I like the notes and it sounds like a positive meeting.
I'm not sure about the idea of a football advisor myself. It sounds like it's a reaction to the scapegoating that has gone on in order to explain away some poor decision making. If bad signings, overpayment, long contracts and high wages were ALL the fault of Dowie or ALL the fault of Pardew then what will the advisor add? Sure he might have advised against them, but to be fair we had dozens of people who've been in the industry for years at the club at the time. If none of them knew that Traore and Faye were rubbish, I'm not sure that another "expert" would add much to the process. To me it'll just be another person to blame when decisions turn out to be wrong and everyone gets into a finger pointing war. It may make the manager feel undermined and it's another mouth to feed.
I would like to congratulate Dave and all the members of the Fans' Forum in producing a constructive discussion which will be of interest to many Charlton fans, like myself, who are not "in the know". OK some of you might not agree with everything in the minutes but that does not detract from the overall success of the Forum. We used to have a Fans' Director, some seemed to be good and some not so, but they all had the problem that they were bound by the confidentiality of the Board Room, we shall never know whether they managed to change any Board decisions or were just listened to politely. So far this Forum seems to work well, again whether it will be listened to by the Board is as yet unknown but I do believe that we fans now have more information about the running of our club than in the days of the Fans' Director, and that is no criticism of those representatives as they were bound by confidentiality. So thanks Dave for chairing and thanks Richard and his team for listening, lets hope it does the club some good.
Very interesting notes. To me, the critical comments are those about Zabeel. We only publicised their offer because they asked us to & that publicity led directly to unrest among the playing staff (& an 18 game run where we won no games at all!!).
Zabeel Investments have got a hell of a lot to answer for.
[cite]Posted By: lancashire lad[/cite] So far this Forum seems to work well, again whether it will be listened to by the Board is as yet unknown but I do believe that we fans now have more information about the running of our club than in the days of the Fans' Director, and that is no criticism of those representatives as they were bound by confidentiality.
So thanks Dave for chairing and thanks Richard and his team for listening, lets hope it does the club some good.
Agreed. The Board has listened though, whether they feel they need to act on suggestions by the Fans Forum is relative. perhaps. But the Fans Forum also gets the chance to discuss issues firsthand at these meetings and report back to the supporter base.
This 2-way communication between Board and Forum is the key thing - and mustn't be lost.
So thanks to everyone on both sides.
The idea of a football advisor is ridiculous. That's what you have a football manager for. Who's to say that the football advisor knows more than the manager? Why arent they the manager then. Ridiculous and unworkable. Oh and patronising. Are you going to be the football advisor Dave? Or do you know who should do it?
The idea of a fans forum is a good one but to have someone who thinks that this is a good idea representing me and my opinions makes me cringe. I hope it wasnt one shared by too many.
OK, with apologies, the webpage is down while we make a few updates to the notes.
More news later.
blackheathaddick - your view is noted. Not shared by a number of your fellow fans, which is why we made the suggestion, but we take note of your comments. The notes did express some suggestions as to who might fulfil the advisory role. Not me, though ......... but thanks for the recommendation!
The polarity on the question of football "advisor" is interesting. The traditional view is that "it's the Managers job". No problem with that view and you know what your getting then. Everything the Manager wants he gets subject to the resources being available and the personnel wanting to join.
On the other hand why do we think that employing one person - The Manager, who makes decisions to spend the clubs meagre resources (or dispose of them as is his want) is the best way to do things just because we've always done things that way.
Clubs have flirted with the idea or Directors of Football, and things come unstuck when the egos of the Managers concerned get ruffled. At West Ham, for example, with Zola as manager, do they not have a Director of Football? I realise Dave is not advocating a Director of Football role but, in effect, a football technician at a board level, does act in both an advisory and directoral role.
My view is that clubs need to think through carefully how much rope they give the Manager, with which to hang, not just himself but also the club, and it's staff who earn their livelihood from his sole choices. The lower divisions are littered with teams who have been broken by the egos of individual managers.
I can't think of many business where the directors rely solely on one persons advice for the signing of key personal to the "team".
Now take Allardyce for example. When at Bolton, I believe he had a team of people around him, including trickcyclists and others who helped him chose the players to sign. Maybe as a Board, they need to establish with the manager robust systems for selecting potential new signings not simply based around seeing a video or watching the player a few times or the advice of the chief scout. That way signing players is less on the whim of one bloke.
I take the point Dave makes about Andy Reid, and it maybe the right point but the wrong circumstances. I am assuming that Dave is talking about the Board wanting to cash in financially but leaving the club short of an altenative player in the role. As I understand it, the decision to sell Reid was based on Pardew's advice. Hence he will have told the board that he can use the money (not all of it but what was available) to revamp the team and play a different way. What Pardew needed was somebody with input into the alternative player scenario to robustly examine whether Gray was truely the best way to spend the money (and the recovering Cook on loan) when we already had a static "big" centre forward in Iwelumo and what we needed was a play maker in midfield.
Thanks for filling us all in. Good to see the Board acknowledge some of their errors but also hope that a few home truths don't turn this into a slagging match before it gradually fades into obscurity.
for what its worth - i think this is a great idea and it's good that the board and fans can talk so openly about these important issues that we, as fans, currently have.
I think it's easy for the board to sit there in their "ivory towers" and get detached from the fans and the fact that we are running this forum is why we all love this club so much.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]blaming the Zabeel episode for our demise has to be the biggest pile of poo I've heard so far, assuming that is what was meant.
Not the way I read it at all. Just that it had had an unsettling affect.
Thanks Dave, at least some of the questions have been asked, and some insight given.
I still find it strange that the club does not want to have a couple of non executive directors such as Chris Powell and Keith Peacock, or Gavin who could act as advisors.
How having another view is going to dillute the mangers authority is ridiculous, as most managers are dealing with the media and a dozen other issues and can concerntrate on the players he has, forthcoming games etc. Even Curbs admitted this!
As player wages, transfers are the overriding expenditure of a club any constructive help has to be a positive benefit. Perhaps if we had a team approach to the management situations we might have made a better solution than the one at present.
I am unsure about the valuation of the club as the ground and training ground would be hard to sell at present, for what housing!...... at least we own the freehold, hope the directors do not ask for there money back quickly!
I would imagine that 20 players is all that will be required next season, so who's for the chop!
I still find it strange that the club does not want to have a couple of non executive directors such as Chris Powell and Keith Peacock, or Gavin who could act as advisors
If you mean Gavin Peacock? He is living just up the road from me here in Canmore, Alberta & playing indoor football with us on a Wednesday night at the local high school gym.
Oggy Red 18 hours ago quote# 48 [quote][cite]Posted By: ken from bexley[/cite]
I would imagine that 20 players is all that will be required next season, so who's for the chop![/quote]
Most of the players are not yet family men, and too young for a vasectomy. ' What possibly makes you think that some of the players had any ' balls' in the first place......have they not been firing 'blanks' all season, or is this just a barren spell!, or is that they do not give a toss.....
If you mean Gavin Peacock? He is living just up the road from me here in Canmore, Alberta & playing indoor football with us on a Wednesday night at the local high school gym.
He is training to be a priest.
Good guy Gavin, used to live in Bexley Village . Spoke to him when he was at the bbc, when Curbs left about him and his dad taking over as joint managers at Charlton!
Comments
I'm not sure about the idea of a football advisor myself. It sounds like it's a reaction to the scapegoating that has gone on in order to explain away some poor decision making. If bad signings, overpayment, long contracts and high wages were ALL the fault of Dowie or ALL the fault of Pardew then what will the advisor add? Sure he might have advised against them, but to be fair we had dozens of people who've been in the industry for years at the club at the time. If none of them knew that Traore and Faye were rubbish, I'm not sure that another "expert" would add much to the process. To me it'll just be another person to blame when decisions turn out to be wrong and everyone gets into a finger pointing war. It may make the manager feel undermined and it's another mouth to feed.
So thanks Dave for chairing and thanks Richard and his team for listening, lets hope it does the club some good.
Zabeel Investments have got a hell of a lot to answer for.
Agreed. The Board has listened though, whether they feel they need to act on suggestions by the Fans Forum is relative. perhaps. But the Fans Forum also gets the chance to discuss issues firsthand at these meetings and report back to the supporter base.
This 2-way communication between Board and Forum is the key thing - and mustn't be lost.
So thanks to everyone on both sides.
The idea of a fans forum is a good one but to have someone who thinks that this is a good idea representing me and my opinions makes me cringe. I hope it wasnt one shared by too many.
More news later.
blackheathaddick - your view is noted. Not shared by a number of your fellow fans, which is why we made the suggestion, but we take note of your comments. The notes did express some suggestions as to who might fulfil the advisory role. Not me, though ......... but thanks for the recommendation!
On the other hand why do we think that employing one person - The Manager, who makes decisions to spend the clubs meagre resources (or dispose of them as is his want) is the best way to do things just because we've always done things that way.
Clubs have flirted with the idea or Directors of Football, and things come unstuck when the egos of the Managers concerned get ruffled. At West Ham, for example, with Zola as manager, do they not have a Director of Football? I realise Dave is not advocating a Director of Football role but, in effect, a football technician at a board level, does act in both an advisory and directoral role.
My view is that clubs need to think through carefully how much rope they give the Manager, with which to hang, not just himself but also the club, and it's staff who earn their livelihood from his sole choices. The lower divisions are littered with teams who have been broken by the egos of individual managers.
I can't think of many business where the directors rely solely on one persons advice for the signing of key personal to the "team".
Now take Allardyce for example. When at Bolton, I believe he had a team of people around him, including trickcyclists and others who helped him chose the players to sign. Maybe as a Board, they need to establish with the manager robust systems for selecting potential new signings not simply based around seeing a video or watching the player a few times or the advice of the chief scout. That way signing players is less on the whim of one bloke.
I take the point Dave makes about Andy Reid, and it maybe the right point but the wrong circumstances. I am assuming that Dave is talking about the Board wanting to cash in financially but leaving the club short of an altenative player in the role. As I understand it, the decision to sell Reid was based on Pardew's advice. Hence he will have told the board that he can use the money (not all of it but what was available) to revamp the team and play a different way. What Pardew needed was somebody with input into the alternative player scenario to robustly examine whether Gray was truely the best way to spend the money (and the recovering Cook on loan) when we already had a static "big" centre forward in Iwelumo and what we needed was a play maker in midfield.
I hope they were bourbons!
Link still seems to be open
for what its worth - i think this is a great idea and it's good that the board and fans can talk so openly about these important issues that we, as fans, currently have.
I think it's easy for the board to sit there in their "ivory towers" and get detached from the fans and the fact that we are running this forum is why we all love this club so much.
Good work to all concerned
The link to the meeting summary can be found towards the bottom of the homepage.
Apologies for the delay in getting these notes updated.
:)
Not the way I read it at all. Just that it had had an unsettling affect.
Hello everyone from Coach A on Virgin Pendlino!
I still find it strange that the club does not want to have a couple of non executive directors such as Chris Powell and Keith Peacock, or Gavin who could act as advisors.
How having another view is going to dillute the mangers authority is ridiculous, as most managers are dealing with the media and a dozen other issues and can concerntrate on the players he has, forthcoming games etc. Even Curbs admitted this!
As player wages, transfers are the overriding expenditure of a club any constructive help has to be a positive benefit. Perhaps if we had a team approach to the management situations we might have made a better solution than the one at present.
I am unsure about the valuation of the club as the ground and training ground would be hard to sell at present, for what housing!...... at least we own the freehold, hope the directors do not ask for there money back quickly!
I would imagine that 20 players is all that will be required next season, so who's for the chop!
Most of the players are not yet family men, and too young for a vasectomy.
;o)
If you mean Gavin Peacock? He is living just up the road from me here in Canmore, Alberta & playing indoor football with us on a Wednesday night at the local high school gym.
He is training to be a priest.
Yes, I heard that, Oakster. Could you ask him to say a prayer for us?
[quote][cite]Posted By: ken from bexley[/cite]
I would imagine that 20 players is all that will be required next season, so who's for the chop![/quote]
Most of the players are not yet family men, and too young for a vasectomy.
'
What possibly makes you think that some of the players had any ' balls' in the first place......have they not been firing 'blanks' all season, or is this just a barren spell!, or is that they do not give a toss.....
He is training to be a priest.
Good guy Gavin, used to live in Bexley Village . Spoke to him when he was at the bbc, when Curbs left about him and his dad taking over as joint managers at Charlton!
http://www.cafc.co.uk/newsview.ink?nid=33949