The tail end of last season is the worst Charlton side that I have seen for many a year. This one is actually slightly better IMHO but still no where near good enough to stay up.
how many times did we have that millwall mug telling us that our end of season form was relegation material and that again he would be putting money on the sure thing of us going down and then to have curbs have us finish comfortably in mid-table by february.
[cite]Posted By: CharltonDan[/cite]Playing devils advocate..........But haven't we always finished poorly? When was the last time we had a storming end to a season?
Even when we won Div 1 we did so with a whimper....
The fact that that has never been addressed tells it's own story.
I think most Charlton fans who have watched the side regularly would agree. The decline really started when Parker left, followed by Jensen and di Canio in the summer afterwards.
Last season we got off to a flier but I guess a league table from Nov onwards would have had us bottom or if not then in the bottom three.
Curbs knew it was all falling apart and personally I think he wanted to get out with his reputation intact.
It is true that we were at our strongest when Parker, Jensen and Di Canio were at the club. I would add Graham Stuart who, as a hardworking goalscoring midfielder, never got the credit he deserved in my opinion.
We still came 11th and 13th(or was it 14th) since they left.
This season would have been more of a struggle but I'm certain we would have drawn some of the games we've lost under Curbs.
This season would have been more of a struggle but I'm certain we would have drawn some of the games we've lost under Curbs.
I'm sorry Len, i just think you're being too blinkered in your praise for Curbs. As i've said, no one is disputing how great he was, you won't find a bigger fan than me.
but it was his side that always packed in in March,
It was his side that could never win a cup game
it was his side that completely lost their way last season,
it was his side that posted the most dire relegation form in the six months of last season
it was his side that hasn't had a leader for the past two years
Losing Parker was a massive, massive blow. But he was given £10m plus to spend to soften the blow, and continued to be backed financially by the board right up to Marcus Bent.
It wasn't losing Parker that was necessarily the problem, it was also the fact we spent the proceeds and rebuilt so badly.
Agree entirely AFKA - I was fearful for whoever came in after Curbs not just because of him being such a hard act to follow but because he was leaving behind the poorest, most dispaasionate and ill balanced squad we've seen at The Valley in many years.
The rebuilding job to be done at the end of last season was huge and Curbs knew it. The whole spine of the team was (and pretty much still is) substandard, requiring at least 1 goalkeeper, 2 central defenders, 2 central midfielders and a striker.
I'm not digging at Curbs, his achievements speak for themselves but he's a very canny man and I'm convinced that though we may have been a couple of points better off under Curbs at this stage we'd be struggling in much the same way and turning in the kind of performances that we did on Saturday, as we did for the vast majority of last season (and large chunks of the previous two). Curbs will always be a legend but not even he could have gotten us out of this mess that he played a large part in getting us into.
Maybe it is the natural order of things and he couldn't work the miracles he had been any more, I'm not blaming Curbs but think the timing of his departure was very smart on his part.
Jerome Thomas, Danny Murphy, Francis Jeffers, Bryan Hughes (on a Bosman), Dennis Rommedahl, Chris Powell, Alexei Smertin (on loan), Darren Bent, Darren Ambrose, Marcus Bent.
I don't think I've missed anybody! The above are the players brought in by Curbs since Parker left.
Thomas -at £100K we've had our moneys worth even if he never kicks another ball for us.
Murphy- Plenty of people on "the other board" were metaphorically getting their knobs out about what a wonderful signing Murphy was. When he came he quickly demonstrated an inability to play in a 4-4-2 so we went 4-5-1 to accommodate him which worked well for a time until the egotistic bald headed twat decided that Charlton was too small a club for him and dropped us right in it by going to Spurs at 10 to midnight on 31st January. Yet rather than correctly blame Murphy we get snide comments about Curbishley's inability to manage big players from the usual suspects. You can do no more to accommodate a player than change your formation for goodness sake!
Francis Jeffers - calculated gamble since very cheap for a striker in Premiership terms. Unlucky in that he couldn't play in the 4-5-1 we had to adopt to accommodate the bald headed scouse twat also lacked the self discipline needed of a Premiership professional footballer.
Bryan Hughes - On paper a tailor made replacement for Graham Stuart having a proven record as a goalscoring midfielder. Therefore definitely worth the gamble on a Bosman. Has proved a reasonable squad player and good in cup matches.
Dennis Rommedahl - Another flair player we were all excited about. Has flattered to deceive but, on paper, just the type of player to take us to the mystical "next level." The 4-5-1 decision was made with him in mind as well as Murphy since he rapidly demonstrated how lightweight he is.
Chris Powell - I don't think anyone will argue that he was excellent last season.
Alexei Smertin - Everybody said we'd finally soved our midfield problems when Murphy, Smertin and KISH played together in a 4-5-1. For whatever reason he got homesick and went. Always a risk with a foreign player. He was a good signing though for as long as he lasted.
Darren Bent - Under Curbs our first striker to score 20 goals in a season at the top level in 50 years. Pretty crap purchase for £2.5 million really. I give you that Curbs got it wrong:-)
Darren Ambrose - May well have been brought in partly to help Darren Bent settle but certainly showed promise under Curbs at times. Has lost his way this season though but then there has been a (two!)change (s) of management!
Marcus Bent - Ok maybe he got that one wrong, seriously this time! On paper though a decent replacement for Bartlett as a target man and at £2.5 million not expensive in Premiership terms but, yes, pricy in Charlton terms. He arrived injured which leads me once more to ask questions of our medical department.
What I'm trying to say is that Curbs did not do a bad job with his buying subsequent to Parker. Murphy and Smertin left in January 2006 Curbishley left in May 2006 so how our lack of a midfield can be laid at his door puzzles me! Maybe I'm blinkered though:-)
There you go Len, i think that also proves my point.
Ten signings there, you can also add Gibbs and Sorondo as they were Curbs signings, so that's 12.
You compare that twelve with the previous 12 he brought into the club, or the 12 before that. (Of the previous 12, i would expect at least 7 to have been good signings).
From the above list only Darren Bent and Thomas can be classed as that in my eyes, and Thomas has promised a lot more than he has actually fulfilled.
Not one of the others has took us on long-term. Romm has flattered to deceive the whole time he has been here, you can count the good games he has had on one hand, and he is still yet to score a league goal at the Valley.
M Bent was dire value, particularly as he had a poor injury record. Sorrondo has been seen as regularly as lord lucan.
In Murphy and Jeffers, Curbs let his guard slip when researching personality off the pitch. Murphy never really wanted to be here, had two decent spells in the side, coupled with 4 longer spells when he didn't deliver. Smertin only delivered for about the first ten games. Ambrose, showing promise is simply not enough at the top level, you have to deliver and he hasn't.
Powell was a no brainer for a stop gap, Thomas was a good risk and Darren Bent was a steal. The rest you can forget though.
Problems really started when we lost the ability to open up the opposition defence i.e. Murphy's loss of form/being marked out of game and or leaving.. take your pic, my preference is the latter.
All the comparisons between the back end of last season and this season are irrelevant.
Dowie had £11m to spend.
Traore will be another Murphy, overpriced, uninterested, not up for a battle. Diawarra looked superb for 2 games, had a shocker at Chesterfield and has been injured, could be another Rowett Reid looks good in patches but is a luxury player who can only play in a 4-5-1 and cost us double what he is worth Faye is really not what I thought he was going to be but we were told that by Pompey and Newcastle fans on the other board.
If you want to compare the previous regime I would argue that if Curbs had of wanted to stay for the long term then he would have recognised the weaknesses as well as anyone and would have spent that money in a better way (although admittedly Faye was already tracked by Curbs in January)
[cite]Posted By: Southendaddick[/cite]All the comparisons between the back end of last season and this season are irrelevant.
Dowie had £11m to spend.
Traore will be another Murphy, overpriced, uninterested, not up for a battle.
Diawarra looked superb for 2 games, had a shocker at Chesterfield and has been injured, could be another Rowett
Reid looks good in patches but is a luxury player who can only play in a 4-5-1 and cost us double what he is worth
Faye is really not what I thought he was going to be but we were told that by Pompey and Newcastle fans on the other board.
If you want to compare the previous regime I would argue that if Curbs had of wanted to stay for the long term then he would have recognised the weaknesses as well as anyone and would have spent that money in a better way (although admittedly Faye was already tracked by Curbs in January)
Disagree about Reid and Troare, especially Reid, think the bloke is a 'Charlton player' works his nuts off, bit of quality about him, and can play in a 4-4-2 and a 4-5-1
Comments
Even when we won Div 1 we did so with a whimper....
5 points taken from our last 23 away games. 5 out of 69 - fair to say we have learning difficulties.
The fact that that has never been addressed tells it's own story.
True Dan, but my stats weren't based on the end of last season, they started from November 05.
The decline really started when Parker left, followed by Jensen and di Canio in the summer afterwards.
Last season we got off to a flier but I guess a league table from Nov onwards would have had us bottom or if not then in the bottom three.
Curbs knew it was all falling apart and personally I think he wanted to get out with his reputation intact.
We still came 11th and 13th(or was it 14th) since they left.
This season would have been more of a struggle but I'm certain we would have drawn some of the games we've lost under Curbs.
I'm sorry Len, i just think you're being too blinkered in your praise for Curbs. As i've said, no one is disputing how great he was, you won't find a bigger fan than me.
but it was his side that always packed in in March,
It was his side that could never win a cup game
it was his side that completely lost their way last season,
it was his side that posted the most dire relegation form in the six months of last season
it was his side that hasn't had a leader for the past two years
Losing Parker was a massive, massive blow. But he was given £10m plus to spend to soften the blow, and continued to be backed financially by the board right up to Marcus Bent.
It wasn't losing Parker that was necessarily the problem, it was also the fact we spent the proceeds and rebuilt so badly.
The rebuilding job to be done at the end of last season was huge and Curbs knew it. The whole spine of the team was (and pretty much still is) substandard, requiring at least 1 goalkeeper, 2 central defenders, 2 central midfielders and a striker.
I'm not digging at Curbs, his achievements speak for themselves but he's a very canny man and I'm convinced that though we may have been a couple of points better off under Curbs at this stage we'd be struggling in much the same way and turning in the kind of performances that we did on Saturday, as we did for the vast majority of last season (and large chunks of the previous two). Curbs will always be a legend but not even he could have gotten us out of this mess that he played a large part in getting us into.
Maybe it is the natural order of things and he couldn't work the miracles he had been any more, I'm not blaming Curbs but think the timing of his departure was very smart on his part.
I don't think I've missed anybody! The above are the players brought in by Curbs since Parker left.
Thomas -at £100K we've had our moneys worth even if he never kicks another ball for us.
Murphy- Plenty of people on "the other board" were metaphorically getting their knobs out about what a wonderful signing Murphy was. When he came he quickly demonstrated an inability to play in a 4-4-2 so we went 4-5-1 to accommodate him which worked well for a time until the egotistic bald headed twat decided that Charlton was too small a club for him and dropped us right in it by going to Spurs at 10 to midnight on 31st January. Yet rather than correctly blame Murphy we get snide comments about Curbishley's inability to manage big players from the usual suspects. You can do no more to accommodate a player than change your formation for goodness sake!
Francis Jeffers - calculated gamble since very cheap for a striker in Premiership terms. Unlucky in that he couldn't play in the 4-5-1 we had to adopt to accommodate the bald headed scouse twat also lacked the self discipline needed of a Premiership professional footballer.
Bryan Hughes - On paper a tailor made replacement for Graham Stuart having a proven record as a goalscoring midfielder. Therefore definitely worth the gamble on a Bosman. Has proved a reasonable squad player and good in cup matches.
Dennis Rommedahl - Another flair player we were all excited about. Has flattered to deceive but, on paper, just the type of player to take us to the mystical "next level." The 4-5-1 decision was made with him in mind as well as Murphy since he rapidly demonstrated how lightweight he is.
Chris Powell - I don't think anyone will argue that he was excellent last season.
Alexei Smertin - Everybody said we'd finally soved our midfield problems when Murphy, Smertin and KISH played together in a 4-5-1. For whatever reason he got homesick and went. Always a risk with a foreign player. He was a good signing though for as long as he lasted.
Darren Bent - Under Curbs our first striker to score 20 goals in a season at the top level in 50 years. Pretty crap purchase for £2.5 million really. I give you that Curbs got it wrong:-)
Darren Ambrose - May well have been brought in partly to help Darren Bent settle but certainly showed promise under Curbs at times. Has lost his way this season though but then there has been a (two!)change (s) of management!
Marcus Bent - Ok maybe he got that one wrong, seriously this time! On paper though a decent replacement for Bartlett as a target man and at £2.5 million not expensive in Premiership terms but, yes, pricy in Charlton terms. He arrived injured which leads me once more to ask questions of our medical department.
What I'm trying to say is that Curbs did not do a bad job with his buying subsequent to Parker. Murphy and Smertin left in January 2006 Curbishley left in May 2006 so how our lack of a midfield can be laid at his door puzzles me! Maybe I'm blinkered though:-)
Ten signings there, you can also add Gibbs and Sorondo as they were Curbs signings, so that's 12.
You compare that twelve with the previous 12 he brought into the club, or the 12 before that. (Of the previous 12, i would expect at least 7 to have been good signings).
From the above list only Darren Bent and Thomas can be classed as that in my eyes, and Thomas has promised a lot more than he has actually fulfilled.
Not one of the others has took us on long-term. Romm has flattered to deceive the whole time he has been here, you can count the good games he has had on one hand, and he is still yet to score a league goal at the Valley.
M Bent was dire value, particularly as he had a poor injury record. Sorrondo has been seen as regularly as lord lucan.
In Murphy and Jeffers, Curbs let his guard slip when researching personality off the pitch. Murphy never really wanted to be here, had two decent spells in the side, coupled with 4 longer spells when he didn't deliver. Smertin only delivered for about the first ten games. Ambrose, showing promise is simply not enough at the top level, you have to deliver and he hasn't.
Powell was a no brainer for a stop gap, Thomas was a good risk and Darren Bent was a steal. The rest you can forget though.
Dowie had £11m to spend.
Traore will be another Murphy, overpriced, uninterested, not up for a battle.
Diawarra looked superb for 2 games, had a shocker at Chesterfield and has been injured, could be another Rowett
Reid looks good in patches but is a luxury player who can only play in a 4-5-1 and cost us double what he is worth
Faye is really not what I thought he was going to be but we were told that by Pompey and Newcastle fans on the other board.
If you want to compare the previous regime I would argue that if Curbs had of wanted to stay for the long term then he would have recognised the weaknesses as well as anyone and would have spent that money in a better way (although admittedly Faye was already tracked by Curbs in January)
Disagree about Reid and Troare, especially Reid, think the bloke is a 'Charlton player' works his nuts off, bit of quality about him, and can play in a 4-4-2 and a 4-5-1