But I think, if anything, you underplay the sheer confusion of his season and a half in the championship. It's not that he didn't have a vision. Initially I think he did. As you suggest, he genuinely thought we could play our way back to the top flight. Then when we came up against some muscular teams and we couldn't compete physically, he said we had to learn the lessons and toughen up.
All that was fair enough. But I think it then all just got hopelessly confused. Nobody quite knew whether we were meant to be silkily moving the ball about and leaving the lumbering oafs of the championship taking air shots as we skipped elegantly past them or if we were meant to be strong and muscular and standing up to them and toughing it out. Ideally, of course, he should have been able to find a way to combine both. But we ended up doing neither. That's probably where all the panic-stricken chopping and changing came in - and from there it was just downhill all the way and he never regained a consistently focussed approach.
Pardew at the beginning of last season did say he wanted his team to play with attacking flair and prolific goalscoring.
When you compare that promise with what we've been served up since Andy Reid last played, you can see that Pardew has panicked, and with scattered thinking, fallen between two stools.
That is a really good piece, Danny, and thanks because I have to be honest I felt really choked at the game yesterday. Although we lost by a few goals, it was not that bad a performance in terms of effort in my view, and I just so wanted us to get back in it.
So for me, in the end, Pardew's reign does not end on the debacle that was Barnsley, but on a better attempt that we should have seen so much more of before now, EVEN IF we were losing games. What was getting me was the complacency that somehow it was all just a blip. But where we are in the league tells the real story, and you are right to say how far we have fallen.
Whoever comes in or takes over control will have to find a way to put some confidence back in this team and find a way to make us hard to beat again. And get us out of relegation danger as the number one priority. Anything more than that is for another day at the moment.
I still believe there is plenty of skill in this team, but we need clear, consistent organisation and leadership.
And we as fans, need to also take a look at ourselves in one key area : a hard core of supporters kept behind the team yesterday, but a load turned on players that were making mistakes but were clearly trying. How does taking the piss out of your keeper every time he picks the ball up cleanly make him perform better? It just puts him under more pressure. Why do that to one of OUR team??
So if we are going to get out of this mess, we need to show what we are made of too.
Lets state now that it is never easy for any manager that has to sell his best players. But Pardew was given more than adequate time and funds to get things right. Thirty five players arrived at The Valley in his time, some have left already while few have shined. More worryingly, virtually none have improved in their time here.
Just what I saying yesterday, Pardew has used a huge amount of players, can't think of any that have improved significantly, and he certainly hasn't got the best out of many, if any.
[cite]Posted By: 3blokes[/cite]
And we as fans, need to also take a look at ourselves in one key area : a hard core of supporters kept behind the team yesterday, but a load turned on players that were making mistakes but were clearly trying. How does taking the piss out of your keeper every time he picks the ball up cleanly make him perform better? It just puts him under more pressure. Why do that to one of OUR team??
So if we are going to get out of this mess, we need to show what we are made of too.
I'm so glad you've raised this point, 3B.
Every so often I get on my soapbox and have a rant about so-called supporters who consistantly rubbish their own team - especially when they pick on an individual player who may very well be trying his hardest - or booing their own player before, let alone during the match.
All they do is help the opposition - our very own 'anti-supporters'.
They might as well sit with the away support in the Jimmy Seed.
Okay, the tired old argument about 'they've paid their money, so they're entitled to behave in whatever way they like', may be valid ........ but for crying out loud, whose side are they on???
And if they are constantly rubbishing an individual player, undermining him and apparently hoping he will fail again and again, don't they have any idea football is a confidence game?
I wish they'd go away and find their spiritual home at some place like Millwall. They might as well for all the support they give Charlton.
Oggy you are allowed that rant. A very fair and cogent one , as rants go!
But a question, not specifically for you, but for all those who argued against Pardew being shown the door following the Barnsley game.
The pro-Pardew voices surprised me both in their numerical strength and the honest passion of their arguments, so I ask this question out of quite genuine interest and not at all to be provocative:
Does anyone who thought it would have been wrong to sack Pardew three weeks ago think that the board were wrong last night and he should have been given more time - say, until Xmas ?
As Killersbeard will no doubt say tonight, you cannot defend the un-defendable. After Barnsley I felt that was it - is time was up, 3Blokes will vouch for that. The board stuck by him and by the Wednesday it was apparent that he was still going to be with us. The Alan Pardew I met at Bexley Park was a different one I had met previously. Far more humble. He knew his job was on the line. Performances at Plymouth and Birmingham suggested that he had found the right combination at last. I felt that with a little luck it could well have been the turning point. How wrong I was.
Was I sucked in by spin, possibly yes.
Was I wrong to be optimistic? No.
If you give up believing then you might as well give up on everything.
Cheers, Nigel ..... glad to get that one off my chest, lol
I'll have a go at your question, though.
I've always quite liked Pardew - but after Andy Reid's last game, it became evident the 'brains' of the team had been surgically removed and no amount of fiddling seemed able to compensate - especially when the only tactic seemed to boil down to lumping the ball high up the park vaguely in the direction of Big Chris.
Then Pards had a little inspired spell - the West Brom cup matches, Blackpool home, Stoke and Palace, mostly driven by 2 pacy attack minded fullbacks, Magic playing the ball out from defence, and 2 pacy runners up front. We tore teams apart but Moo2 faffed his clearance at Scunny and was banished, and an unsettled Gray replaced the non-scoring but panic causing McLeod.
Why on earth did Pards not persevere with that formation? IMO, it was his salvation and more than likely would have ensured we finished, erm ......5th.
The rest of the season bar Argyle away and Coventry home, was clueless and verged on clutching at straws.
The Barnsley game begged the question, 'where do we go from here?'
This season, despite all the brave words, has just been more of the same - so after the Barnsley game the writing was on the wall - except Derek Chappell said the Board would stand by the manager.
Immediately, there was a sea-change in attitude from Pards, a baring of his soul and credit to the man for having the courage to face supporters at NW Addicks. It was clear Pards had received an ultimatum - but he must have had a last chance stand to convince the board for that last chance.
The Argyle match was highlighted by a team performance transformed from what I'd witnessed in the Burnley game - and I came away hugely encouraged that we'd turned a corner. The Brum match was much of the same, according to those who actually went - undermined by individual errors that no manager can legislate for. We may very well have got 6 points from those 2 matches, but we didn't.
Yesterday's match was again totally collapsed by individual errors rather than the team performance as a whole.
But if there's no confidence or belief and the manager's last throw of the dice doesn't do the trick - then he has to go.
If only to change the energy and mentality of the place.
Of course the results have to the major factor in Pardews exit but I certainly think that the board picked up on the complete and almost stunned silence and feeling of acceptance at the Barnsley and Sheffield results. Once the fans are expectant of losing to very mediocre teams at home then the writing is on the wall for any manager.
Comments
But I think, if anything, you underplay the sheer confusion of his season and a half in the championship. It's not that he didn't have a vision. Initially I think he did. As you suggest, he genuinely thought we could play our way back to the top flight. Then when we came up against some muscular teams and we couldn't compete physically, he said we had to learn the lessons and toughen up.
All that was fair enough. But I think it then all just got hopelessly confused. Nobody quite knew whether we were meant to be silkily moving the ball about and leaving the lumbering oafs of the championship taking air shots as we skipped elegantly past them or if we were meant to be strong and muscular and standing up to them and toughing it out. Ideally, of course, he should have been able to find a way to combine both. But we ended up doing neither. That's probably where all the panic-stricken chopping and changing came in - and from there it was just downhill all the way and he never regained a consistently focussed approach.
Pardew at the beginning of last season did say he wanted his team to play with attacking flair and prolific goalscoring.
When you compare that promise with what we've been served up since Andy Reid last played, you can see that Pardew has panicked, and with scattered thinking, fallen between two stools.
Nigel, you make some good points too.
So for me, in the end, Pardew's reign does not end on the debacle that was Barnsley, but on a better attempt that we should have seen so much more of before now, EVEN IF we were losing games. What was getting me was the complacency that somehow it was all just a blip. But where we are in the league tells the real story, and you are right to say how far we have fallen.
Whoever comes in or takes over control will have to find a way to put some confidence back in this team and find a way to make us hard to beat again. And get us out of relegation danger as the number one priority. Anything more than that is for another day at the moment.
I still believe there is plenty of skill in this team, but we need clear, consistent organisation and leadership.
And we as fans, need to also take a look at ourselves in one key area : a hard core of supporters kept behind the team yesterday, but a load turned on players that were making mistakes but were clearly trying. How does taking the piss out of your keeper every time he picks the ball up cleanly make him perform better? It just puts him under more pressure. Why do that to one of OUR team??
So if we are going to get out of this mess, we need to show what we are made of too.
Just what I saying yesterday, Pardew has used a huge amount of players, can't think of any that have improved significantly, and he certainly hasn't got the best out of many, if any.
I'm so glad you've raised this point, 3B.
Every so often I get on my soapbox and have a rant about so-called supporters who consistantly rubbish their own team - especially when they pick on an individual player who may very well be trying his hardest - or booing their own player before, let alone during the match.
All they do is help the opposition - our very own 'anti-supporters'.
They might as well sit with the away support in the Jimmy Seed.
Okay, the tired old argument about 'they've paid their money, so they're entitled to behave in whatever way they like', may be valid ........ but for crying out loud, whose side are they on???
And if they are constantly rubbishing an individual player, undermining him and apparently hoping he will fail again and again, don't they have any idea football is a confidence game?
I wish they'd go away and find their spiritual home at some place like Millwall. They might as well for all the support they give Charlton.
Rant over.
;o)
But a question, not specifically for you, but for all those who argued against Pardew being shown the door following the Barnsley game.
The pro-Pardew voices surprised me both in their numerical strength and the honest passion of their arguments, so I ask this question out of quite genuine interest and not at all to be provocative:
Does anyone who thought it would have been wrong to sack Pardew three weeks ago think that the board were wrong last night and he should have been given more time - say, until Xmas ?
Was I sucked in by spin, possibly yes.
Was I wrong to be optimistic? No.
If you give up believing then you might as well give up on everything.
I'll have a go at your question, though.
I've always quite liked Pardew - but after Andy Reid's last game, it became evident the 'brains' of the team had been surgically removed and no amount of fiddling seemed able to compensate - especially when the only tactic seemed to boil down to lumping the ball high up the park vaguely in the direction of Big Chris.
Then Pards had a little inspired spell - the West Brom cup matches, Blackpool home, Stoke and Palace, mostly driven by 2 pacy attack minded fullbacks, Magic playing the ball out from defence, and 2 pacy runners up front. We tore teams apart but Moo2 faffed his clearance at Scunny and was banished, and an unsettled Gray replaced the non-scoring but panic causing McLeod.
Why on earth did Pards not persevere with that formation? IMO, it was his salvation and more than likely would have ensured we finished, erm ......5th.
The rest of the season bar Argyle away and Coventry home, was clueless and verged on clutching at straws.
The Barnsley game begged the question, 'where do we go from here?'
This season, despite all the brave words, has just been more of the same - so after the Barnsley game the writing was on the wall - except Derek Chappell said the Board would stand by the manager.
Immediately, there was a sea-change in attitude from Pards, a baring of his soul and credit to the man for having the courage to face supporters at NW Addicks. It was clear Pards had received an ultimatum - but he must have had a last chance stand to convince the board for that last chance.
The Argyle match was highlighted by a team performance transformed from what I'd witnessed in the Burnley game - and I came away hugely encouraged that we'd turned a corner. The Brum match was much of the same, according to those who actually went - undermined by individual errors that no manager can legislate for. We may very well have got 6 points from those 2 matches, but we didn't.
Yesterday's match was again totally collapsed by individual errors rather than the team performance as a whole.
But if there's no confidence or belief and the manager's last throw of the dice doesn't do the trick - then he has to go.
If only to change the energy and mentality of the place.
And that time was now.