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The Centre Half Debacle

edited January 2009 in General Charlton
in numerous other threads many have blamed Pardew for the current situation and in many ways they are right. However, it's not all his fault. Parky has been in charge for over two months and must have realised we were running with only two centre halves. During this time he has signed, loan or permanently, McEverley, Murty, Burton, Spring, Soares, Gillespie. Not a centre-half amongst them. If Pardew is gonna get the blame then Parky has to take his fair share of the flak too. He's had long enough to rectify it before it's reached this ridiculous stage.

Comments

  • fair point
  • Agree. Admittedly we've have bad luck losing both Fortune & Hudson in the same week, but it was asking for trouble (a bit like the scarf) to have no back up.
  • Maybe he has been looking but nobody has been available within the constraints he is working in at the moment.

    I'm sure if he took Darren Powell and/or Purse on loan or bought then people would be in outcry that they would prefer Holland/Thomas/Mambo in the team.

    Unfortunately, Powell and Purse are the level we are looking at, at the moment.

    It is crazy though.
  • Trouble is, if you sign on loan an established player in a position like centre-half, you have to play him.
    He won't sign and play in the reserves.
  • edited January 2009
    I think Parky recognises that it was an accdent waiting to happen. In an interview this week he admits that we have been running a "big risk" all season with just two permanent centre backs.

    He's obviously been trying to rectifty it by chasing Wayne Brown over the last 3-4 weeks.But it is certainly fair to ask why a CB was not his number one priority when he has brought in the six other signings Large mentions...clearly there are CBs out there and available, with Iriekpen apparently going to Bristol City. And it seems we could have had first call on Brown if we had come up with the asking fee.

    We were told we haven't got the money - although what that actually means is that having told us at the AGM that they have put in £45m over the last ten years, the board are now not prepared to put in any more.

    Fair enough. It's their money. But on the other hand, when Parky was appointed four weeks ago, didn't they tell us they had decided to spend all available money on players rather than management structure?

    The truth, quite possibly, was always that there could only be serious movement in if there was movement out - and we now know we have not had a single bid for a single player. Thus no money available for Brown, and we end up, as Parky says, without a single fit centre back for tomorrow's game.
  • To be fair lets think about this a bit, we all realised we were short of a CH but we had Forts,Cranie,Hudson,Primus and they must have thought about Sir Matty in that role, We lose Cranie who spent most of his time at full back but IMO was able to play anywhere along the back 4, we lose Primus, so we are down to bones, Forts,Hudson,Holland.

    We are bottom of the league and adrift, now find a CH who wants to come who is any good and we can afford him.

    These things happen i am sure we will try to rectify it but getting players to come to us is going to be hard there is no point getting a shit one when you could play holland,basey in that position if the worst comes to it Mambo can move in there who would be no worse than some pony one from the lower leagues.

    I am sure they are not just thinking feckit we will be ok
  • It might actually be a blessing in disguise, we have after all conceded 51 goals this season and up until now I've wondered how on earth Hudson has kept the captains armband. In the Short term we need to get another CB but as for the rest of the season questions have to be asked regarding the competency of our existing back two. I've never been a fan of Fortune and I think we need our captain to be mid-fielder.
  • As I and others have said on here how can you start the season with 15 or 16 players (they are all listed on the Murty thread for anyone who's interested) who can play in midfield and only 2 recognised CBs. We've had so many of them that Sinclair has spent the whole season on loan - if he wasn't considered good enough to be part of the squad why have't we offloaded him and used that money towards getting a PERMANENT CB in?

    When Primus came to us he wasn't even fit and it was clear from the battle that ensued with Pompey that Redknapp didn't want us to have 'til January. Can you imagine Curbs talking about us being promotion contenders (as Pards did - "I would consider it a failure if we weren't in contention this season.....") and going into the season with just 2 CBs? And no I don't want Curbs back for those tha think I do in making that comment.

    Little wonder we have the worst defence in the League. That's clearly not because we play such expansive and exciting football with our rigid 4-5-1 system is it? No more than a goal scored in any of our last 7 games is evidence of that. What was our best performance of the season? Against Reading, of course, who will be the Champions. Did we try and grind out a 1-0? Did we heck and whilst 4-5-1 MIGHT work once in a blue moon against the likes of Doncaster, Norwich and Palarse it won't against the majority of sides in the League because we aren't good enough to defend set pieces. And if you play 4-5-1 you end up constantly defending the 18 yard box and with the inevitable pressure associated with that comes free kicks and corners.

    So we seem to have got it rather wrong at both ends of the pitch. And as Parky was part of the Pards regime AND refuses to change our "modus operandi" he is, at the very least, partially to blame.
  • [cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]As I and others have said on here how can you start the season with 15 or 16 players (they are all listed on the Murty thread for anyone who's interested) who can play in midfield and only 2 recognised CBs. We've had so many of them that Sinclair has spent the whole season on loan - if he wasn't considered good enough to be part of the squad why have't we offloaded him and used that money towards getting a PERMANENT CB in?

    because when you are probably on 4k pw and clubs such as Cheltenham and Grimsby would pay you less than half that you'd be silly to leave wouldn't you. You'd see out your contract earning as much as you could in the progress. This applies to a number of others I'd guess too.
  • VFR I respect what you say about Holland. However, someone who's never played a competitive game in that position can only be considered and emergency centre back. It may well transpire that he turns out to be capable of doing a job there but you simply can't go into a season thinking that Holland, Youga and Semedo can come in when that's not their natural position. Possibly in April/May when the season's over but surely not in August?
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  • [cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]As I and others have said on here how can you start the season with 15 or 16 players (they are all listed on the Murty thread for anyone who's interested) who can play in midfield and only 2 recognised CBs.We've had so many of them that Sinclair has spent the whole season on loan - if he wasn't considered good enough to be part of the squad why have't we offloaded him and used that money towards getting a PERMANENT CB in?

    because when you are probably on 4k pw and clubs such as Cheltenham and Grimsby would pay you less than half that you'd be silly to leave wouldn't you. You'd see out your contract earning as much as you could in the progress. This applies to a number of others I'd guess too.

    So Large you're saying that Sinclair is a White Elephant a la Christensen (another midfielder never to have kicked a ball in anger for us). Pards was an even bigger joke than I gave him credit for because he cetainly didn't recruit any CBs that we've had to send out on loan.
  • edited January 2009
    * Addick Addict
    * CommentTime11 minutes ago

    quote# 11
    VFR I respect what you say about Holland. However, someone who's never played a competitive game in that position can only be considered and emergency centre back. It may well transpire that he turns out to be capable of doing a job there but you simply can't go into a season thinking that Holland, Youga and Semedo can come in when that's not their natural position. Possibly in April/May when the season's over but surely not in August?
    That's true. Our lack of cover at the back reminds of the time we lost Andy Reid to Sunderland leaving a fairly obvious gap, obvious for all except it seemed but not the club or management. Nothing was done to fill that gap and as you say nothing was done to provide the cover we so obviously needed. To lose one centreback would have made things difficult but two at the same time.. well.

    I remember Youga playing at Centreback (was it away against Watford? I think it was when he got sent off) with Grant Basey on the left and I held my breath in sheer panic every time he got anywhere near the ball. I hope Parky doesn't consider this an option.
  • To be fair, VFR, the idea was that Cook was a fit for the large Reid sized hole in our midfield. He was just shit. The failure to get a centre back in is just that - a massive fail
  • And having only two CBs not only doesn't take into account injury and suspension but makes the massive assumption that there's going to be no loss of form from two w do have. And how many times do we think that one or other should have been "rested" but we simply couldn't 'cos we had no one available to fill their shoes?
  • Christensen mentioned again - which reminds me that I was going to keep a weekly running tally of what we've paid him since Mick Collins exposed the story four weeks ago.

    Well, it's now up to £20k...

    Does he still turn up at training every day etc? Because presumably the atmosphere must be terrible, as Parky said they've made an offer to buy out his contract but he just sits tight and refuses to budge (well, wouldn't you?)

    Serious question - does he still participate in squad training? I'd have thought under the circs. his very presence would be a distraction and potentially disruptive, and I'd be inclined to send him on permanent gardening leave. Or nightclub leave, which is probably the footballing equivalent...
  • have we got any decent CB's in the ressies or youth
  • Sinclair
    Christensen
    Ambrose
    Gray
    Toddy
    ZZ

    All of these have one thing in common imho.

    Weekly outlay for that lot? 50K plus?
  • ''have we got any decent CB's in the ressies or youth ''

    Parky said yesterday no, nobody anywhere near ready to step up.

    I would like to know how we missed out on Wayne Brown, given the story now running on the wires. It turns out that nobody has come up with Hull's 450k asking price - so he has gone to Leicester ON LOAN (with a view to a permanent deal next season).

    I thought we effectively had first refusal on him and would have understood if we missed out because Leicester had offered serious money for him. But as he's only gone on loan, I do not quite get it...
  • [cite]Posted By: Ledge[/cite]have we got any decent CB's in the ressies or youth

    Mambo is Primusesque in stature. Good enough yet? Debatable. Only game I've seen him is in the Spuds Youth game and whilst he was commanding, their CF definitely had the legs on him. The fact that Matty Holland is preferred leads me to believe the management think the same. But then again they think Dickson's not good enough.............
  • To be fair we had Cranie until the end of the December, Primus a few weeks before then.

    And we know he's been trying to get Wayne Brown in for 2 or 3 weeks.

    So he has been working on it. At least it's sorted out now and we have Ward, and it's for the rest of the season, not a month.
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  • [cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]As I and others have said on here how can you start the season with 15 or 16 players (they are all listed on the Murty thread for anyone who's interested) who can play in midfield and only 2 recognised CBs.We've had so many of them that Sinclair has spent the whole season on loan - if he wasn't considered good enough to be part of the squad why have't we offloaded him and used that money towards getting a PERMANENT CB in?

    because when you are probably on 4k pw and clubs such as Cheltenham and Grimsby would pay you less than half that you'd be silly to leave wouldn't you. You'd see out your contract earning as much as you could in the progress. This applies to a number of others I'd guess too.

    So Large you're saying that Sinclair is a White Elephant a la Christensen (another midfielder never to have kicked a ball in anger for us). Pards was an even bigger joke than I gave him credit for because he cetainly didn't recruit any CBs that we've had to send out on loan.

    Do you know how much the players get paid then Large? I didn't realise you were privvy to that information.

    the truth is, none of us know how much they get paid, from us, or their loan club, and we shouldn't be casting aspersions about it on a message board to be picked up by another poster as a fact.
  • [cite]Posted By: nigel w[/cite]''have we got any decent CB's in the ressies or youth ''

    Parky said yesterday no, nobody anywhere near ready to step up.

    I would like to know how we missed out on Wayne Brown, given the story now running on the wires. It turns out that nobody has come up with Hull's 450k asking price - so he has gone to Leicester ON LOAN (with a view to a permanent deal next season).

    I thought we effectively had first refusal on him and would have understood if we missed out because Leicester had offered serious money for him. But as he's only gone on loan, I do not quite get it...

    perhaps it's the offer of a perm deal that swayed it, something maybe we couldn't offer
  • [cite]Posted By: suzisausage[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]As I and others have said on here how can you start the season with 15 or 16 players (they are all listed on the Murty thread for anyone who's interested) who can play in midfield and only 2 recognised CBs.We've had so many of them that Sinclair has spent the whole season on loan - if he wasn't considered good enough to be part of the squad why have't we offloaded him and used that money towards getting a PERMANENT CB in?

    because when you are probably on 4k pw and clubs such as Cheltenham and Grimsby would pay you less than half that you'd be silly to leave wouldn't you. You'd see out your contract earning as much as you could in the progress. This applies to a number of others I'd guess too.

    So Large you're saying that Sinclair is a White Elephant a la Christensen (another midfielder never to have kicked a ball in anger for us). Pards was an even bigger joke than I gave him credit for because he cetainly didn't recruit any CBs that we've had to send out on loan.

    Do you know how much the players get paid then Large? I didn't realise you were privvy to that information.

    the truth is, none of us know how much they get paid, from us, or their loan club, and we shouldn't be casting aspersions about it on a message board to be picked up by another poster as a fact.

    on you high horse again Suzi. I said 'probably' and based on Christiansen's 5k pw then why not ? Even if it's 3k or 2.5k it's still more than he'll get elsewhere so the point still applies. Please note my use of 'probably' which means I am not saying it's a fact. If people want to read it and believe it then that is their problem. I've read on here that Hudson's on 12k pw but that doesn't mean I believe it.
  • [cite]Hull boss Phil Brown said:[/cite] "We have put a price tag on Wayne Brown and Charlton, as yet, haven't come up to that valuation.
    presumably Leicester have paid a loan fee to Hull
  • [cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: suzisausage[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]As I and others have said on here how can you start the season with 15 or 16 players (they are all listed on the Murty thread for anyone who's interested) who can play in midfield and only 2 recognised CBs.We've had so many of them that Sinclair has spent the whole season on loan - if he wasn't considered good enough to be part of the squad why have't we offloaded him and used that money towards getting a PERMANENT CB in?

    because when you are probably on 4k pw and clubs such as Cheltenham and Grimsby would pay you less than half that you'd be silly to leave wouldn't you. You'd see out your contract earning as much as you could in the progress. This applies to a number of others I'd guess too.

    So Large you're saying that Sinclair is a White Elephant a la Christensen (another midfielder never to have kicked a ball in anger for us). Pards was an even bigger joke than I gave him credit for because he cetainly didn't recruit any CBs that we've had to send out on loan.

    Do you know how much the players get paid then Large? I didn't realise you were privvy to that information.

    the truth is, none of us know how much they get paid, from us, or their loan club, and we shouldn't be casting aspersions about it on a message board to be picked up by another poster as a fact.

    on you high horse again Suzi. I said 'probably' and based on Christiansen's 5k pw then why not ? Even if it's 3k or 2.5k it's still more than he'll get elsewhere so the point still applies. Please note my use of 'probably' which means I am not saying it's a fact. If people want to read it and believe it then that is their problem. I've read on here that Hudson's on 12k pw but that doesn't mean I believe it.

    high horse? not at all. just offering an alternative view to your own. sorry you don't appreciate it. I guess you are probably wrong. make of that what you will.

    I was just pointing out that we can't cast aspersions on people (pardew/parky/the club) if we are guessing something, and then incinuating something else because of it. I was more questioning Addick Addict for taking your guess about the wages as a fact.
  • [cite]Posted By: suzisausage[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: suzisausage[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]As I and others have said on here how can you start the season with 15 or 16 players (they are all listed on the Murty thread for anyone who's interested) who can play in midfield and only 2 recognised CBs.We've had so many of them that Sinclair has spent the whole season on loan - if he wasn't considered good enough to be part of the squad why have't we offloaded him and used that money towards getting a PERMANENT CB in?

    because when you are probably on 4k pw and clubs such as Cheltenham and Grimsby would pay you less than half that you'd be silly to leave wouldn't you. You'd see out your contract earning as much as you could in the progress. This applies to a number of others I'd guess too.

    So Large you're saying that Sinclair is a White Elephant a la Christensen (another midfielder never to have kicked a ball in anger for us). Pards was an even bigger joke than I gave him credit for because he cetainly didn't recruit any CBs that we've had to send out on loan.

    Do you know how much the players get paid then Large? I didn't realise you were privvy to that information.

    the truth is, none of us know how much they get paid, from us, or their loan club, and we shouldn't be casting aspersions about it on a message board to be picked up by another poster as a fact.

    on you high horse again Suzi. I said 'probably' and based on Christiansen's 5k pw then why not ? Even if it's 3k or 2.5k it's still more than he'll get elsewhere so the point still applies. Please note my use of 'probably' which means I am not saying it's a fact. If people want to read it and believe it then that is their problem. I've read on here that Hudson's on 12k pw but that doesn't mean I believe it.

    high horse? not at all. just offering an alternative view to your own. sorry you don't appreciate it. I guess you are probably wrong. make of that what you will.

    I was just pointing out that we can't cast aspersions on people (pardew/parky/the club) if we are guessing something, and then incinuating something else because of it. I was more questioning Addick Addict for taking your guess about the wages as a fact.

    Suzi, apologies for the 'high horse' comment, it just seems that everytime you are defending the Club whatever the issue being debated. Wages of players is always something that is going to be discussed irrespective of the fact that none of us know what they are earning. Christainsen's 5k is taken as being correct as Mick Collins quoted it, asked RM to comment, but he wouldn't but confirmed the story as factually correct.
  • edited January 2009
    It is easy sitting where we sit to suggest that nobody saw this coming or why have we missed out on players. I have no doubt that the club were aware of the lack of CB cover and have been attempting to resolve it. I think Parky has been trying his best but you can't force players to come especially when money is tight.

    To a large extent I blame Pardew because with all the money he had available, the squad has been very unbalanced with strikers who couldn't score, or he wouldn't play, a plethora of midfielders, full backs that he wouldn't play and loanees like Crainie who were supposedly there for the season but have gone back, either because they weren't good enough or not getting enough games.

    What I don't understand, and I don't get to go to the reserve games, is why we don't have anybody young who could step up? I remember Curbs playing Konchesky when he was 16 because we had a crisis at LB, surely we don't put out reserve teams without centre backs so why not draft them in?
  • no worries. I guess because i may or may not know that things on here are crap, but also cos I have an opinon myself which may be helped by my job. I'm not a spokesperson for the club by any means, but I do try to sometimes guide people towards the truth, because things do get out of hand otherwise. I agree wages will be discussed, and some of the numbers that people guess at here are ludicrous.

    I don't know the details with christensen, and only skim read the story, and I know that it was part of the herfolge boldklub agreement, which is coming to a financial end as soon as possible. no idea about how good/bad he is, or what wages he is on, but yeah, it was probably one of those bad gambles that was taken and didn't work out. fingers crossed the cyriac thing comes off.
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