He does keep opposing defenders busy and puts them under pressure.
Agreed, a few goals would be a welcome part of his game - but he's Burton not Ronaldo, what did we expect from a free transfer who doesn't get support or barely any kind of service .... ?
[cite]Posted By: golfaddick[/cite]what is the point of a striker if they can't score goals FULL STOP.
forget about "holding the ball up" or "link up play" - their job is to score goals - end of.
you don't play a goalkeeper who cant catch the ball or make a save because he can kick it straight or can throw he ball out well, do you.
otherwise you might just as well play one of us in their place.
We don't exactly have many other options do we? It's like saying what's the point in playing Lloyd Sam, he can't cross. You wouldn't say Di Canio or even Bartlett were useless for us because they didn't score goals regularly would you?
He's played better than Gray, apart from scoring goals, and Todorov hasn't got the fitness. I don't like Gray and Burton together, but Dickson and Burton could work well.
Look at England, there's a reason why Heskey has been involved again. It's definitely not for his goals. The basic thing you expect from a striker is goals, but it's about a lot more than that, things like getting a good partnership working well together.
[cite]Posted By: Imissthepeanutman[/cite]Surprised nobody has mentioned that non commited loanee Murty.
That guy was in absolute agony for 20 mins and did a job because Fortune had already gone off.
If it was Steve Brown you would still be singing his name.
Can I stick my hand up ....... I mentioned him on the "Post match comments" thread soon after the match finished:
"And also for the loan player out there who got clobbered, carried on with gritted teeth and a never say die attitude - and gave 100% for 95 minutes."
[cite]Posted By: golfaddick[/cite]what is the point of a striker if they can't score goals FULL STOP.
forget about "holding the ball up" or "link up play" - their job is to score goals - end of.
you don't play a goalkeeper who cant catch the ball or make a save because he can kick it straight or can throw he ball out well, do you.
otherwise you might just as well play one of us in their place.
Sorry Golfie but Centre Forwards are NOT just about scoring goals.I know that sounds silly but in the modern game it is true. Holding the ball up and "link up play" as you call it (a modern one from pundits on MOTD etc) is very, very important.
What is needed is having the right players to accomadate an Andy Gray, Burton or Leroy Lita.
Look at Emile Heskey, another big transfer for him, he doesn't score a lot of goals(ok he did get one tonight) but it's the goals he makes for others, not from crosses or wonder passes but from knock downs and holding the ball up and laying it off.
Like it or not, the 1 up front system is here to stay in English football for sometime. Ok not every match but the majority. So you need your lone CF to be able to win, hold and lay off the ball. We do not seem to have the right personel to benifit from our forward players.
It is so easy to sit in the stand and criticise players and systems, but unless you have actually played football (no, not necessarly Pro) sometimes it is not easy to appriciate what is actually going on, or in our case supposed to be!
[cite]Posted By: golfaddick[/cite]what is the point of a striker if they can't score goals FULL STOP.
forget about "holding the ball up" or "link up play" - their job is to score goals - end of.
you don't play a goalkeeper who cant catch the ball or make a save because he can kick it straight or can throw he ball out well, do you.
otherwise you might just as well play one of us in their place.
Sorry Golfie but Centre Forwards are NOT just about scoring goals.I know that sounds silly but in the modern game it is true. Holding the ball up and "link up play" as you call it (a modern one from pundits on MOTD etc) is very, very important.
What is needed is having the right players to accomadate an Andy Gray, Burton or Leroy Lita.
Look at Emile Heskey, another big transfer for him, he doesn't score a lot of goals(ok he did get one tonight) but it's the goals he makes for others, not from crosses or wonder passes but from knock downs and holding the ball up and laying it off.
Like it or not, the 1 up front system is here to stay in English football for sometime. Ok not every match but the majority. So you need your lone CF to be able to win, hold and lay off the ball. We do not seem to have the right personel to benifit from our forward players.
It is so easy to sit in the stand and criticise players and systems, but unless you have actually played football (no, not necessarly Pro) sometimes it is not easy to appriciate what is actually going on, or in our case supposed to be!
Agreed, your centre-forward needs to be able to WIN the ball and then HOLD it up while his team-mates break from defence and then PASS it on to a well-placed team-mate and then move upfield to make himself available again.
All-time great at this was Mark Hughes who was only (only) scored about 1 goal every three games but led the line superbly well and just relieved so much pressure on his team-mates.
There is a lot more to centre-forward play than scoring goals - although that does help of course - but give me a Mark Hughes over an Ian Wright any day of the week.
I have just got back to Carrot Land after a wee stop off to sign up a customer (signed at 0.05am in Sidcup) Now thats what I call mixing business with pleasure (and he's a Millwall fan with a soft spot for the Addicks).
Well a WIN. YES!! Not the prettiest, not the best of performances, much improvement still needed but boy was it sweet!
I thought Burton held the line well, and to be fair to him, he was given some pretty rubbish service at times. Dickson, for me, should now be given a start. He showed enough to see that he's a bit of a live wire. (I don't really care if the bench were shouting at him, thats their job).
I'd single out three players for highest praise. Hudson, who was immense (especially after Forts who played well got injured). Soares who looked more up for it and tricky, and Bailey who through everything including the kitchen sink at times at the game.
Others worthy of a mention. Murty who showed what a good professional he is. When he made mistakes he managed to get himself out of them. Youga who managed to avoid the silly stuff, Elliot who was assured throughout and Spring who put in a decent shift and scored the goal. Also Holland when he came on did a good job.
Players in the could do better category. Sam - a couple of decent crosses but to often played to narrow and didn't offer an effective outlet when we were clearing. Gray - too little in air and very little threat. Basey, did hold onto the ball when in posession enough.
I felt that the better football was played by Palace except in the last third of the game when they just played it long and high. I felt that we battled and none of our players hid and we definitely wanted it tonight.
May main criticism is the inablity to hold the ball and string passes together. Defensively we lined up with two banks of four but those banks played to close together, especially in the second half and there was very little link up play, hence the "out" ball was a long hopeful punt up field often for the tireless Burton to chase. We have to work on link up play big time otherwise against a team with a better cutting edge than Palace, one goal will definitely not be enough.
Golfie said " Burton MOTM ".........nooooooooooooooooo.
the guys useless Boh him & Gray have had 20 games between them since the start of Dcember and have scored precisely 1 goal each - Burton's from the penalty spot! in that time Dickson has scored once in next to no time and Spring twice in 3 games.
Dickson and an other up front for me.
as for MOTM................Spring, Bailey & Hudson can share it. All woked their socks off & neve hid. Soares als mentioned in dispatches.
MOTM is about that match not the last 20 games.
So what he has done before or how many goals he's scored is irrelevant when describing how he played in that one game.
last night he played well, lead the line, had little support but had one good shot (set up by Dickson's flick), held the ball up well when he could, closed down constantly, did a lovely little trick to find space before spraying a long pass out to Basey to put him 1 on 1 v the FB and was it Burton who played the little reverse pass in the corner to put Sam clear in the box only for Lloyd to try and pass rather than shoot.
When Dickson came on he went deeper and was helping to defend and hold the ball as the defence came out on more than one occasion.
Hudson or Spring for me as MOM but what about Holland, I thought he was superb for the 30 minutes or so he was on the pitch. Anyway does it matter, a win is a win is a win is a........................
[cite]Posted By: Brunello[/cite]Hudson or Spring for me as MOM but what about Holland, I thought he was superb for the 30 minutes or so he was on the pitch. Anyway does it matter, a win is a win is a win is a........................
Holland was indeed excellent. I feared he would get done in the air with their big lumps and hoof ball but no, he kept winning it and when it was on the ground he cleared up. Chris Perry MkII
sorry i must watch a different game because our front two can't hold the ball up,the second half we didn't hold the ball up at all.Great result but imho i can't see us getting out of the hole we are in as I don't think we will score enough goals with them two up front.Our only hope is to give Dickson a go,i know he is raw and Kins gave him a bollocking for not chasing back at one point,but he offers so much more than tweddle di and tweddle dum
I thought DB had a decent game but how many times did he let himself get caught offside? Was really winding me up. One thing is for sure though. Gray and Burton together did not work at all.
it's a funny old game. Henners thought Bailey was poor but I and most others thought he was outstanding. Henners thought Burton was outstanding but I, and a couple of others, thought he was poor and offered nothing. That is what is great about football. We all have an opinion and we are all right.
I think that is spot on Blackheath, Burton and Gray doesnt work Deon did alright last night worked tirelessly and as soon as Dicko was on we had a pairing who look like they can play together.
2 in 3 for Spring now. Scores goals. Didn't cost much, will probably be here next season no matter the division, could be a nice bit of business by Parkinson.
However well Burton played last night the raw facts are that his goalscoring record of one in open play from 30 matches this season makes Carl Leaburn's rank alongside Messrs Greaves, Lineker and Owen.
In addition, as a team we struggle to average a goal a game and will always be likely to let in goals from set pieces. It is, therefore, even more imperative that we do not give the initiative to the opposition by playing 4-5-1 and that we pair our only striker with pace and the unexpected (Dickson for those who haven't guessed) alongside Burton in a 4-4-2.
It seems most of us agree that Burton and Gray together doesn't work ,and i thought Parky said he bought Burton as cover for Gray. On current form, Burton is the better player, but he needs someone with pace to play off him. We only have one striker with pace. Burton and Dickson up front on Saturday Parky. I know he's a bit raw, but he's hardly played at this level. Give the kid a chance. Who knows what he could do in ninety minutes ?
MOTM - Hudson and Bailey
Jon Fortune should get some reward for trying to run off a ruptured achilles - the man is a legend.
For what it's worth I thought Burton was sh!te, but fair play to him giving his shirt to a kid in the NW Quadrant at the end. Glad to hear Gray get cheered off when subbed last night, and Pardkinson must now give Dickson his chance.
Comments
Agreed, a few goals would be a welcome part of his game - but he's Burton not Ronaldo, what did we expect from a free transfer who doesn't get support or barely any kind of service .... ?
That guy was in absolute agony for 20 mins and did a job because Fortune had already gone off.
If it was Steve Brown you would still be singing his name.
We don't exactly have many other options do we? It's like saying what's the point in playing Lloyd Sam, he can't cross. You wouldn't say Di Canio or even Bartlett were useless for us because they didn't score goals regularly would you?
He's played better than Gray, apart from scoring goals, and Todorov hasn't got the fitness. I don't like Gray and Burton together, but Dickson and Burton could work well.
Look at England, there's a reason why Heskey has been involved again. It's definitely not for his goals. The basic thing you expect from a striker is goals, but it's about a lot more than that, things like getting a good partnership working well together.
agreed
Can I stick my hand up ....... I mentioned him on the "Post match comments" thread soon after the match finished:
"And also for the loan player out there who got clobbered, carried on with gritted teeth and a never say die attitude - and gave 100% for 95 minutes."
;o)
Sorry Golfie but Centre Forwards are NOT just about scoring goals.I know that sounds silly but in the modern game it is true. Holding the ball up and "link up play" as you call it (a modern one from pundits on MOTD etc) is very, very important.
What is needed is having the right players to accomadate an Andy Gray, Burton or Leroy Lita.
Look at Emile Heskey, another big transfer for him, he doesn't score a lot of goals(ok he did get one tonight) but it's the goals he makes for others, not from crosses or wonder passes but from knock downs and holding the ball up and laying it off.
Like it or not, the 1 up front system is here to stay in English football for sometime. Ok not every match but the majority. So you need your lone CF to be able to win, hold and lay off the ball. We do not seem to have the right personel to benifit from our forward players.
It is so easy to sit in the stand and criticise players and systems, but unless you have actually played football (no, not necessarly Pro) sometimes it is not easy to appriciate what is actually going on, or in our case supposed to be!
Agreed, your centre-forward needs to be able to WIN the ball and then HOLD it up while his team-mates break from defence and then PASS it on to a well-placed team-mate and then move upfield to make himself available again.
All-time great at this was Mark Hughes who was only (only) scored about 1 goal every three games but led the line superbly well and just relieved so much pressure on his team-mates.
There is a lot more to centre-forward play than scoring goals - although that does help of course - but give me a Mark Hughes over an Ian Wright any day of the week.
Well a WIN. YES!! Not the prettiest, not the best of performances, much improvement still needed but boy was it sweet!
I thought Burton held the line well, and to be fair to him, he was given some pretty rubbish service at times. Dickson, for me, should now be given a start. He showed enough to see that he's a bit of a live wire. (I don't really care if the bench were shouting at him, thats their job).
I'd single out three players for highest praise. Hudson, who was immense (especially after Forts who played well got injured). Soares who looked more up for it and tricky, and Bailey who through everything including the kitchen sink at times at the game.
Others worthy of a mention. Murty who showed what a good professional he is. When he made mistakes he managed to get himself out of them. Youga who managed to avoid the silly stuff, Elliot who was assured throughout and Spring who put in a decent shift and scored the goal. Also Holland when he came on did a good job.
Players in the could do better category. Sam - a couple of decent crosses but to often played to narrow and didn't offer an effective outlet when we were clearing. Gray - too little in air and very little threat. Basey, did hold onto the ball when in posession enough.
I felt that the better football was played by Palace except in the last third of the game when they just played it long and high. I felt that we battled and none of our players hid and we definitely wanted it tonight.
May main criticism is the inablity to hold the ball and string passes together. Defensively we lined up with two banks of four but those banks played to close together, especially in the second half and there was very little link up play, hence the "out" ball was a long hopeful punt up field often for the tireless Burton to chase. We have to work on link up play big time otherwise against a team with a better cutting edge than Palace, one goal will definitely not be enough.
Still a wins a win. Onwards and upwards!!
the guys useless Boh him & Gray have had 20 games between them since the start of Dcember and have scored precisely 1 goal each - Burton's from the penalty spot! in that time Dickson has scored once in next to no time and Spring twice in 3 games.
Dickson and an other up front for me.
as for MOTM................Spring, Bailey & Hudson can share it. All woked their socks off & neve hid. Soares als mentioned in dispatches.
MOTM is about that match not the last 20 games.
So what he has done before or how many goals he's scored is irrelevant when describing how he played in that one game.
last night he played well, lead the line, had little support but had one good shot (set up by Dickson's flick), held the ball up well when he could, closed down constantly, did a lovely little trick to find space before spraying a long pass out to Basey to put him 1 on 1 v the FB and was it Burton who played the little reverse pass in the corner to put Sam clear in the box only for Lloyd to try and pass rather than shoot.
When Dickson came on he went deeper and was helping to defend and hold the ball as the defence came out on more than one occasion.
He had a good game.. End of.
Holland was indeed excellent. I feared he would get done in the air with their big lumps and hoof ball but no, he kept winning it and when it was on the ground he cleared up. Chris Perry MkII
Bailey was MOM
Still have to say that we are very poor on the full back front.
Big question is does he play grey this saturday against his old club or go Dickson?
In addition, as a team we struggle to average a goal a game and will always be likely to let in goals from set pieces. It is, therefore, even more imperative that we do not give the initiative to the opposition by playing 4-5-1 and that we pair our only striker with pace and the unexpected (Dickson for those who haven't guessed) alongside Burton in a 4-4-2.
What does he have to do to get a start?
Jon Fortune should get some reward for trying to run off a ruptured achilles - the man is a legend.
For what it's worth I thought Burton was sh!te, but fair play to him giving his shirt to a kid in the NW Quadrant at the end. Glad to hear Gray get cheered off when subbed last night, and Pardkinson must now give Dickson his chance.