's worse than a Suicide Chump
Now maybe you're scared of jumpin' 'N poison makes you sick 'N you want a little attention 'N you need it pretty quick Don't wanna mess your face up Or we won't know if it's you Aw, there's just so much to worry about Now what you gonna do? Go head on 'n get it over with then Go head on 'n get it over with then Go head on 'n get it over with then Go head on 'n get it over with then
artist: Frank Zappa title: Suicide Chump album: You Are What You Is
I lay right there once
On the edge of the rock
I was ready to jump
I was ever so lost
But this gentlemen stopped
And said something I never forgot
For billions of years
Since the outset of time
Every single one of your ancestors survived
Every single person on your mums and dad's side
Successfully looked after and passed onto you life
What are the chances of that like
It comes to me once in a while
And everywhere i tell folk
It gets the best smile
And then the old man walked away
And out of sight
Till the sound of him hiking
Turned to the sound of silence
I juss froze in a profound surprise
And from down on my pride
I found a smile to my eyes
And for many days again
I would be passing the same cliff
And on many occasions
I would chance on the same thing
Laying in the moss
In the same way I was
Would be another man
Looking like he needed a change of luck
So I'd say I lay right there once
On the edge of the rock
I was ready to jump
I was ever so lost
But this gentlemen stopped
And said something I never forgot
For billions of years
Since the outset of time
Every single one of your ancestors survived
Every single person on your mums and dad's side
Successfully looked after and passed onto you life
What are the chances of that like
It comes to me once in a while
And every where i tell folk
It gets the best smile
Firstly, as has already been mentioned, the NHS’s primary role is to maintain and preserve life, not to take it away. Also it’s a bit of a slippery slope. For instance once abortion was legalized ( I know it’s an old fashioned example) the boundaries of what was an acceptable amount of time until termination have been pushed and pushed until we’re at a point now where even doctors and health care professionals think we’ve gone too far. If we legalize it in one case it’s only a matter of time before a court rules it should be allowed in another example, then another, then another. Basically we’ll end up with legalized suicide which anyone will be able to invoke.
Taking this into account, the small numbers of people who will really benefit from this (and I truly feel sorry for them) are outweighed by greater social concerns.
There are also religious reasons but I don’t think it appropriate to bring them up, although they will be fundamental reasons to many (myself included).
Henrys very good poem -A very romantic view of life and not one recognised I am sure by many people with terminal illness and great pain. As previously stated. Assisted suicide must be tightly controlled and not available for people just depressed or looking for a way out of what would be perceived by most to be quality life.
Firstly, as has already been mentioned, the NHS’s primary role is to maintain and preserve life, not to take it away. Also it’s a bit of a slippery slope. For instance once abortion was legalized ( I know it’s an old fashioned example) the boundaries of what was an acceptable amount of time until termination have been pushed and pushed until we’re at a point now where even doctors and health care professionals think we’ve gone too far. If we legalize it in one case it’s only a matter of time before a court rules it should be allowed in another example, then another, then another. Basically we’ll end up with legalized suicide which anyone will be able to invoke.
Taking this into account, the small numbers of people who will really benefit from this (and I truly feel sorry for them) are outweighed by greater social concerns.
There are also religious reasons but I don’t think it appropriate to bring them up, although they will be fundamental reasons to many (myself included).
[quote][cite]Posted By: ShootersHillGuru[/cite]A very romantic view of life and not one recognised I am sure by many people with terminal illness and great pain. As previously stated. Assisted suicide must be tightly controlled and not available for people just depressed or looking for a way out of what would be perceived by most to be quality life.[/quote]
But who are you to say someone who has depression has a good enough quality of life to satisfy you're criteria ? Or, put another way, how long until someone with depression with alot of money is able to higher a big shot lawyer who can convince a judge that his depression has lowered his quality of life to such a level that he should be admitted.
[cite]Posted By: ShootersHillGuru[/cite]Henrys very good poem -.
The Edge of the Cliff - The Streets/Mike Skinner
[cite]Posted By: IdleHans[/cite]"Someone ready to end their own life would be willing to pay. I don't see it would need to cost a large amount."
Surely you'd just stick it on your credit card and let some other sucker sort it out later.
LOL I think they may want cash up front.
[cite]Posted By: se9addick[/cite]
There are also religious reasons but I don’t think it appropriate to bring them up, although they will be fundamental reasons to many (myself included).
That is quite proper but should other people have to live, literally, by those religious beliefs that they don't share.
I think the control of any assisted suicide should and must be in the control of medics. Cannot happen unless three doctors, one being the consultant all agree that it should be allowed. As for depression. That is not a terminal illness and as far as I am aware can be treated in certain cases with some success. Assisted suicide should be reserved only for those with terminal illness with a degeneration of quality of life and no others.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]But would not the counselling and legal checks that would be needed (to prevent abuse) be costly also.
OK, the law would have to be changed and approved by various bodies but leaving that to one side if it is made legal should it then not be a service for all.
And surely private hospitals are the same as the NHS as they aim to make people better and improve life, only for a direct fee.
I'm sure the counselling could and would be done within the NHS. After all you would have to be pretty damn ill to consider suicide and would presumably have been seeking treatment.
I wasn't referring to private hospitals. I meant private clinics to deal with the single issue of 'assisted suicide' along the lines of the Swiss model.
They would supply the service to all, for a price. As i said, if you are thinking about assisted suicide, i'm sure the financial side of it would also have been taken into account.
It's a difficult and very emotive subject. Someone else mentioned the religous element of it. Whilst this is of no concern to me, i know it is important to some. I believe every human has the right to end their life with the maximum of dignity, if they believe the time has come.
Personally no: Suffered Deep Depression years ago and will be on "HappyPills" for the rest of my life (hence username).
But.............If someone is suffering so badly..................
Lets have compulsory euthanasia at 80.
Strain on the NHS is reduced - freeing beds and cash.
More housing is available.
When you retire you know exactly the maximum amount of time you have got to spend your pension - no need to scrimp in case you live to 83,88,94.
Has anything useful ever been invented by someone over 80 ?
Comments
That would be murder and that is a crime : - )
Should the poor not have the same access then?
Should be made legal but also available for all not just those with enough money to pay for a private clinic.
Nooses give;
Gas smells awful;
You might as well live.
Please explain why?
What happened to Henrys discuss ????
I don't see it as a role for the NHS. Which is a body commited to improving and saving life. Besides it is not possible to create this facility in 'the UK' as the NHS is a devolved matter. It would need the agreement of the Scots. Parliament, Welsh and N.Ireland assemblies and the British Government in Westminster.
Someone ready to end their own life would be willing to pay. I don't see it would need to cost a large amount.
OK, the law would have to be changed and approved by various bodies but leaving that to one side if it is made legal should it then not be a service for all.
And surely private hospitals are the same as the NHS as they aim to make people better and improve life, only for a direct fee.
Life in medical terms also means quality of life. Many treatments that are currently given - Palliative treatments are given in order to improve quality not quantity. You have a right at the moment to refuse treatment and can even demand that you are not resusitated should that occasion arise. Is this such a big step from offering people with genuinely poor quality of life and worsening prognosis the option of choosing when and where they die thus enabling them a dignified and ordered departure rather than the often undignified and distressing death we currently see. I know which I would prefer but then that is a choice which is currently denied by people who make that decision based largely upon lack of knowledge or experience of terminally ill people or based upon in my opinion irrelevent outdated religious dogma.
Gotta be done right though:
You say there ain't no use in livin'
It's all a waste of time
'N you wanna throw your life away, well
People that's just fine
Go ahead on 'n get it over with then
Find you a bridge 'n take a jump
Just make sure you do it right the first time
'Cause nothin's worse than a Suicide Chump
You say there ain't no light a-shinin'
Through the bushes up ahead
'N we're all gonna be so sorry
When we find out you are dead
Go head on and get it over with then
Find you a bridge 'n take a jump
Just make sure you do it right the first time
'Cause nothin's worse than a Suicide Chump
Now maybe you're scared of jumpin'
'N poison makes you sick
'N you want a little attention
'N you need it pretty quick
Don't wanna mess your face up
Or we won't know if it's you
Aw, there's just so much to worry about
Now what you gonna do?
Go head on 'n get it over with then
Go head on 'n get it over with then
Go head on 'n get it over with then
Go head on 'n get it over with then
artist: Frank Zappa
title: Suicide Chump
album: You Are What You Is
On the edge of the rock
I was ready to jump
I was ever so lost
But this gentlemen stopped
And said something I never forgot
For billions of years
Since the outset of time
Every single one of your ancestors survived
Every single person on your mums and dad's side
Successfully looked after and passed onto you life
What are the chances of that like
It comes to me once in a while
And everywhere i tell folk
It gets the best smile
And then the old man walked away
And out of sight
Till the sound of him hiking
Turned to the sound of silence
I juss froze in a profound surprise
And from down on my pride
I found a smile to my eyes
And for many days again
I would be passing the same cliff
And on many occasions
I would chance on the same thing
Laying in the moss
In the same way I was
Would be another man
Looking like he needed a change of luck
So I'd say I lay right there once
On the edge of the rock
I was ready to jump
I was ever so lost
But this gentlemen stopped
And said something I never forgot
For billions of years
Since the outset of time
Every single one of your ancestors survived
Every single person on your mums and dad's side
Successfully looked after and passed onto you life
What are the chances of that like
It comes to me once in a while
And every where i tell folk
It gets the best smile
Firstly, as has already been mentioned, the NHS’s primary role is to maintain and preserve life, not to take it away. Also it’s a bit of a slippery slope. For instance once abortion was legalized ( I know it’s an old fashioned example) the boundaries of what was an acceptable amount of time until termination have been pushed and pushed until we’re at a point now where even doctors and health care professionals think we’ve gone too far. If we legalize it in one case it’s only a matter of time before a court rules it should be allowed in another example, then another, then another. Basically we’ll end up with legalized suicide which anyone will be able to invoke.
Taking this into account, the small numbers of people who will really benefit from this (and I truly feel sorry for them) are outweighed by greater social concerns.
There are also religious reasons but I don’t think it appropriate to bring them up, although they will be fundamental reasons to many (myself included).
Surely you'd just stick it on your credit card and let some other sucker sort it out later.
What would the slippery slope be exactly ?
But who are you to say someone who has depression has a good enough quality of life to satisfy you're criteria ? Or, put another way, how long until someone with depression with alot of money is able to higher a big shot lawyer who can convince a judge that his depression has lowered his quality of life to such a level that he should be admitted.
The Edge of the Cliff - The Streets/Mike Skinner
LOL I think they may want cash up front.
That is quite proper but should other people have to live, literally, by those religious beliefs that they don't share.
I'm sure the counselling could and would be done within the NHS. After all you would have to be pretty damn ill to consider suicide and would presumably have been seeking treatment.
I wasn't referring to private hospitals. I meant private clinics to deal with the single issue of 'assisted suicide' along the lines of the Swiss model.
They would supply the service to all, for a price. As i said, if you are thinking about assisted suicide, i'm sure the financial side of it would also have been taken into account.
It's a difficult and very emotive subject. Someone else mentioned the religous element of it. Whilst this is of no concern to me, i know it is important to some. I believe every human has the right to end their life with the maximum of dignity, if they believe the time has come.
But.............If someone is suffering so badly..................
Strain on the NHS is reduced - freeing beds and cash.
More housing is available.
When you retire you know exactly the maximum amount of time you have got to spend your pension - no need to scrimp in case you live to 83,88,94.
Has anything useful ever been invented by someone over 80 ?