Can someone explain to me me why this is 'closed'? Without knowing the protocol of this site too well, I hope this isn't because there was some criticism of the six fans appointed.
I'd imagine it was closed as several people from both sides of the (instant) argument decided that name calling is more important than reasoned debate.
It was closed because slagging off something fans related before it has even started, or even met, just because you don't recognise someone is pointless.
Slagging off the people who were prepared to put themselves forward is childish, as is attempting to put down fellow posters.
(i'm generalising here) but some posters seem intent to use this forum simply to rant, or to slag off or snipe at others, or to tell the world about things that offend them or they think are a disgrace, or to provoke disagreements or to post solely on non-Charlton subjects.
Quite simply, 'we' are fed up with it. I don't mind admitting i am. It wasn't how we wanted our forum to be, in fact it was due to those reasons elsewhere we decided to start this site in the first place. It makes the general tone of the forum a negative one. and it provides little enjoyment to something we devote ridiculous hours and money to.
To have something that's smooth running, we always have to take a more liberal stance to moderation, even if a lot of the time its not my own, or other admins, personal view or approach.
We have built up a really nice community of good people, and the fact i know the chairman, board members and senior members of staff read the site because they feel its the best place to get a balanced understanding of a cross-section of fans views makes us really proud, because it shows we are doing something right. There was an article about us in the programme on Saturday about the work we do for Demelza and it was fantastic recognition for us.
But the level of debate in the forum has disintegrated of late because too many either can't disagree in a civil manner, use the forum as a general sounding off board, or post stuff to provoke a reaction. We're getting up to 1,500 comments added a day, and its getting harder and harder to moderate, and when we have to spend a lot of it editing out abuse, controversial, offensive or libellous comments, our enjoyment goes, and eventually so will our committment.
This isn't directed at anyone specific, but i'm asking everyone to consider why you use the forum and what you post. Its a football site that occassional strays off into other subjects. It should not be dominated by other subjects, and it should never get to the point where people are name-calling or being childish, nor seeking to provoke reaction. Please consider before you hit the send button whether what you are adding is appropriate, or how it will be construed by others.
Otherwise, we will soon have to change things, which we desperately don't want to do. But the bottom line is although its popular at present, its both not reflective of what we want it to be, and nor do we think it will stay popular if certain trends continue.
[cite]Posted By: Steve Dowman[/cite]the type of person who gets involved in this sort of thing is generally self serving and a numpty,
Despite the fact that this might be pandering to thinner skins, perhaps a better way of putting this would be:
"I have to question the motives of people who get involved in these matters. Are they really in it to help the club or the fans or is it just a way doing something to suit their own agenda?"
Lets not just transfer the argument over to this thread.
People are entitled to an opinion but the moderators are also entitled to "moderate" the board so that the direction and the content is appropriate. Name calling just makes it look like a school ground board, not the sort that we have developed with club directors etc feeling able to come on here to have an inteligent debate about our club..
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]It was closed because slagging off something fans related before it has even started, or even met, just because you don't recognise someone is pointless.
Slagging off the people who were prepared to put themselves forward is childish, as is attempting to put down fellow posters.
(i'm generalising here) but some posters seem intent to use this forum simply to rant, or to slag off or snipe at others, or to tell the world about things that offend them or they think are a disgrace, or to provoke disagreements or to post solely on non-Charlton subjects.
Quite simply, 'we' are fed up with it. I don't mind admitting i am. It wasn't how we wanted our forum to be, in fact it was due to those reasons elsewhere we decided to start this site in the first place. It makes the general tone of the forum a negative one. and it provides little enjoyment to something we devote ridiculous hours and money to.
To have something that's smooth running, we always have to take a more liberal stance to moderation, even if a lot of the time its not my own personal view or approach.
We have built up a really nice community of good people, and the fact i know the chairman, board members and senior members of staff read the site because they feel its the best place to get a balanced understanding of a cross-section of fans views makes us really proud, because it shows we are doing something right. There was an article about us in the programme on Saturday about the work we do for Demelza and it was fantastic recognition for us.
But the level of debate in the forum has disintegrated of late because too many either can't disagree in a civil manner, use the forum as a general sounding off board, or post stuff to provoke a reaction. We're getting up to 1,500 comments added a day, and its getting harder and harder to moderate, and when we have to spend a lot of it editing out abuse, controversial, offensive or libellous comments, our enjoyment goes, and eventually so will our committment.
This isn't directed at anyone specific, but i'm asking everyone to consider why you use the forum and what you post. Its a football site that occassional strays off into other subjects. It should not be dominated by other subjects, and it should never get to the point where people are name-calling or being childish, nor seeking to provoke reaction. Please consider before you hit the send button whether what you are adding is appropriate, or how it will be construed by others.
Otherwise, we will soon have to change things, which we desperately don't want to do. But the bottom line is although its popular at present, its both not reflective of what we want it to be, and nor do we think it will stay popular if certain trends continue.
Too right, I am glad this was said........lets get back to proper Charlton, footie debates and act towards others as we would like to be acted against, life is far too short for petty arguments.
there is an agruemeny re The Forum and i think its an important one. One which we seem to have swallowed and just not put an arguement up --- we lost the Fans Director and have been given a Forum----------------regardless of who these people are i think its a huge backward step.
Great thought out response AFKA & I do agree with most of that. My post was prompted by the fact that I find Rothko a poster who falls into some of the categories touched on above. I think his comments about "stand up if you hate the arabs" that he made on Friday a lot more controversial than what S Dowman/NorthstandSteve have just made. I hope some of Rothko's opinoins that he states as fact & comments that I've referred to above as taken into consideration when posts are sunk/closed.
Great work re the Delmelza House stuff. it's something I've been meaning to contribute (I don't mean financially) to for a while. I'll never forget the Gillette Soccer Saturday piece on Deano doing his bit, which still brings a tear to my eye. Keep up the good work.
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]It was closed because slagging off something fans related before it has even started, or even met, just because you don't recognise someone is pointless.
Slagging off the people who were prepared to put themselves forward is childish, as is attempting to put down fellow posters.
(i'm generalising here) but some posters seem intent to use this forum simply to rant, or to slag off or snipe at others, or to tell the world about things that offend them or they think are a disgrace, or to provoke disagreements or to post solely on non-Charlton subjects.
Quite simply, 'we' are fed up with it. I don't mind admitting i am. It wasn't how we wanted our forum to be, in fact it was due to those reasons elsewhere we decided to start this site in the first place. It makes the general tone of the forum a negative one. and it provides little enjoyment to something we devote ridiculous hours and money to.
To have something that's smooth running, we always have to take a more liberal stance to moderation, even if a lot of the time its not my own, or other admins, personal view or approach.
We have built up a really nice community of good people, and the fact i know the chairman, board members and senior members of staff read the site because they feel its the best place to get a balanced understanding of a cross-section of fans views makes us really proud, because it shows we are doing something right. There was an article about us in the programme on Saturday about the work we do for Demelza and it was fantastic recognition for us.
But the level of debate in the forum has disintegrated of late because too many either can't disagree in a civil manner, use the forum as a general sounding off board, or post stuff to provoke a reaction. We're getting up to 1,500 comments added a day, and its getting harder and harder to moderate, and when we have to spend a lot of it editing out abuse, controversial, offensive or libellous comments, our enjoyment goes, and eventually so will our committment.
This isn't directed at anyone specific, but i'm asking everyone to consider why you use the forum and what you post. Its a football site that occassional strays off into other subjects. It should not be dominated by other subjects, and it should never get to the point where people are name-calling or being childish, nor seeking to provoke reaction. Please consider before you hit the send button whether what you are adding is appropriate, or how it will be construed by others.
Otherwise, we will soon have to change things, which we desperately don't want to do. But the bottom line is although its popular at present, its both not reflective of what we want it to be, and nor do we think it will stay popular if certain trends continue.
I think you have summed up my feelings exactly I agree entirely with you.
I have to say though AFKA the few times i've met you i swear you don't talk that much! I'm glad to see you really must feel strongly about this one ;o)
This has, up to now been a great forum where despite our own differences of opinion about the team, individual players and sometime the manager, we are drawn here because being a Charlton fan, through the bad times as well as good, has enhanced our life and its the glue that sticks us all together.
If we start criticising everything and anyone in very negative terms, calling people muppets and worse, we will lose whats been created. There is no forum anywhere better than this so lets be careful to keep it civil and as positive an experience as we can, even when things look grim on the pitch. Having a sense of humour helps. Last night the bitternesss and frustration of some led to the chant "we want Pardew out". That doesn't help anybody and certainly doesn't help the team. Much better was the stuff about "one shot". Expressions of frustration yes, funny though and disarming too. So lets keep this forum the "we only need one shot " one and try to deal with one another and clubs initiatives civilly and with a smile on our face, even in the face of adversity and if we disagree.
[cite]Posted By: stop shouting[/cite]Great thought out response AFKA & I do agree with most of that. My post was prompted by the fact that I find Rothko a poster who falls into some of the categories touched on above. I think his comments about "stand up if you hate the arabs" that he made on Friday a lot more controversial than what S Dowman/NorthstandSteve have just made. I hope some of Rothko's opinoins that he states as fact & comments that I've referred to above as taken into consideration when posts are sunk/closed.
Yes yes, all my fault.
I moderated that post myself, as I realised PDQ it was poorly and badly worded. It was intended in a bit of an up and at them first line to the thread, but if it offended you, then I'm sorry.
But hey, if I'm up there with the worst posters in the world, then so be it, I'll live
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]Yes yes, all my fault.
I moderated that post myself, as I realised PDQ it was poorly and badly worded. It was intended in a bit of an up and at them first line to the thread, but if it offended you, then I'm sorry.
But hey, if I'm up there with the worst posters in the world, then so be it, I'll live
Despite the fact that I often agree with the side of the debate you are coming from I find you a very aggressive poster. Even this apology could be read as having an "edge" to it.
I post this as I suggested that Steve Dowman might like to take a more measured approach and would like to balance that with the same suggestion to you.
I am not a moderator on this site and have no ideas of having more importance than other people - I'd just like us to keep things civilised. We are all Charlton after all.
I know I can be a bit agressive in my style, and I'll certainly taper it a bit, but sometimes debates can be firey, and can stray on to the more agreesive side of posting.
I believe its dangerous to say that everything on this forum has to be positive, why should it?
Debate and counter argument & opinion is what it is all about, personal abuse and name calling is wrong however and should not be tolerated.
I see this room as a virtual pub, you can walk around a pub and get 200 different opinions, and counter arguments.
All some people seem to want to see is happy clappy sky sports positiveness all the time, dont criticise the manager, dont criticise the board, dont criticise the squad, all mind our P's & Q's, pass the ketchup.
So in actual fact when Steve thought that Dazzler was calling him a Plastic supporter Dazzler was actually flirting with him....ooooh Steve you've pulled mate :-)
Ive said this in person to Danny on more than one occasion in person.....I dont envy you the task of moderating this board......Unfortunately a few members have taken up the keyboard warrior attitude...maybe its about time that some people were shown the door....regardless of who they are or how self important they may be. Fortunately we dont have these problems on the ADU having a smaller audience, but I have to say I wouldnt tolerate some of the behaviour thats been displayed in recent times, and to be totally honest that minority will just drive the regulars away.
[cite]Posted By: DA9[/cite]I see this room as a virtual pub, you can walk around a pub and get 200 different opinions, and counter arguments.
The pub analogy is fine up until it gets to the point where the drink takes over and people start squaring up to one another. I don't say all posts have to be positive, supporting Charlton over the years has been a nightmare on occasions, but we wouldn't be supporters if overall, we didn't take something positive from the experience. So it should be on here. If there is constant carping and running the club down, together with personal abuse, it just detracts too much from the experience in my opinion.
There are other sites where people go for a ruck, or to piss and moan. This wasn't mean't to be like that. After all the motto is Live, Love Laugh and Be Happy - which was basically the point of my first post.
I believe its dangerous to say that everything on this forum has to be positive, why should it?
Debate and counter argument & opinion is what it is all about, personal abuse and name calling is wrong however and should not be tolerated.
I see this room as a virtual pub, you can walk around a pub and get 200 different opinions, and counter arguments.
All some people seem to want to see is happy clappy sky sports positiveness all the time, dont criticise the manager, dont criticise the board, dont criticise the squad, all mind our P's & Q's, pass the ketchup.
Interesting, i've just been stewing similar points.
In answer to a couple of them, no one has said at any time everything has to be positive. Christ, the club has been free-falling for 3 years now it would be ridiculous to try and think of everything positively. Most of the vents etc i have the most problem with are normally non-Charlton related.
'Debate and counter argument & opinion is what it is all about, personal abuse and name calling is wrong however and should not be tolerated.'
that sentance says it all. It would be piss boring if everyone agreed. However, if you are going to disagree with someone's view, if you want the debate to continue it does no harm whatsoever if you word what you post in a non-confrontational way. Its common sense.
As for the virtual pub thing, i've thought about that a lot before. I alwayas agreed, now i'm not so sure. When you are in the pub, most people are in a good mood, whereas on a forum, you could be stuck at work, bored at home, whatever. Also, what you say in the pub is also different. Generally, you are talking largely to people you know personally, which isn't the case with an open forum. But the big factor to me is you put tone and facial expression into what you say, you can't easily when you write and its a lot easier to misconstrue people's intentions. What you say is also instant, and passed within seconds, whereas what is wrote, can be read 10 minutes, 10 hours, 10 days later.
Comments
Slagging off the people who were prepared to put themselves forward is childish, as is attempting to put down fellow posters.
(i'm generalising here) but some posters seem intent to use this forum simply to rant, or to slag off or snipe at others, or to tell the world about things that offend them or they think are a disgrace, or to provoke disagreements or to post solely on non-Charlton subjects.
Quite simply, 'we' are fed up with it. I don't mind admitting i am. It wasn't how we wanted our forum to be, in fact it was due to those reasons elsewhere we decided to start this site in the first place. It makes the general tone of the forum a negative one. and it provides little enjoyment to something we devote ridiculous hours and money to.
To have something that's smooth running, we always have to take a more liberal stance to moderation, even if a lot of the time its not my own, or other admins, personal view or approach.
We have built up a really nice community of good people, and the fact i know the chairman, board members and senior members of staff read the site because they feel its the best place to get a balanced understanding of a cross-section of fans views makes us really proud, because it shows we are doing something right. There was an article about us in the programme on Saturday about the work we do for Demelza and it was fantastic recognition for us.
But the level of debate in the forum has disintegrated of late because too many either can't disagree in a civil manner, use the forum as a general sounding off board, or post stuff to provoke a reaction. We're getting up to 1,500 comments added a day, and its getting harder and harder to moderate, and when we have to spend a lot of it editing out abuse, controversial, offensive or libellous comments, our enjoyment goes, and eventually so will our committment.
This isn't directed at anyone specific, but i'm asking everyone to consider why you use the forum and what you post. Its a football site that occassional strays off into other subjects. It should not be dominated by other subjects, and it should never get to the point where people are name-calling or being childish, nor seeking to provoke reaction. Please consider before you hit the send button whether what you are adding is appropriate, or how it will be construed by others.
Otherwise, we will soon have to change things, which we desperately don't want to do. But the bottom line is although its popular at present, its both not reflective of what we want it to be, and nor do we think it will stay popular if certain trends continue.
Despite the fact that this might be pandering to thinner skins, perhaps a better way of putting this would be:
"I have to question the motives of people who get involved in these matters. Are they really in it to help the club or the fans or is it just a way doing something to suit their own agenda?"
Just suggesting an alternative approach.
Lets not just transfer the argument over to this thread.
People are entitled to an opinion but the moderators are also entitled to "moderate" the board so that the direction and the content is appropriate. Name calling just makes it look like a school ground board, not the sort that we have developed with club directors etc feeling able to come on here to have an inteligent debate about our club..
Please take a look at this
http://www.charltonlife.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17&page=1#Item_2
It's a reminder of how we ask people to behave so that we can keep this forum a reasonable to place to be..
Too right, I am glad this was said........lets get back to proper Charlton, footie debates and act towards others as we would like to be acted against, life is far too short for petty arguments.
Ha ha
Great work re the Delmelza House stuff. it's something I've been meaning to contribute (I don't mean financially) to for a while. I'll never forget the Gillette Soccer Saturday piece on Deano doing his bit, which still brings a tear to my eye. Keep up the good work.
I think you have summed up my feelings exactly I agree entirely with you.
I have to say though AFKA the few times i've met you i swear you don't talk that much! I'm glad to see you really must feel strongly about this one ;o)
If we start criticising everything and anyone in very negative terms, calling people muppets and worse, we will lose whats been created. There is no forum anywhere better than this so lets be careful to keep it civil and as positive an experience as we can, even when things look grim on the pitch. Having a sense of humour helps. Last night the bitternesss and frustration of some led to the chant "we want Pardew out". That doesn't help anybody and certainly doesn't help the team. Much better was the stuff about "one shot". Expressions of frustration yes, funny though and disarming too. So lets keep this forum the "we only need one shot " one and try to deal with one another and clubs initiatives civilly and with a smile on our face, even in the face of adversity and if we disagree.
Charlton Til I Die.
Yes yes, all my fault.
I moderated that post myself, as I realised PDQ it was poorly and badly worded. It was intended in a bit of an up and at them first line to the thread, but if it offended you, then I'm sorry.
But hey, if I'm up there with the worst posters in the world, then so be it, I'll live
Despite the fact that I often agree with the side of the debate you are coming from I find you a very aggressive poster. Even this apology could be read as having an "edge" to it.
I post this as I suggested that Steve Dowman might like to take a more measured approach and would like to balance that with the same suggestion to you.
I am not a moderator on this site and have no ideas of having more importance than other people - I'd just like us to keep things civilised. We are all Charlton after all.
I know I can be a bit agressive in my style, and I'll certainly taper it a bit, but sometimes debates can be firey, and can stray on to the more agreesive side of posting.
I'll watch myself going forward
I believe its dangerous to say that everything on this forum has to be positive, why should it?
Debate and counter argument & opinion is what it is all about, personal abuse and name calling is wrong however and should not be tolerated.
I see this room as a virtual pub, you can walk around a pub and get 200 different opinions, and counter arguments.
All some people seem to want to see is happy clappy sky sports positiveness all the time, dont criticise the manager, dont criticise the board, dont criticise the squad, all mind our P's & Q's, pass the ketchup.
http://www.charltonlife.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13813&Focus=198130#Comment_198130
It would be immense if you could grab a pint whilst you were at it!
So in actual fact when Steve thought that Dazzler was calling him a Plastic supporter Dazzler was actually flirting with him....ooooh Steve you've pulled mate :-)
Yeah, come on AFKA, sort it out, virtual beer please!
The pub analogy is fine up until it gets to the point where the drink takes over and people start squaring up to one another. I don't say all posts have to be positive, supporting Charlton over the years has been a nightmare on occasions, but we wouldn't be supporters if overall, we didn't take something positive from the experience. So it should be on here. If there is constant carping and running the club down, together with personal abuse, it just detracts too much from the experience in my opinion.
There are other sites where people go for a ruck, or to piss and moan. This wasn't mean't to be like that. After all the motto is Live, Love Laugh and Be Happy - which was basically the point of my first post.
Interesting, i've just been stewing similar points.
In answer to a couple of them, no one has said at any time everything has to be positive. Christ, the club has been free-falling for 3 years now it would be ridiculous to try and think of everything positively. Most of the vents etc i have the most problem with are normally non-Charlton related.
'Debate and counter argument & opinion is what it is all about, personal abuse and name calling is wrong however and should not be tolerated.'
that sentance says it all. It would be piss boring if everyone agreed. However, if you are going to disagree with someone's view, if you want the debate to continue it does no harm whatsoever if you word what you post in a non-confrontational way. Its common sense.
As for the virtual pub thing, i've thought about that a lot before. I alwayas agreed, now i'm not so sure. When you are in the pub, most people are in a good mood, whereas on a forum, you could be stuck at work, bored at home, whatever. Also, what you say in the pub is also different. Generally, you are talking largely to people you know personally, which isn't the case with an open forum. But the big factor to me is you put tone and facial expression into what you say, you can't easily when you write and its a lot easier to misconstrue people's intentions. What you say is also instant, and passed within seconds, whereas what is wrote, can be read 10 minutes, 10 hours, 10 days later.