As I sat through yesterday watching hudson sport the captains armband, I consoled myself by thinking about the fact that he almost certainly wont be here next season. Hes a palace to sser, it offended me when he was made captain, and, as stupid as it may sound from a charlton fan, i actually wanted him to do badly for us because I detest him.
This reminded me of a less intense version of how I felt when Dowie was appointed. I really loathed the creature (and still do), i always knew he would be s*it and i always knew he shouldnt be there - i think everybody agrees now with hindsight that he was a disaster, but I can honestly say I didn't want him FROM DAY ONE. I remember joking with my brother when curbs left about how ridiculous it was that the bookies were even offering odds on us appointing him because I thought it was so inconceivable. Again, as bad as it may sound, a big part of me wanted us to do badly for as long as he was on charge so that he would p iss off, a part of me was happy every time we lost as it felt like it was a step nearer to getting rid of him and hopefully replacing it with somebody who i genuinely liked and had an affinity with, like Curbs. I remember his introductory press conference, he referred to "a dark day that we experienced here last year" - "we" referring to the scum and the "dark day" referring to the joyous occasion when we relegated them. That just highlighted how horrifically wrong he was for charlton, it was never going to work with him, how can the bloke come from being at palar se two weeks before, and how is he ever going to fit in at charlton when he looks back on that day with regret and upset when every charlton fan looks back on his gutted face after the game with pleasure and amusement. I fondly look back on the chesterfield away game, after which he came over to celebrate and take the plaudits from our fans (celebrate a fortuitous win over a side 2 divisions below us!), at which point i and several other charlton fans hurled abuse at him.
This brings me to ask the question - what were other peoples reactions when dowie was first appointed? I found it concerning that most/all other charlton fans seemed to like him; all those who were interview on Sky sports news said they thought he was a good appointment, and when he came onto the pitch away at millwall and then when he was introduced before his first home game against man u, me, my dad and my brothers were the only ones booing, everybody else was cheering! It made me sick when people sang "iain dowies red and white army", what had the bloke done to deserve this sort of support, Curbs bloody well earnt having his name cheered and chanted, the only thing iain dowie deserved was abuse for turning up at selhurst park in a palace tracksuit every saturday!
Were we the only people who felt like this? Was anybody else disgusted by his appointment at the time?!
I imagine some people might say that we should support charlton regardless of who is in charge / playing for the team, and I agree to some extent, hence why I still insist on attending every single home game and most away games despite the fact I have only actually enjoyed being there two or three times this season. However, perhaps I have been spoilt from growing up in the 90s with a team of players and management the majority of whom I really liked, respected, felt a real association with and felt that they really bloody appreciated wearing a Charlton shirt and worked for everything they achieved - Curbs, Kinsella, Rufus, Robinson, Brownie, Deano, Leaburn, Mortimer, Nelson, Walsh - but because Ive experienced that I dont want to "sell out" now and try and achieve success either by throwing some middle eastern money at us or getting half our squad/management in desperation from palace or millwall. Perhaps I'm stupid, but I don't think thats what Charlton is about, and I'd rather go down with people I like and who care about Charlton than succeed with somebody else. Unfortunately, at the moment we are going down with people who I don't like and who don't care about Charlton.
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He was so out of touch that they couldn't even find him to sack him on a day that he didn't bother to show up for training.
Dowie may be water under the bridge, but that water is still flowing freely. Maybe instead of water, it is the blood and sweat of so many that built the club into a Pemiership regular and can now only shed a few tears as the downward spiral takes us into the Third Division.
Pardew didn't stop the rot, and Parky seems incapable, and the people that put them in their positions bear some responsibility. But Dowie, who amazingly has gotten two more jobs since the disaster in SE7, starts the list of those most culpable.
Agreed 100%, it was a terrible decision to give him the job. I had a gut feeling at the time that this was not the Charlton way to get a manager in those circumstances and that we would pay a heavy price for it.Boy, did we ever do that.
My initial reaction was positive. He was an intelligent guy with a reasonable track record. I was not at all bothered about the Palace connection. What does it matter? Footballers, coaches and managers are effectively mercenaries who are paid to work for a club whether they support that club or not and the past is totally irrelevant.
I was bemused by many of his player purchases but you should remember that a certain Andrew Mills was also heavily involved in this and cannot be absolved from the blame. He had the power of veto. They weren't 'Charlton-type-players'. But did the board want typical Charlton types? Did they not want to take the club one step further?
Was appointing Dowie a mistake? In hindsight yes. But the biggest mistake was giving him too much money to spend without proper board control.
The Mills involvement was possibly the biggest mistake of all.
Between them they started the fall of Charlton Athletic.
Anyway, this has been done to death, it's way in the past. Let's think about the future in good old division three.
we should have given him the job and let him have chosen his own coaching set up rather than forcing one on him
he signed crap but so did pardew
i know i'm in a small minority but if dowie had stayed there's no way imo that we'd be worse off than we are now...
and he also got us to our best achievment in the league cup until uncle les worked his magic ;-(
12 league games was never enough and the subsequent fall of our club can be partially blamed on him but pardew and parky have speeded up the process
I agree that Pardew made things worse with his half-baked signings but I can't put too much blame on Parkison in all honesty.
I mean, by the time the festering turd had been passed onto Parky we were well an truly skint and had a squad in tatters.
That's not to say that I am not disappointed with the performance of the team under Parky because I am.
Completely untrue.
I thought Mills was there to help with contract negotiations and things like that, if Dowie wanted a player, the board were happy to make a bid for him, it was hardly Mills' fault? He wasn't here as a football expert or some sort of scout, he was a former agent.
What made me say that?- The crap Palace team he had in the premiership- christ we relegated them in the previous season, so what made the board think that Dowie would be able to handle a bigger club (OK not that much bigger per se but still more than he had experienced at Palace). I think the biggest mistake he made ( apart from accepting the job) was not playing Kish- not the best player in the world, but a fighter and a scrapper which most of his signings weren't.
Couldn't agree more. Kish was absolutely central to our relative success in the premiership. His snapping up of bits and pieces, and his tireless running made the platform for others -- Jensen, Murphy etc. -- to play. A bit beside the point, but the other underrated player we never found a replacement for was Graham Stuart.
Maybe, just maybe, if the fixtures computer had thrown up a different set of opening fixtures we'd have picked up a few more points ealry on, the team would have had a lot more confidence and who knows, Dowie may have have been able to keep us up. Maybe not, but to me it was a factor.
Obviously reed was out of his depth, but personally I think he was very hard done by - he took over outside of the window stuck with the side that dowie had assembled, and the media just took the mick out of him as soon as he came in, again - he was on a hiding to nothing. Dowie's poor judgement of players was highlighted by the fact that he said our poor start to the season was down to the absence through injury of bryan hughes, who he saw as a key player!
I don't recall the quote about Hughes.
Reed was out of his depth as a manager and it was his short spell in charge that really did for us - under him we won one match - Blackburn I think with a goal scored in the 93rd minute direct from an El Kalkouri free-kick. As I recall Reed was shouting on the sideline at the time that anyone but El K should take the free-kick. After that the players seemed to give up and Pardew wasn't able to halt the slide.
We also had a lot of bad luck in Dowie's short reign with injuries, plus a couple of defenders got themselves suspended after being sent-off.
You're bang on mate, it couldn't have been a more difficult start - and didn't help the player confidence factor early on with so few points on the board.
A bad start to the season invariably dictates a struggle throughout - few teams manage to turn it round.
Teams winning = confidence and more winning
Teams losing = low morale.and continuing poor results
Although, of course in Dowie's case there were other factors as well, and he didn't really help himself - but if you look back, the gods weren't on his side from the start.
Likewise - he signed Djimi Traore - we all know how poor he was - but it was not bad luck that he was suspended. He got sent off half an hour into his debut at west ham for a ridiculously stupid, needless 2nd booking only 10minutes after receiving his first one. It wasnt bad luck for Dowie that he was suspended - that is what you get for signing bad/indisciplined players I'm afraid.
Pleased that you have admitted that it was you and your mates that hurled abuse and swore disgracefully at Dowie away at Chesterfield. That was one of the most disgusting things I have ever seen and heard from Charlton supporters and I was thoroughly ashamed.
NB I was never a fan of Dowie but wouldn't abuse my worst enemy as he was abused at the end of that match.
For the record, I was not with any "mates" at this point, the other people shouting and chanting at him were other Charlton fans who I was not with and do not know. So perhaps if you are referring to anything more offensive and unfounded which was shouted it came from those people.
Likewise - he signed Djimi Traore - we all know how poor he was - but it was not bad luck that he was suspended. He got sent off half an hour into his debut at west ham for a ridiculously stupid, needless 2nd booking only 10minutes after receiving his first one. It wasnt bad luck for Dowie that he was suspended - that is what you get for signing bad/indisciplined players I'm afraid.[/quote]
[quote][cite]Posted By: paulsturgess[/cite]Perhaps it was because I was so biased against him, but I don't think that the injuries and suspensions were bad luck. He signed Andy Reid who was an excellent player, but it was also common knowledge that he was very, very injury prone. Dowie knew this when he signed him and it was therefore very poor management to be relying on him to be fit and in the side - if he gets injured, tough you shouldve thought about that when you were spending your 13 million quid.
Likewise - he signed Djimi Traore - we all know how poor he was - but it was not bad luck that he was suspended. He got sent off half an hour into his debut at west ham for a ridiculously stupid, needless 2nd booking only 10minutes after receiving his first one. It wasnt bad luck for Dowie that he was suspended - that is what you get for signing bad/indisciplined players I'm afraid.[/quote]
[quote][cite]Posted By: paulsturgess[/cite]Perhaps it was because I was so biased against him, but I don't think that the injuries and suspensions were bad luck. He signed Andy Reid who was an excellent player, but it was also common knowledge that he was very, very injury prone. Dowie knew this when he signed him and it was therefore very poor management to be relying on him to be fit and in the side - if he gets injured, tough you shouldve thought about that when you were spending your 13 million quid.
Likewise - he signed Djimi Traore - we all know how poor he was - but it was not bad luck that he was suspended. He got sent off half an hour into his debut at west ham for a ridiculously stupid, needless 2nd booking only 10minutes after receiving his first one. It wasnt bad luck for Dowie that he was suspended - that is what you get for signing bad/indisciplined players I'm afraid.[/quote]
[quote][cite]Posted By: paulsturgess[/cite]Perhaps it was because I was so biased against him, but I don't think that the injuries and suspensions were bad luck. He signed Andy Reid who was an excellent player, but it was also common knowledge that he was very, very injury prone. Dowie knew this when he signed him and it was therefore very poor management to be relying on him to be fit and in the side - if he gets injured, tough you shouldve thought about that when you were spending your 13 million quid.
Likewise - he signed Djimi Traore - we all know how poor he was - but it was not bad luck that he was suspended. He got sent off half an hour into his debut at west ham for a ridiculously stupid, needless 2nd booking only 10minutes after receiving his first one. It wasnt bad luck for Dowie that he was suspended - that is what you get for signing bad/indisciplined players I'm afraid.[/quote]
Ried was not a bad player but 3 stone overweight! at that level you need players who are at the peak of their physical prowess, not a player who frequents the local Pie shop 3 times a day FFS
But of the candidates we looked at and who were offerered the job, who had? I don't think any of them. My recollection is that we looked at Davies - offered job went awol and refused , Dowie - Offerred, Peter Taylor - turned down further discussions after being told we did not want to talk to him any more and Phil parkinson - refused permission to speak to us.
We had gone for the option of a cheap manager but to give that person the most money we have given anyone
the correct option would have been a more expensive manager with a workable budget.