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Private Eye

Dunno if this has been mentioned in a previous thread, but a piece on Premier League finances in Private Eye looks a bit worrying. As an aside to a comment about how the rulers of Abu Dhabi (owners of Man City) are in good financial shape, they mention that the rulers of Dubai (bidding for Charlton; NB Zabeel is thought to be owned by the Crown Prince) definitely AREN'T. Dubai's oil is almost run out, they have over-spent and the whole country is hugely in debt. Private Eye claims Dubai will be the next Iceland, ie the whole country is teetering on bankruptcy. Dunno what truth to read in it, but I certainly trust it more than tabloid tittle-tattle. Due dilligence goes both ways, don't forget, and whilst everyone is fretting over the possibility of Zabeel pulling out, don't discount the possibility of CAFC pulling out. We could be getting ourself in the same sort of fix as West Ham otherwise!

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    Thats it cheer everyone up with more scare stories...Private Eye FFS!
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    Has been mentioned elsewhere and I'd believe the Sun before Private Eye.
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    Private eye is a sertrical newspaper.
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    surely it was just a piss-take at how rich they are in comparison to the rest of the world's financial struggles?!
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    edited October 2008
    [cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Has been mentioned elsewhere and I'd believe the Sun before Private Eye.

    I'm inclined to be more trusting purely because Private Eye hasn't made a big thing of it. Just a couple of sentences mentioned in passing in their financial column, hidden amongst a paragraph about Man City.
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    edited October 2008
    Sport and football not really a major part of PE though is it.

    As Adam said it's a satirical mag not a newspaper of record. Just need to ride this period of DD out and see what happens.

    in any case I don't think the PE would be the first people to know that Dubia oils was running out. The amount of reserves would be well known. that they are investing and diversifying into other sectors and countries would make good business sense so a plus not a minus.
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    What PR for the club now tho, we have been in every paper in england and now mags i will start to get worried when i see it mentioned in classic motorbike magazine!!!
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    Investigating further by looking at the (well-trusted) Gulf Times website, Dubai are currently refinancing $22 billion of national debt. This for a country with a population of 2.62 million, ie the same as the West Midlands. It also confirms that Dubai has never had much oil. We just think of Dubai as a major oil-producing nation because the United Arab Emirates (seven separate states) are all lumped together as one country in the statistics. I'm starting to worry myself now...
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    edited October 2008
    [cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]that they are investing and diversifying into other sectors and countries would make good business sense so a plus not a minus.

    I'm sure that's what the President of Iceland said too!
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    edited October 2008
    How much oil does Iceland have. ; - )
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    Plenty of cod liver oil i suspect - i used to be force fed that stuff urghh!
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    According to one site Dubai produces around 240,000 barrels a day. Not sure what type of oil that is but if the price is $70 that's $16.8m a day. I'm not an oil trader so someone please correct my figures and assumptions.

    So in the week since the offer was announced I think they have just about covered the price of little ol' Charlton : - )
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    I think there is a big difference between the money/debt built up in the Dubai ecomomy and businesses owned by the Dubai royal family - which Jabeel is. I understand it Dubai's oil is due to run out in 15 to 20 years. They have diversified into property and leisure in a big way in order to ensure that they have future prosperity. They also have access to the other Emirates for financial support. Lets keep a bit of perspective here. There is no way their oil based economy with the UAE is going to go tits up in the way that a cod rich country like Iceland has.
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    edited October 2008
    [cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]So in the week since the offer was announced I think they have just about covered the price of little ol' Charlton : - )

    What happens when the banks want their money back though?

    Dubai is heavily in debt, and its sources of income very finite (Dubai's oil is scheduled to run out in 2025, construction - the main part of their economy - will last about the same as they'll run out of land to build on!).

    Would you continue lending money - and maintaining the debt - of someone you knew would have no source of income (ie means to pay you back) in a mere 17 years time. Put it this way, they won't be getting any 25 year mortgages any time soon!

    Hence their search for investments overseas. That's EXACTLY what Iceland did and look what happened there. (Your "Iceland has no oil" is a total misnomer as the hydro- and geothermal-power generation industry in Iceland will soon overtake Dubai in terms of percentage of economy; less than 6% of Dubai's economy comes from sources of energy ie oil and gas).

    Still, if they can buy us Ben Watson before they go bust, I'll be happy.
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    PE have been investigating football finances - along with the myriad of dodgy characters involved with the game for several years.

    For some reason, Hislop has a particular interest in Foolham ;-)

    There have been some interesting insights into the financing of Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool, Fulham, Man City, Liverpool, Sunderland and MK Dons.
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    edited October 2008
    Let me assure everyone that the Maktoums and Dubai as well is minted...no need to worry at all.

    I´ll try to explain, yes if Dubai was a single country you might have cause for concerns as the Maktoums thru their SWF:s and controlled companies got around $48bn in debts but around $300bn in assets.
    The problem is that they invest mostly in real estate and that ties up a lot of their capital while they still need to invest heavily in infrastructure, water plants etc etc so they simply don´t have the cashflow of say Abu Dhabi who mainly spend their surplus money..i.e Dubai borrow to invest
    But fact is that Dubai and Abu Dhabi still got a somewhat boomish real estate sector (a house bought for £1m last Xmas is still worth £1m as the credit crunch simply meant that the usual 2-4% price rise every month have disappeared) just dampened by the credit worries.

    But fact is that Dubai is a part of the UAE meaning that Dubai is financially protected by Abu Dhabi who could wipe out their debts by simply using half of their surplus cash this year, and they will if they have to as Dubai is just down the road (80 miles or so) and the Abu Dhabi movers and shakers have also invested billions in Dubai real estate.

    You might say that it takes around five years before a property development in Dubai start showing a positive cashflow so they could just slow down a bit and stop borrowing altogether.
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    edited October 2008
    Dubai is part of the UAE

    Wiki entry

    The emirates' current ruler, Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum (the father of the head of Jabeel) is also Prime Minister and Vice President of UAE which includes Abu Dhabi. There is no way in the world that these guys are going to run out of dosh any time soon.

    Can we put the toys back in the pram now please?
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    edited October 2008
    Thanks MCFC, you've fleshed it out more than I did. These people are seriously rich - end of. To compare them with Iceland is a joke. Iceland is a tiny country without direct attachments to any other country. Thats why they haverecently negotiated a huge loan from the Russki's for leasing an airbase, because of their financial isolation. They clearly traded way beyond their resources and have got well and truely shafted. Dubai is totally different.
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    [cite]Posted By: bingaddick[/cite]Thanks MCFC, you've fleshed it out more than I did. These people are seriously rich - end of.

    No problems..the internal relationships between the different emirates are rather complicated, you can say that Abu Dhabi and Dubai are the two powerhouses, Abu Dhabi because they are very much the biggest and richest emirate and Dubai because it´s the economic centre of the region.
    Hence the sort of powersharing agreement between the two as both Emirs got veto rights in regards to federal matters while of course ruling their own emirates without outside influence.

    If you stretch it a bit you can say that Abu Dhabi got the Oil and the military power while Dubai provides trade and entertainment.
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    Hi MCFC, many thanks for the clarification. One thing I am still unaware of is exactly how linked the seven Emirates are. What is to stop Abu Dhabi (the one with the oil!) going alone. Not saying it will, but as an English resident I'm astonished we haven't got shot of Scotland, Wales and/or the North of Ireland way before now. No offence to those from there, but they lose money and are a drain on the UK taxpayer. Dubai sounds like a drain on Abu Dhabi. As far as I understand it would be fairly easy for the English government to pull out of Scotland or Wales or wherever. Can't the UAE quite easily split up into seven Emirates in the same way? Or is everything tied up in the same bank/finance structure? I'm not playing Devil's Advocate, just asking 'cause I don't know. Cheers.
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    edited October 2008
    [cite]Posted By: floydandharvey[/cite]Hi MCFC, many thanks for the clarification. One thing I am still unaware of is exactly how linked the seven Emirates are. What is to stop Abu Dhabi (the one with the oil!) going alone. Not saying it will, but as an English resident I'm astonished we haven't got shot of Scotland, Wales and/or the North of Ireland way before now. No offence to those from there, but they lose money and are a drain on the UK taxpayer. Dubai sounds like a drain on Abu Dhabi. As far as I understand it would be fairly easy for the English government to pull out of Scotland or Wales or wherever. Can't the UAE quite easily split up into seven Emirates in the same way? Or is everything tied up in the same bank/finance structure? I'm not playing Devil's Advocate, just asking 'cause I don't know. Cheers.

    There is nothing that would really stop any emirate from going it alone apart from the same factors that tied them together in the first place, common tribal background dating back to the Bani Yas tribe that settled in the region, fear of their much bigger neighbours (Iran, Saudi and even Oman) intermarriage between the ruling families and the costs of going it alone of course.

    Dubai ain´t really a drain on Abu Dhabi financially even if the Abu Dhabi emir have a tradition of handing out monetary grants as "gifts" to his fellow emirs on a regular basis in return for being the top man (President) of the UAE.
    The federal expenditures are mostly military and is money Abu Dhabi would spend anyway I guess.
    The economies are sort of tied up with each other because of the common currency and central bank (all backed up by the oil wealth of Abu Dhabi) but the main thing as I see it is that they service the needs of each other i.e Dubai is providing a place for Abu Dhabi to invest money.
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    [cite]Posted By: floydandharvey[/cite]

    Hence their search for investments overseas. That's EXACTLY what Iceland did and look what happened there. (Your "Iceland has no oil" is a total misnomer as the hydro- and geothermal-power generation industry in Iceland will soon overtake Dubai in terms of percentage of economy; less than 6% of Dubai's economy comes from sources of energy ie oil and gas).

    Still, if they can buy us Ben Watson before they go bust, I'll be happy.


    Really interesting debate and good points Floyd.

    If oil and gas is only 6% of the Dubia economy then I would say that means that they are not overly reliant on it to continue past the next 20 years and have already diversified and invested the income from oil in other money generating sectors.

    And I'd take Ben Watson as well and a few more of that ilk. Good CCC players and fringe players from the Prem who have down it here before plus better quality loans from top four clubs.

    And if we have 20 years of feast and then after it is back to famine I'll take that. I'll most be likely be dolaly by then anyway and will at least have some good times to look back on ala Nottm Forest or Spurs ; - )
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