Apologies - posted twice as I don't want to be seen as this negative, doom merchant all the time - but I am just trying to be realistic ...
It's been 25 years since we've been this bad - in terms of league position - and even then in the old 2nd division and even the 3rd division, we had a team of players, who we knew weren't good quality, but AT LEAST THEY TRIED!
They weren't pampered, they couldn't be charlie-big-spuds because they'd played in the Premierleague less than 2 years ago, they were mostly homegrown or £10,000 players, NOT £10,000 A WEEK players.
They were Charlton players - the ground was a wreck, the terracing was steep and empty - but you know what - we played well from time to time - we took the mighty Ipswich side to the last kick of the game in the 3rd round of the FA Cup, the BBC Match Of The Day Cameras were there - Les Berry FFS was playing Centre Half.
But you know what - and this isn't rose coloured specatacles - I went to EVERY home game as a Kid and thought we WOULD WIN.
I go to every home game now and I expect to see a side bereft of hard graft, a will to win and players who professionally do not want to let each other down.
We are clueless
The side is full of strangers
We have conceded a bucket load of pieces from set pieces and yet we don't appear to get better at defending them
And up front, we play a poor sod who doesn't train due to family problems and then starts each game and looks more and more unfit
Luke Varney, Matt Holland, Mark Hudson - they are Charlton players of yesteryear, and I would rather see them play than those who we have playing at the moment - players who collectively are not fit to wear the shirt.
I will be there on Tuesday and next Monday - it will be freezing, but I shall come and sing and shout and support the side
Charlton 'Till I Die ..... but we are going down and better to now start working for next season.
Bring in Shelvey, Solley, Wright, Dickson, MacLeod - they'll all be invaluable to us next year ......
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I Think the problem with our current bunch is that by and large they ARE trying, but they are just clearly not good enough.
Players got slated in the 80s for being rubbish and lazy and being overpaid and unfit. Some of them were lazy and rubbish and some weren't. People have been moaning about overpaid players being pampered and not earning their money for as long as I can remember and even longer than that.
On another thread people remembered Simon Webster and John Robinson getting stick from fans. Why? Because someone felt that they didn't try hard enough. We forget that now.
We forget that lots of people voted with their feet and just didn't come to games as we were "so bad".
Luke Varney is now a "Charlton player of yesteryear" when he was being slated on this site a few days ago.
Mark Hudson is a "Charlton player of yesteryear" but is part of the defence that let's in all those goals you mention at set pieces and is the Captain.
You say bring in the kids or DIckson and McLeod but then they will be slagged off - Mcleod is already a "clown" to some. We've never seen Solly play. he might be a Scott Minto but he might be Paul Bacon or Jamie Stuart.
We are NOT Clueless. The team v Southampton was not clueless. At the moment we are poor, we lack concentration and most of all we lack belief and confidence. But they are all things that can be changed.
Parkinson still has to prove he is the man to do that. Some had written him off before he had a chance (not the Charlton "way of yesteryear" when we gave Lennie and Curbs plenty of time but hey let's just remember the things from the past that we want to) but I still think he has a few more games to turn it around. Blackpool is the first time that the team have let him down IMHO but one game is enough these days.
No we don't have a team like we did around 1998-2000, with players like Kinsella, Robinson, Stuart, Parker, Rufus, Powell, Mendonca etc, but that was based on more than just effort. The players knew how to play with each other, there was a team spirit built over time, they didn't have big expectations, they had confidence and they were consistent and reliable players. We have a squad full of players that can't handle the pressure, are nowhere near their peak, in a team in which the lineup changes more often that not, fans booing them if they come into the team and get off to a bad start. Pardew signed far too many inconsistent players, thinking he could get them to gel together and get the best out of them, but it didn't work.
So you want Varney back? When he was playing every week, he was criticized for being all effort and no end product. Now because the team can't create and score goals, can't defend set pieces and lack confidence, you want players like him in the team, because apparently none of them are trying and we're bottom of the league simply because of a lack of effort.
I agree with that, this season especially always talked about the players seem to lack concentration, and clearly any confidence.
Look at Semedo in the Southampton game. He wasn't sliding into tackles because he was playing with more passion' he clearly had more confidence and belief, and was going for everything. He'd been put back in CM and probably told by Parkinson he believed he can do a good job for the team there.
Also agree with that, not the time to putting the young players in. I want to see them get a chance, I haven't been happy with the lack of players we've brought through until the last few seasons when they've got a few games.
You mean Izel? : - )
I would like to see Shelvey in the squad because of the all the youngsters people who are close the squad tell me (no not Parky) he has the mental strength to cope. I also think he might give us a bit of something different with his passing and perhaps a lack of the fear that too many others are showing.
I agree that if the current team can't do it get others in but then people say that the other players might be upset seeing others (be it loan players or kids) come in. Well tough. If Solly is better than Cranie or Yassin then play him. If on the other hand Cranie is better than Solly or Yassin then play Cranie. If Gillespie is better than Sam then play him.
Doesn't mean the answer is to play 5/6 young players does it?
No the answer is to get the players who are shite out and get the players who aren't shite but just playing shite to stop playing shite. : - )
Which are which and how are questions I don't have answers for ; - )
Agree although I fear they might catch the same Charltonitis that Bailey seemed to catch. Confident all action player when he came and now nervous and making silly mistakes post Bristol City.
Shite player? Maybe we overated him. Shite team dragging him down to their level? Could be. Shite Coaching? Blame Mark Kinsella. He's the coach now ; - )
I still think we'll win every game - Does that mean I'm still 10!!
I don't think many of them are. Shelvey and Wright are promising players, as is Solly. But playing two young CMs together? When we already have Bailey who can be a good player, Holland has been consistent at what he does, Semedo and Racon have looked good at times.
Moutaouakil is a promising young right back himself. Solly hasn't even gone out on loan yet.
Basey, is he any better than McEveley? Or maybe he should play left midfield? Last time he did though, he had Cranie behind him, if had pace behind him it might work. But that would mean playing Youga, and a lot of fans don't want Youga anywhere near the team.
Elliot in goal instead of Weaver? Maybe. Didn't Weaver win players player of the year last season though? He can't have gone from a decent (but not great) keeper to a completely useless one.
We've already seen Wagstaff get a chance, he's not even as good as Lloyd Sam.
The rest of the youngsters - they're behind the ones I've mentioned, nowhere near the team at the moment, apart from maybe Arter since he made his debut last season.
At the moment we don't have m
Obviously, as I don't agree with you, I am wrong? Only time will tell at the end of the season, but anybody who wants a reality check - look at the league table two years ago and two years today ......
Because I don't share the same feelings or hope as the glass is half full brigade (when it comes to football) - I suddenly don't know what I'm talking about?
The board should be for everyone - fearing for our futures and saying play Shelvey, Wright, Solly, Varney, Holland, Hudson, Dickson, MacLeod, Fortune etc is NOT a bad choice - they couldn't possibly do worse than the current side, could they ....? So, why am I wrong?
And yes, I'm not saying play two youth centre midfielders at the same time - however, it's a squad game and I'd be more inspired by seeing those names above on the teamsheet, than the names Burton, Crainie, Wagstaff ....
Given we have the same manager on Tuesday and the same squad to choose from - I would like to see my choices - doesn't mean I'm going to - but the same old, same old that we've had for the first half of this season is crippling this club and dragging us into League one - so why not change things and see if that helps?
Youth players can freeze, but good ones will thrive and do what they did for Palace
I thought people have been saying "Look at Palace last year" and "We can still make the play-offs" - well Warnock started playing his young players - so why again, am I wrong to say "Play our young players" ?!?!?
You can't use one argument to back your case about why we can stay up "a - la - Palace" and then use it as an argument to shout down not playing our young players ...
As for the ones you suggest, Shelvey struggled in a youth game last week, Varney in my opinion never settled down here and wanted to go home, Holland as much as i love him has been a key part of our midfield that has failed for the last three years, Wright IMO isn't at this grade and i'm not sure will be, and Solly similarly is nowhere near ready for this level. Agree on Fortune, and i'd also like to see McLeod given a go now.
And if the worst does happen - by them getting 10-15 games under the belt this year, they'll be all the more ready for Division 1 football next year ....
And Harry Gregory before that
Sorry but you are quoting me on things I didn't say.
I'm not saying "I am right, you are wrong". I am disagreeing with the points you made.
I never said "you don't know what you are talking about" I just disagreed with you.
I didn't say "the kids will freeze". I said that I'd like to see Shelvey in the Squad but that we didn't know if Solly was good enough. I would like to see Basey in the squad as well but some of Palace's youngsters came in and then went out of the squad. Bostock played 4 times I think.
I didn't say "we can stay up ala Palace" I said that Warnock started by making the team hard to beat (6 draws on the spin) and then they started winning in response to people who claimed that a 0 - 0 at home was "tosh".
It's easy to shout someone down if you just make up something they never said.
worked 4 palace!
As fans i think we now have to knuckle down accept it and do our bit to try to help out.
Giving Buzz dog loads on saturday may have made some feel better, but did it really make him want to put in a bit more effort, i doubt it,, yet people are moaning that he gave them the V sign, so what if he did
I am royally pissed off at how things are panning out this season, i aint pleased at all i have my frustrations at the players the board and Pardew, one of them has gone as have some of the players who wernt helping.
We all have to accept that this season we have got the players and the manager and the board that are here right now, If you think getting rid of more will help then i can understand that but i am wary of how much change can destabalise even more a club that is teetering on the edge of a disaster.
You may want to sack the board you may want to sack Parkie you may want to drop certain players but we have hit rock bottom now,
you are the fans when it is going great you get on and enjoy the ride, you are also the real fans when it is going shit you roll your sleeves up and TRY to get them going
so what if it doesnt seem to have the desired impact immediately so what if we loose every game from now to the end of the season, we all have moaned about not trying on the pitch so lets not all stop trying now
What other alternative is there
go down without a fight
go down saying i told you so
i was right you were wrong is all bollox we are feeling like this because we give a shit, lets turn up tomorrow lets be in full voice and lets give it 100% to get behind them.
I am not saying we are too blame before that gets levelled at me i am saying lets focus on what we can do at each game
We aint got no money, We aint got Curbs or Davies or whoever else you want weve got Parky
But at the moment we still have Charlton lets fecking do our best to keep it that way
Not so sure Palace did play 5 or 6 youngster every week. Scannel was a regular (off the bench) but most of the others only played a few games. Bostock 6, moses 13, hall 1, robinson 1.
However I do think that Basey and Shelvey should get a look in