In Flanders fields the poppies blow Between the crosses, row on row, That mark our place; and in the sky The larks, still bravely singing, fly Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow, Loved and were loved, and now we lie In Flanders fields.
Take up our quarrel with the foe: To you from failing hands we throw The torch; be yours to hold it high. If ye break faith with us who die We shall not sleep, though poppies grow In Flanders fields.
[cite]Posted By: clivey_hero[/cite]we had one at work , which considering we are a German owned company was interesting .
We WILL Remember them
why was that interesting ? The Germans are a decent people and regret the wars as much as we do. I work for a German Bank and would have expected nothing less than a two minutes silence. I actually went out of the building into the fresh air to have the silence on my own without the distraction of phones going etc. Amazing just how many people carry on a normal and can't even stop for a couple of minutes quiet reflection. Very disrepectful.
Suprised Large. I go to a monument outside my building that has the war dead engraved and poppy reefs laid. Its on probably the busiest junction in the city, about 100 gather and its amazingly earie as the silence unfolds. Buses turn off their engines, cabbies step out of their cabs, and you get almost total silence in the heart of the city.
Large you do what you have to f**k the rest. Paying your respects is just that to me --- its me paying my respects.
few days after 7/7 at Kings Cross , never seen so many people walk out buildings , offices, sites etc. When the taffic didnt look like it was going to stop 100s walked in the road.
[quote][cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: clivey_hero[/cite]we had one at work , which considering we are a German owned company was interesting .
We WILL Remember them[/quote]
why was that interesting ? The Germans are a decent people and regret the wars as much as we do. I work for a German Bank and would have expected nothing less than a two minutes silence. I actually went out of the building into the fresh air to have the silence on my own without the distraction of phones going etc. Amazing just how many people carry on a normal and can't even stop for a couple of minutes quiet reflection. Very disrepectful.[/quote]
I never said they were not decent people , it was interesting because I have worked in many british companies who don't do anything . so it was a pleasant surprise hope that explains things
[cite]Posted By: clivey_hero[/cite]we had one at work , which considering we are a German owned company was interesting .
We WILL Remember them
why was that interesting ? The Germans are a decent people and regret the wars as much as we do. I work for a German Bank and would have expected nothing less than a two minutes silence.
Quite. I think there's something quite poigant, almost wonderful about standing shoulder-to-shoulder with a German remembering the war dead.
On Sunday morning I heard Terry Dearing, the author of the Horrible Histories series of books, say that while he was researching material for the Great War, it came to light how few German accounts exist in the English language - virtually none, which was interesting. Think about, very little is ever written about the suffering of the other nations involved in the war, even our Allies.
He said that once he did read some German accounts it turned out that their suffering was arguably worse than that of the British & Allied soldiers as, as well as being subjected to the same relentless onslaught, they were also virtually starved into submission because their supply lines were cut off.
Nearly 2m Germans were killed in the war (as did a similar no. of Russians). We think of the suffering being an almost British catastrophe when in fact it was very much global. Ironically so many accounts and reports of the Great War refer to the now outmoded idea of whether friend of foe, no-one wanted to be there and they were all in it together and the suffering was universal.
While we're absolutely right to remember those who died in defence of our country, it can't be a bad thing, nor do I think it disloyal to our boys, to remember everyone and anyone who died in such a ruthless and expendable manner.
My daughter recited this simple poem some years ago and for me it conveys the tragedy and loss of war.
To set in context: This poem was written by Vera Brittain in memory of her fiance, Roland Leighton, who was killed in World War 1.
Perhaps (To R.A.L.)
Perhaps some day the sun will shine again,
And I shall see that still the skies are blue,
And feel once more I do not live in vain,
Although bereft of You.
Perhaps the golden meadows at my feet
Will make the sunny hours of spring seem gay,
And I shall find the white May-blossoms sweet,
Though You have passed away.
Perhaps the summer woods will shimmer bright,
And crimson roses once again be fair,
And autumn harvest fields a rich delight,
Although You are not there.
Perhaps some day I shall not shrink in pain
To see the passing of the dying year,
And listen to Christmas songs again,
Although You cannot hear.'
But though kind Time may many joys renew,
There is one greatest joy I shall not know
Again, because my heart for loss of You
Was broken, long ago.
Will confess to shedding a tear this morning - the sight of the 112 year old veteran at the Cenotaph, was absolutely determined to lay his own reef but his legs just wouldn't allow him. Heartbreaking.
Did anyone else listen to Wrighty and Durhum on Talksport last night?
At celtic on saturday they had a minutes appluse because they knew that a certain section of the fans would disrupt a minutes silence. Then during the minutes appluse about 200 celtic fans walked out. How f***ing disrespectful is that!
Actually had a couple of people on the show trying to justify it, wankers!
Was this for Rememberance Day? Why would they walk out?
I don't like applause. I quite liked it the first time I saw it, but now I just think it's a poor way of showing respect to the dead. As you say, it can just be a way of hiding disruption.
I havn't read the thread you are referring to but, in my opinion, if you are serving in the Armed Forces and die in combat it doesn't matter whether that was in WW1, WW2, Iraq or Afghanistan, it's all the same to me. Whether you agree with the cause of the conflict or not is immaterial. At the end of the day you are still dying for your country.
I work for the Japanese, but our office is manned mostly by British and at 11.00am our two minutes silence was held without interuption.
The memory of those who gave their lives for freedom was and should always be of global significance, not least because there were many nationalities involved that fought side by side.
I have always tried to ensure that my kids know the significance of today, so that the importance that we never forget carries on.
[cite]Posted By: jimmymelrose[/cite]
I don't like applause. I quite liked it the first time I saw it, but now I just think it's a poor way of showing respect to the dead. As you say, it can just be a way of hiding disruption.
I tend to agree. In some cases I think the applause is a good idea (when a great player or public figure has died etc.) but the silence is more poignent in this case I think.
You wouldn't go to Ypres or any of the other of th many grave sites etc. and stand there clapping in my eyes. You naturally pay your respects in a silent way lending your thoughts to those who lost their lives.
Maybe first you should read the thread Large - just click on the link.
I watched the ceremony this morning from La Meuse, attended by Prince Charles. In the President's speech he referred only to the First World War - quite naturally as they were surrounded by the graves of those who died in that war. In his speech he said that we should pay our respects to all soldiers of all nationalities who fought in the war, listing them all including England, Scotland and Ireland (forgot Wales though!). He included German soldiers in that and later they went to the German cemetary and played a song, bowed their heads, laid flowers etc.
The general message was that we should never forget what all these soldiers of all nationalities went through on these battlefieds and that we must stay united in Europe in peace in the future.
It therefore seems wrong to say that it's for the British Armed Forces only. Most of the other nations haven't been involved in Iraq or Afghanistan. If you want to stipulate this you also have to accept any war that the other nationalities have been involved in e.g. the French war in Algeria, Russians in Georgia etc.
It seems more simple and also more logical to recognise today as rememberance of the First World War.
On Sunday they had various groups laying reefs. I may be mistaken but I think Prince Andrews one was to do with the Falkland Islands war and there was a WW2 reef as well. I've always thought it was to do with all British soldiers who have died in action and was started after WW1. In that case you can understand why some Celtic fans would walk out (I don't condole that at all). It should always be a 2 minute silence though.
[cite]Posted By: jimmymelrose[/cite]In his speech he said that we should pay our respects to all soldiers of all nationalities who fought in the war, listing them all including England, Scotland and Ireland (forgot Wales though!). He included German soldiers in that
The general message was that we should never forget what all these soldiers of all nationalities went through on these battlefieds
Right as well. All soldiers were just human beings too.... remember the legend of the christmas day football match between the Germans and the British during WW1? The Germans were also normal blokes, leaving behind their families and risking their lives for their country - no different to the soldiers of the allies.
[cite]Posted By: jimmymelrose[/cite]It therefore seems wrong to say that it's for the British Armed Forces only. Most of the other nations haven't been involved in Iraq or Afghanistan. If you want to stipulate this you also have to accept any war that the other nationalities have been involved in e.g. the French war in Algeria, Russians in Georgia etc.
It's a day of remembrance. As said above, we should remember the other countries too, but mostly we remember those that gave up their lives serving crown and country - our crown and country. That includes any conflict, including Iraq, Afghanistan, Northern Ireland, Kosovo, Bosnia, the Falkland Islands, anywhere.
[cite]Posted By: jimmymelrose[/cite]It seems more simple and also more logical to recognise today as rememberance of the First World War.
Being a big anniversary, it's only natural that WW1 takes centre stage this remembrance day. WW2 was more featured three years ago..
Just found the lyrics to Brothers in Arms...Dire Straits.
That song 'always' brings a lump in my throat and even now I have a tear or two.
If any kind soul out there knows how to copy and paste the words on here I'd be most obliged...cos I simply don't know how.
They are very beautiful.
These mist covered mountains
Are a home now for me
But my home is the lowlands
And always will be
Some day youll return to
Your valleys and your farms
And youll no longer burn
To be brothers in arms
Through these fields of destruction
Baptisms of fire
Ive watched all your suffering
As the battles raged higher
And though they did hurt me so bad
In the fear and alarm
You did not desert me
My brothers in arms
Theres so many different worlds
So many differents suns
And we have just one world
But we live in different ones
Now the suns gone to hell
And the moons riding high
Let me bid you farewell
Every man has to die
But its written in the starlight
And every line on your palm
Were fools to make war
On our brothers in arms
I believe we can all mark our respects in what ever way we individually feel is appropriate. As somebody who lost family members in both First and Second World wars, my focus is naturally on them.
For others the focus is on, as Wilfred Owen put it, "the pity of war". That's perfectly fine as far as I'm concerned.
Strange Meeting by Wilfred Owen
It seemed that out of the battle I escaped
Down some profound dull tunnel, long since scooped
Through granites which titanic wars had groined.
Yet also there encumbered sleepers groaned,
Too fast in thought or death to be bestirred.
Then, as I probed them, one sprang up, and stared
With piteous recognition in fixed eyes,
Lifting distressful hands as if to bless.
And by his smile, I knew that sullen hall;
By his dead smile I knew we stood in Hell.
With a thousand pains that vision's face was grained;
Yet no blood reached there from the upper ground,
And no guns thumped, or down the flues made moan.
"Strange friend," I said, "here is no cause to mourn."
"None," said the other, "save the undone years,
The hopelessness. Whatever hope is yours,
Was my life also; I went hunting wild
After the wildest beauty in the world,
Which lies not calm in eyes, or braided hair,
But mocks the steady running of the hour,
And if it grieves, grieves richlier than here.
For by my glee might many men have laughed,
And of my weeping something had been left,
Which must die now. I mean the truth untold,
The pity of war, the pity war distilled.
Now men will go content with what we spoiled,
Or, discontent, boil bloody, and be spilled.
They will be swift with swiftness of the tigress,
None will break ranks, though nations trek from progress.
Courage was mine, and I had mystery,
Wisdom was mine, and I had mastery;
To miss the march of this retreating world
Into vain citadels that are not walled.
Then when much blood had clogged their chariot wheels
I would go up and wash them from sweet wells,
Even with truths that lie too deep for taint.
I would have poured my spirit without stint
But not through wounds; not on the cess of war.
Foreheads of men have bled where no wounds were.
I am the enemy you killed, my friend.
I knew you in this dark; for so you frowned
Yesterday through me as you jabbed and killed.
I parried; but my hands were loath and cold.
Let us sleep now...."
On Sunday morning I heard Terry Dearing, the author of the Horrible Histories series of books, say that while he was researching material for the Great War, it came to light how few German accounts exist in the English language - virtually none, which was interesting. Think about, very little is ever written about the suffering of the other nations involved in the war, even our Allies.
One of the best books on WW1 was written by a German & made into a film in 1930...
I was at a business meeting today. We were in the middle of a powerpoint presentation when, at 11 o'clock, the speaker asked everyone to stand and observe a silence. He'd prepared a slide with a poppy montage which he left on the screen during the period.
On Sunday morning I heard Terry Dearing, the author of the Horrible Histories series of books, say that while he was researching material for the Great War, it came to light how few German accounts exist in the English language - virtually none, which was interesting. Think about, very little is ever written about the suffering of the other nations involved in the war, even our Allies.
One of the best books on WW1 was written by a German & made into a film in 1930...
Name: TEBBY, SAMUEL
Initials: S
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Bedfordshire Regiment
Unit Text: 1st Bn.
Age: 29
Date of Death: 15/11/1914
Service No: 6987
Additional information: Husband of Grace Tebby, of 183, Livingstone Rd., Thornton Heath, Surrey.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 31 and 33.
Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL
Addickted, myself and fellow Charlton fan Dave Milnes were privileged to visit the grave of Fred Chick at Caterpillar Valley, Longueval, on Wed 19th Nov 2008, 92 years to the day of the official conclusion of the Battle of the Somme. The previous evening we had witnessed the moving Last Post ceremony at the Menin Gate. Henry kindly emailed the extract produced by Clive Harris that appeared in the Charlton programme regarding Charlton and WW1 in the Trenches and I attach the extract relating to Fred Chick/WW1 below.
'Unfortunately, I can find no confirmation of the names of the
further three casualties among the staff, but one name that does
come to light is that of Fred Chick.
He appears in the 1913/14 team photograph and appears to
be a trainer judging by his dress.
Chick also appears in the casualty lists for the 13th Middlesex
Regiment. This unit was raised in Mill Hill some distance from
Charlton but was used as an overspill unit for those joining the
17th (Footballers’) Battalion of the Middlesex Regiment.
By looking into his military record further, we find him
recorded as Private 245365 Frederick Chick, Royal West Kent
Hussars attached 13th Middlesex Regiment, residing in
Camberwell, killed in action 31 August 1916, buried in
Caterpillar Valley Cemetery, Longueval, Somme.
Given his unique name, South London address and that he
serves with a regiment with no local but sporting connections,
I believe him to be the man in the pre-war team photograph.
It is also worth noting that the Royal West Kent Hussars
(Chick’s original unit) served only in Gallipoli and not France; it
is likely that he signed up for overseas service after his unit had
departed for further climes, went to join the footballers’ battalion
Comments
We WILL Remember them
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.
Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep,
though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
why was that interesting ? The Germans are a decent people and regret the wars as much as we do. I work for a German Bank and would have expected nothing less than a two minutes silence. I actually went out of the building into the fresh air to have the silence on my own without the distraction of phones going etc. Amazing just how many people carry on a normal and can't even stop for a couple of minutes quiet reflection. Very disrepectful.
few days after 7/7 at Kings Cross , never seen so many people walk out buildings , offices, sites etc. When the taffic didnt look like it was going to stop 100s walked in the road.
We WILL Remember them[/quote]
why was that interesting ? The Germans are a decent people and regret the wars as much as we do. I work for a German Bank and would have expected nothing less than a two minutes silence. I actually went out of the building into the fresh air to have the silence on my own without the distraction of phones going etc. Amazing just how many people carry on a normal and can't even stop for a couple of minutes quiet reflection. Very disrepectful.[/quote]
I never said they were not decent people , it was interesting because I have worked in many british companies who don't do anything . so it was a pleasant surprise
hope that explains things
On Sunday morning I heard Terry Dearing, the author of the Horrible Histories series of books, say that while he was researching material for the Great War, it came to light how few German accounts exist in the English language - virtually none, which was interesting. Think about, very little is ever written about the suffering of the other nations involved in the war, even our Allies.
He said that once he did read some German accounts it turned out that their suffering was arguably worse than that of the British & Allied soldiers as, as well as being subjected to the same relentless onslaught, they were also virtually starved into submission because their supply lines were cut off.
Nearly 2m Germans were killed in the war (as did a similar no. of Russians). We think of the suffering being an almost British catastrophe when in fact it was very much global. Ironically so many accounts and reports of the Great War refer to the now outmoded idea of whether friend of foe, no-one wanted to be there and they were all in it together and the suffering was universal.
While we're absolutely right to remember those who died in defence of our country, it can't be a bad thing, nor do I think it disloyal to our boys, to remember everyone and anyone who died in such a ruthless and expendable manner.
Read the posting from diamond geezer, two minute silence
To set in context: This poem was written by Vera Brittain in memory of her fiance, Roland Leighton, who was killed in World War 1.
Perhaps (To R.A.L.)
Perhaps some day the sun will shine again,
And I shall see that still the skies are blue,
And feel once more I do not live in vain,
Although bereft of You.
Perhaps the golden meadows at my feet
Will make the sunny hours of spring seem gay,
And I shall find the white May-blossoms sweet,
Though You have passed away.
Perhaps the summer woods will shimmer bright,
And crimson roses once again be fair,
And autumn harvest fields a rich delight,
Although You are not there.
Perhaps some day I shall not shrink in pain
To see the passing of the dying year,
And listen to Christmas songs again,
Although You cannot hear.'
But though kind Time may many joys renew,
There is one greatest joy I shall not know
Again, because my heart for loss of You
Was broken, long ago.
Link: http://www.charltonlife.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=20907&page=2
On this thread you are all (quite rightly in my opinion) referring to The First World War.
Any thoughts on this matter?
At celtic on saturday they had a minutes appluse because they knew that a certain section of the fans would disrupt a minutes silence. Then during the minutes appluse about 200 celtic fans walked out. How f***ing disrespectful is that!
Actually had a couple of people on the show trying to justify it, wankers!
I don't like applause. I quite liked it the first time I saw it, but now I just think it's a poor way of showing respect to the dead. As you say, it can just be a way of hiding disruption.
The memory of those who gave their lives for freedom was and should always be of global significance, not least because there were many nationalities involved that fought side by side.
I have always tried to ensure that my kids know the significance of today, so that the importance that we never forget carries on.
I tend to agree. In some cases I think the applause is a good idea (when a great player or public figure has died etc.) but the silence is more poignent in this case I think.
You wouldn't go to Ypres or any of the other of th many grave sites etc. and stand there clapping in my eyes. You naturally pay your respects in a silent way lending your thoughts to those who lost their lives.
I watched the ceremony this morning from La Meuse, attended by Prince Charles. In the President's speech he referred only to the First World War - quite naturally as they were surrounded by the graves of those who died in that war. In his speech he said that we should pay our respects to all soldiers of all nationalities who fought in the war, listing them all including England, Scotland and Ireland (forgot Wales though!). He included German soldiers in that and later they went to the German cemetary and played a song, bowed their heads, laid flowers etc.
The general message was that we should never forget what all these soldiers of all nationalities went through on these battlefieds and that we must stay united in Europe in peace in the future.
It therefore seems wrong to say that it's for the British Armed Forces only. Most of the other nations haven't been involved in Iraq or Afghanistan. If you want to stipulate this you also have to accept any war that the other nationalities have been involved in e.g. the French war in Algeria, Russians in Georgia etc.
It seems more simple and also more logical to recognise today as rememberance of the First World War.
Right as well. All soldiers were just human beings too.... remember the legend of the christmas day football match between the Germans and the British during WW1? The Germans were also normal blokes, leaving behind their families and risking their lives for their country - no different to the soldiers of the allies.
It's a day of remembrance. As said above, we should remember the other countries too, but mostly we remember those that gave up their lives serving crown and country - our crown and country. That includes any conflict, including Iraq, Afghanistan, Northern Ireland, Kosovo, Bosnia, the Falkland Islands, anywhere.
Being a big anniversary, it's only natural that WW1 takes centre stage this remembrance day. WW2 was more featured three years ago..
That song 'always' brings a lump in my throat and even now I have a tear or two.
If any kind soul out there knows how to copy and paste the words on here I'd be most obliged...cos I simply don't know how.
They are very beautiful.
These mist covered mountains
Are a home now for me
But my home is the lowlands
And always will be
Some day youll return to
Your valleys and your farms
And youll no longer burn
To be brothers in arms
Through these fields of destruction
Baptisms of fire
Ive watched all your suffering
As the battles raged higher
And though they did hurt me so bad
In the fear and alarm
You did not desert me
My brothers in arms
Theres so many different worlds
So many differents suns
And we have just one world
But we live in different ones
Now the suns gone to hell
And the moons riding high
Let me bid you farewell
Every man has to die
But its written in the starlight
And every line on your palm
Were fools to make war
On our brothers in arms
We should remember them all
thats what my Grandad always said have a spare thought in your moment of reflection for both sets of war dead.
so i do
today is about WW1 but should be for all IMO
For others the focus is on, as Wilfred Owen put it, "the pity of war". That's perfectly fine as far as I'm concerned.
Strange Meeting by Wilfred Owen
It seemed that out of the battle I escaped
Down some profound dull tunnel, long since scooped
Through granites which titanic wars had groined.
Yet also there encumbered sleepers groaned,
Too fast in thought or death to be bestirred.
Then, as I probed them, one sprang up, and stared
With piteous recognition in fixed eyes,
Lifting distressful hands as if to bless.
And by his smile, I knew that sullen hall;
By his dead smile I knew we stood in Hell.
With a thousand pains that vision's face was grained;
Yet no blood reached there from the upper ground,
And no guns thumped, or down the flues made moan.
"Strange friend," I said, "here is no cause to mourn."
"None," said the other, "save the undone years,
The hopelessness. Whatever hope is yours,
Was my life also; I went hunting wild
After the wildest beauty in the world,
Which lies not calm in eyes, or braided hair,
But mocks the steady running of the hour,
And if it grieves, grieves richlier than here.
For by my glee might many men have laughed,
And of my weeping something had been left,
Which must die now. I mean the truth untold,
The pity of war, the pity war distilled.
Now men will go content with what we spoiled,
Or, discontent, boil bloody, and be spilled.
They will be swift with swiftness of the tigress,
None will break ranks, though nations trek from progress.
Courage was mine, and I had mystery,
Wisdom was mine, and I had mastery;
To miss the march of this retreating world
Into vain citadels that are not walled.
Then when much blood had clogged their chariot wheels
I would go up and wash them from sweet wells,
Even with truths that lie too deep for taint.
I would have poured my spirit without stint
But not through wounds; not on the cess of war.
Foreheads of men have bled where no wounds were.
I am the enemy you killed, my friend.
I knew you in this dark; for so you frowned
Yesterday through me as you jabbed and killed.
I parried; but my hands were loath and cold.
Let us sleep now...."
One of the best books on WW1 was written by a German & made into a film in 1930...
All Quiet on the Western Front
I recommend everyone to read it.........
Nice touch I thought.
One of the few books I can remember reading at school.
Name: TEBBY, SAMUEL
Initials: S
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Bedfordshire Regiment
Unit Text: 1st Bn.
Age: 29
Date of Death: 15/11/1914
Service No: 6987
Additional information: Husband of Grace Tebby, of 183, Livingstone Rd., Thornton Heath, Surrey.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 31 and 33.
Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL
My Great Uncle. RIP
'Unfortunately, I can find no confirmation of the names of the
further three casualties among the staff, but one name that does
come to light is that of Fred Chick.
He appears in the 1913/14 team photograph and appears to
be a trainer judging by his dress.
Chick also appears in the casualty lists for the 13th Middlesex
Regiment. This unit was raised in Mill Hill some distance from
Charlton but was used as an overspill unit for those joining the
17th (Footballers’) Battalion of the Middlesex Regiment.
By looking into his military record further, we find him
recorded as Private 245365 Frederick Chick, Royal West Kent
Hussars attached 13th Middlesex Regiment, residing in
Camberwell, killed in action 31 August 1916, buried in
Caterpillar Valley Cemetery, Longueval, Somme.
Given his unique name, South London address and that he
serves with a regiment with no local but sporting connections,
I believe him to be the man in the pre-war team photograph.
It is also worth noting that the Royal West Kent Hussars
(Chick’s original unit) served only in Gallipoli and not France; it
is likely that he signed up for overseas service after his unit had
departed for further climes, went to join the footballers’ battalion
We will never forget.