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Loanees

Addickson's GodAddickson's God
edited October 2008 in General Charlton
Last season we got a big loanee from a Prem side a playing right back, who was slow, iffy defensively and poor going forward. Now we have another, together with a lightweight winger and an OK but limited centre-half, just like last year. If we're going to finish mid table or flirt with the drop, I'd rather pack the loanees back home and use our own.

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    SenpaiSenpai
    I'm in agreement. I'm not too keen on loanees coming in. It doesn't help with the development of our own players who either go out on loans themselves or rot in the reserves, which ultimately ends up them leaving the club and then we still have to find another replacement, if not two to replace the loanee who then returns to his parent club. The loanees also don't have as much enthusiasm when coming from a bigger club or higher division as most are happy to sit on their big wages and have no loyalty for their 'new' club.
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    Athletico CharltonAthletico Charlton
    I dont remember anyone being upset with us having Costa in on loan, or many many others before him. Therefore I wonder, is it
    a) that we are bringing in the wrong players - Cranie & Primus both have very good reputations so would seem unlikely although not impossible, or
    b) that it is not the loanees fault but more the fact we have a manager that is unable to get the best out of almost any of our players be they loanees or squad players at the moment.
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    SaladSalad
    I agree with re: short term loans, but we needed defensive cover.
    Bouazza should be much better than he has been so far, we have him for the season, just like Carson who became supporters player of the year - hopefully he will still turn out to have been a valuable acquisition.
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    North Lower NeilNorth Lower Neil
    [cite]Posted By: valleyman[/cite]
    b) that it is not the loanees fault but more the fact we have a manager that is unable to get the best out of almost any of our players be they loanees or squad players at the moment.

    I can't help but agree with that at the moment, unfortunately.
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    BigRedEvilBigRedEvil
    I think Bouazza has been 10x more effective than Thomas would ever have been so far. Think he tries hard, our long ball game we play doesn't suit him, nor alot of our players. Also can take the ball past his man, get his crosses in and not afriad to have a shot. Good signing imo.

    Primus looks solid.

    Cranie looks poor.
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    Barn Door VarneyBarn Door Varney
    If we are going to have player on loan then surely they should be better that anything we have already.

    I can accept that we needed Bouazza with Thomas going but I really can't understand why Pardew has played Primus or Crainie before Semedo. With games Primus will get sharper but Crainie's performances have certainly been no better than Semedos.
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    MortimericianMortimerician
    Have you actually seen Semedo playing at centre back in a competitive match or is this total guesswork? He's quite small for a modern centreback for me although I do like him as a player. In any case we need cover with Fortune out we're down to two out and out centre backs and it's probably the position most likely to pick up suspensions so it's not a smart strategy.

    The thing with all this anti-loanee sentiment is that if we didn't have them and our squad players screwed up the exact same people would be whining that we should have got loans in. Fact.
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    Chris_from_SidcupChris_from_Sidcup
    [cite]Posted By: BigRedEvil[/cite]I think Bouazza has been 10x more effective than Thomas would ever have been so far. Think he tries hard, our long ball game we play doesn't suit him, nor alot of our players. Also can take the ball past his man, get his crosses in and not afriad to have a shot. Good signing imo.

    Primus looks solid.

    Cranie looks poor.


    I agree with all of that. Although i think Cranie improved 2nd half against Palace. I also believe his best position is centre back rather than full back so maybe we're being harsh on him. Before he broke his leg at QPR on loan he was playing really well at centre back for them.
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    LoOkOuTLoOkOuT
    [cite]Posted By: Mortimerician[/cite]The thing with all this anti-loanee sentiment is that if we didn't have them and our squad players screwed up the exact same people would be whining that we should have got loans in. Fact.

    Bingo!
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    kinveachyaddickkinveachyaddick
    Cranie looks okay defensively but offers nothing going forward. Did he cross the half-way line on Tuesday?

    If he plays, it should be as a centre-half as stated above
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    C_f_WC_f_W
    [cite]Posted By: North Lower Neil[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: valleyman[/cite]
    b) that it is not the loanees fault but more the fact we have a manager that is unable to get the best out of almost any of our players be they loanees or squad players at the moment.

    I can't help but agree with that at the moment, unfortunately.
    Likewise
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    southamptonaddicksouthamptonaddick
    edited October 2008
    I have to say Cranie probably looked better in the second half at palarse because he was on the other side of the pitch and we couldn't see him. As I stated on another thread that was the first time I had seen Cranie and I hope it was the last. If I was Moo2 I would be banging on Pardews door and asking for a transfer cause if he thinks Cranie is better than Moo2 then Moo2 might as well leave.

    The idea of bringing loanees in is that they are better than what you've got or as cover for your own players. Cranie is not better than Moo2 (or Semedo) and if he was on the bench I could understand it. I'm not Fortunes biggest fan but he has started the season well but I wonder when he fit again if he'll get his place back. At the moment I think not. It seems Pardew will play the loan players no matter what.
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    Chris_from_SidcupChris_from_Sidcup
    [cite]Posted By: southamptonaddick[/cite]I have to say Cranie probably looked better in the second half at palarse because he was on the other side of the pitch and we couldn't see him. As I stated on another thread that was the first time I had seen Cranie and I hope it was the last. If I was Moo2 I would be banging on Pardews door and asking for a transfer cause if he thinks Cranie is better than Moo2 then Moo2 might as well leave.


    Moo2 has obviously done something wrong as last year he was kept out by Halford who was also rubbish
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    Barn Door VarneyBarn Door Varney
    [quote][cite]Posted By: Mortimerician[/cite]Have you actually seen Semedo playing at centre back in a competitive match or is this total guesswork? He's quite small for a modern centreback for me although I do like him as a player. In any case we need cover with Fortune out we're down to two out and out centre backs and it's probably the position most likely to pick up suspensions so it's not a smart strategy.

    The thing with all this anti-loanee sentiment is that if we didn't have them and our squad players screwed up the exact same people would be whining that we should have got loans in. Fact.[/quote]

    In fairness, no I haven't seen him at centre half but considering that was his position when we bought him I assume that he can play there. As for his size, Chris Perry wasn't the tallest but was still a very good defender.

    I accept that we need to have some loan players in the squad and I'm not anti-loanee. My point is that Semedo was doing a good job at right back yet as soon as Crainie comes in, Semedo is droped to make way for him. I can't see how that helps team moral especally as Crainie, on the performances i've seen, isn't any better.
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    TELTEL
    Read what Pardew said about Semedo last week...what a wonderful player, lovely attitude, everyone loves him and he will nail down a place in the team soon......he has...he has been nailed to the subs bench. He was an under 21 CB for Portugal by the way...no he isnt massive, bu he is a damn fine player. Moo2 comments above I agree......but rather than a tiff I just dont think Pardew rates him.
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    southamptonaddicksouthamptonaddick
    My feelings exactly Chris. It seems Pardew dosen't rate Moo2 in the slightest and will only play him if theres no one else.
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    Henry IrvingHenry Irving
    Did no one notice who scored the goal for Palace?
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    MortimericianMortimerician
    [cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Did no one notice who scored the goal for Palace?
    :-) Colin said in the press conf that he was their best player against Ipswich, too. You can't go wrong with a big lumpy target man in this league and I would have loved it if we'd signed him.
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    KillersBeardKillersBeard
    Unfortunately I doubt if there is a club in the country that would be happy to loan you a player just to sit on the bench, as they could do that at there own club.

    Therefore I suppose the issue is to pick the quality of loan player that benefits your team and that is where the arguments start. A fit Primus would perhaps be seen as many to be better than Fortune. Cranie as a regular England U21 right back could also be seen at least on paper to be better than Moo2, but admittedly not so far in reality.

    Bouazza? Well given the crowd's reaction last season to Thomas and this season to Sam, it's not only the manager who thought we needed better in wide positions and following Reading we all thought we had it.

    As for Semedo, using him as cover is all well and good, but I still think he needs to play central midfield and I would have him as the holding player in front of the back four all day long.
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    Friend Or DefoeFriend Or Defoe
    Some guy from West Brom...

    Did you notice that after they scored the announcer called his first name so that the crowd could shout how his Surname? Mmmm....
    [cite]Posted By: C_f_W[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: North Lower Neil[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: valleyman[/cite]
    b) that it is not the loanees fault but more the fact we have a manager that is unable to get the best out of almost any of our players be they loanees or squad players at the moment.

    I can't help but agree with that at the moment, unfortunately.
    Likewise
    Me four, Sinclair did quite well at Palace...
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    Dazzler21Dazzler21
    [cite]Posted By: BigRedEvil[/cite]I think Bouazza has been 10x more effective than Thomas would ever have been so far. Think he tries hard, our long ball game we play doesn't suit him, nor alot of our players. Also can take the ball past his man, get his crosses in and not afriad to have a shot. Good signing imo.

    Primus looks solid.

    Cranie looks poor.
    [cite]Posted By: LoOkOuT[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Mortimerician[/cite]The thing with all this anti-loanee sentiment is that if we didn't have them and our squad players screwed up the exact same people would be whining that we should have got loans in. Fact.

    Bingo!

    Was his namo... B-i-n-g-o..............

    I agree These players are all good enough but are:
    A. Not being utilised to optimise their performances.
    B. Not being motivated.
    C. Under the influence they are now screwed under Pards!
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