I would say that this was announced sometime ago (end of last season I believe) and I did comment on it then. Have I missed something else that has brought this to the fore?
The legal aspect is one factor although not the only reason. I could perhaps have stayed on another year and postponed the abolition but I had always said I would serve for two years only. I also feel it would have been wrong of me to have been elected for two years and then serve for longer.
There was a debate at board level over a period of 3 or so months about retaining the role and/or some form of supporter representation. There were a range of views but it was agreed that while there would no longer be an elected director there should still be representation in the form of the fans forum part of which will be elected. There will also be, at my request, representation for CASDA and the overseas supporters' groups as I feel that these are groups that are both defined and have particular interests/views that should be listened to.
In some ways the forum, with more members, will have the advantage of not being personified around one individual as has been the case with the supporters' director. What fans lose is the direct input at board meetings but what the forum members will have is the ability to comment freely in public about any issues, something a company director can not do.
The plan is for the forum to meet with PLC directors, the CEO and others four times a year and have access to them in between. How it works will, just as with the SD role, depend on the people involved. I hope that I have at least set an agenda for as much communication and contact as possible that the new forum members will follow.
As I've said before I'm proud of what I have achieved, embarrassed about the mistakes I made and frustrated about the things I haven't been able to do or have only got half done.
On some of the other points raised. Yes the turn out was low last time but it was considerably up from the time before (the 4th placed candidate would have won the time before) and I believe it would have increased again both because I raised the profile (love me or hate me I did that) of the role and just because things are not as cosy as they were when I was elected.
I would also say that the turn out in local council elections is often very poor but that is not an argument for abolishing local govt.
Other directors do read this board - Richard Murray once called me Henry Irving - which is great and some even post on here but that is not the same. They do not, and they are quite entitled not to do so, comment on or reply to questions or make themselves available if people have issues or requests as directors.
So there will be 3 elected forum members one from each stand. Start thinking about it. If you think you will be chatting over team tactics with Pards forget it (I'll tell you the story about Pardew and the corners one day) or that it is all high power stuff and swanning around the boardroom then you will be in for a surprise. But it is great fun and a real eye opener to how the club works and just how hard the club works. You could make a difference.
Henners not to split hairs but surely what the fans lose is a single directly elected figure who they can come to with issues, a forum is not the same.. having one from each stand is entirely unnecessary in my view and is clearly a hard fought compromise to maintain any kind of representation from a Board who it seems would prefer no fan representation at all.
I find this move quite disappointing and somewhat puzzling by the club, and I don't really understand why the Directors were so against it in the first place. It fairly or unfairly suggests a fear reaction to the possibility of someone being elected who doesn't fit the mould.
This definitely reflects poorly on the image of the club in my view and is a great shame, it detracts from the many things that made our club a model for other clubs to follow.
[cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]You're like Barack Obama with your speeches!
I'll take that as a compliment.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]Henners not to split hairs but surely what the fans lose is a single directly elected figure who they can come to with issues, a forum is not the same.. having one from each stand is entirely unnecessary in my view and is clearly a hard fought compromise to maintain any kind of representation from a Board who it seems would prefer no fan representation at all.
Yes, but now they'll have three (more if you count the overseas people) to contact. One of the problems I found was that if I didn't agree with someone then "I wasn't doing my job of representing the fans" as if I had to back any idea regardless.
At least this way we'll have more then one viewpoint and more then one person.
And they will be able to raise issues
Well after me they knew anyone else would be a disappointment. OK, OK I'm joking but yes there may have been an element of that but that is really for the other directors to comment on not me. They could have scrapped the SD when the VIP 10 years were up but kept it going
According to you the club has had a long while to consider this new forum and how it might work. But as far as I'm aware it isn't imminent.
Is there not a risk that fans might regard the apparent lack of urgency with which it is being established as an indication of the board's attitude towards it?
I'll second what AFKA has said, and I will add that Ive found the directors to be quite approachable types in any case and very open and honest. So if you have any serious issues or sensible suggestions why not just email them? I aslo think the proposal for members from each stand sounds quite workable and will give a good representation of what people need in each stand. Just my opinion for what its worth, not looking for a dogfight in any way Razil :-)
me neither mate, just can't see really what was wrong with the status quo (apart from Henry's record collection which is allegedly full of said artistes)... unless the Board were afraid of something or are becoming less open and approachable than they once were, which is all the more puzzling. It does remind me a little of when the Labour party got rid of the power of Conference in favour of Policy Forums, but perhaps as Rothko says I'm just becoming paranoid (generally)
According to you the club has had a long while to consider this new forum and how it might work. But as far as I'm aware it isn't imminent.
Is there not a risk that fans might regard the apparent lack of urgency with which it is being established as an indication of the board's attitude towards it?
Perhaps but others might consider that during that time there was a change of CEO and a major amount of transfer activity and cost cutting to be completed.
As for not imminent I'd expect the process to start once the transfer window has closed. If the build up had been launched already then fans might regard that as an apparent distraction from transfer dealings.
I am very disappointed that the post has been abolished, as I think it did help us to stand out from other clubs and was proof of the respect the board had for fans' opinions. Whilst I never had need to use it specifically to raise any issues, it was good to know it was there if that need arose. I always voted in the elections.
A forum is better than nothing but is definitely not the same - I can imagine it becoming a classic 'committee' - at best a talking shop where not a lot gets done, at worst a group divided by petty infighting. (I've been on a few committees in my lifetime, and have yet to experience anything different.)
Airman Brown's point is particularly telling - for someone inside the club to have concerns about the lack of urgency over the establishment of a forum should ring big alarm bells for all of us. There have been many signs of a shift in power and culture at the top of our club, and the abolition of this role and lack of pace in replacing it is a worrying one.
My problem with the current situation is that a director with no real executive powers, isn't paid and well down the pecking order (no offence Ben) has to take a Disproportionate amount of work into keep the supporters happy. No other director is expected to be on all the messageboards, respond to the emails, and effectively case work a load of stuff.
Spliting it 4-6 ways across the stands seems sensible. It's a better way to reflect the massive differences between the types of people in the stands, in CADSA and overseas.
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]My problem with the current situation is that a director with no real executive powers, isn't paid and well down the pecking order (no offence Ben) has to take a Disproportionate amount of work into keep the supporters happy. No other director is expected to be on all the messageboards, respond to the emails, and effectively case work a load of stuff.
Spliting it 4-6 ways across the stands seems sensible. It's a better way to reflect the massive differences between the types of people in the stands, in CADSA and overseas.
na theres plenty who would do such a role without pay, other Directors own the club so thats a different kettle of fish entirely and not a fair comparison
The workload issue is the one for me, your basically the outlet for 20,000 peoples complaints, gripes and personal issues with the club. You can't simply tell people to go away, so you end up with a massive load of casework which the SD (not the club) is responisble for, and then all the back and forth of that.
It seems a very time intensive role for one person, better to manage that load across different people, with differing skills and outlooks.
I read Airmans comments as trying to water down the impact of it not happening at present, or in other words, stop talking about it as it's shedding bad light on the club, either that or read between the lines "they dont care much for it"
forgive me if I'm wrong Airman, just the way I read it.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]Weegie I agree mate, it pretty much shows they aren't taking supporter representation seriously any more which is why they got rid in the first place.
Hang about. This is like the "why aren't the club doing anything in the transfer market, I've seen no rumours in the paper this week" stuff that some people come out with
I discussed this with the CEO before I went away and we mapped out a timetable for after the window closes. Sorry it's not as quick as you would all have liked.
I tried to speak to Steve Waggott today but his PA (hard woman she is) wouldn't let me. Some rubbish about out signing players etc etc, flights to Rio and Madrid, blah, blah, blah
Anyway I be the first to say it. Vote Razil for someone who won't sit on the fence.
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]My problem with the current situation is that a director with no real executive powers, isn't paid and well down the pecking order (no offence Ben) has to take a Disproportionate amount of work into keep the supporters happy. No other director is expected to be on all the messageboards, respond to the emails, and effectively case work a load of stuff.
Spliting it 4-6 ways across the stands seems sensible. It's a better way to reflect the massive differences between the types of people in the stands, in CADSA and overseas.
I agree that the job as SD isn't that well defined and comes with no practical or executive power, which limits its effectiveness - isn't it the case that a forum consisting of members from each Stand will be exactly the same and perhaps worse in that it'll become a committee?
We should bear in mind that the directors do attend supporter's club events on a regular basis (eg the recent City Addicks and the forthcoming Bromley SC) and are quite approachable/open. Perhaps there could be a regular Q&A forum at the Valley itself hosted by someone such as Ben where questions from the audience (and perhaps those of us from further afield) can be put to the directors/the Stadium manager and answered?
IMHO there should be a fans forum AND those Q & A sessions AND a bloggers night AND Directors/managers doing on-line Q & As on Charlton Life (sort it out AFKA!) AND...............
The problem with the big Q & A sessions (and I've chaired plenty down the years) is that it become difficult to discuss issues outside of the playing side as that is what is of most immediate interest to most fans (and me as well to be honest) so locks on disabled toilets or overseas radio coverage get missed out. Also they are public Q & As so don't lend themselves to debate and planning.
They are good and the more the merrier but the forum should be a meeting with an agenda for fans mundane but very important issues such as pricing, travel, merchandise, facilities, safety as well as input on the future direction of the club and a chance for the board to discuss ideas, plans etc with fans informally. (plus 10 mins at the end for gossip on who we are selling/signing)
Who remembers the people asking questions about potholes in the car park at the PLCs EGM.
VERY BIG LOL Henners, I never play devils advocate you know that
;)
neither have any intention of standing for office - partly cos no one would vote for me, but mainly cos I couldn't bitch and moan so much.. anyway I thought Rothko was the 'shoe in'
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]Hmm sounds like your still leaving it open there though?
I want to know which camp henners was in before he started in the role, rose tinted or moaners???
Glass half full always. I want to enjoy supporting Charlton
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]Nothings open, I'm not that interested in having to be polite to serial moaners or interested in the real processy type things the SD role entails.
Also the constant snide comments on this site and others would put most sensible people off.
just as well it's a forum then and you can be as rude as you like.
Vote Rothko for the North
Vote Large Addick for the East
Vote Soundsasa£ for the West
Comments
I only got back last night and hadn't seen this.
Thanks everyone for the kind comments.
I would say that this was announced sometime ago (end of last season I believe) and I did comment on it then. Have I missed something else that has brought this to the fore?
The legal aspect is one factor although not the only reason. I could perhaps have stayed on another year and postponed the abolition but I had always said I would serve for two years only. I also feel it would have been wrong of me to have been elected for two years and then serve for longer.
There was a debate at board level over a period of 3 or so months about retaining the role and/or some form of supporter representation. There were a range of views but it was agreed that while there would no longer be an elected director there should still be representation in the form of the fans forum part of which will be elected. There will also be, at my request, representation for CASDA and the overseas supporters' groups as I feel that these are groups that are both defined and have particular interests/views that should be listened to.
In some ways the forum, with more members, will have the advantage of not being personified around one individual as has been the case with the supporters' director. What fans lose is the direct input at board meetings but what the forum members will have is the ability to comment freely in public about any issues, something a company director can not do.
The plan is for the forum to meet with PLC directors, the CEO and others four times a year and have access to them in between. How it works will, just as with the SD role, depend on the people involved. I hope that I have at least set an agenda for as much communication and contact as possible that the new forum members will follow.
As I've said before I'm proud of what I have achieved, embarrassed about the mistakes I made and frustrated about the things I haven't been able to do or have only got half done.
On some of the other points raised. Yes the turn out was low last time but it was considerably up from the time before (the 4th placed candidate would have won the time before) and I believe it would have increased again both because I raised the profile (love me or hate me I did that) of the role and just because things are not as cosy as they were when I was elected.
I would also say that the turn out in local council elections is often very poor but that is not an argument for abolishing local govt.
Other directors do read this board - Richard Murray once called me Henry Irving - which is great and some even post on here but that is not the same. They do not, and they are quite entitled not to do so, comment on or reply to questions or make themselves available if people have issues or requests as directors.
So there will be 3 elected forum members one from each stand. Start thinking about it. If you think you will be chatting over team tactics with Pards forget it (I'll tell you the story about Pardew and the corners one day) or that it is all high power stuff and swanning around the boardroom then you will be in for a surprise. But it is great fun and a real eye opener to how the club works and just how hard the club works. You could make a difference.
I find this move quite disappointing and somewhat puzzling by the club, and I don't really understand why the Directors were so against it in the first place. It fairly or unfairly suggests a fear reaction to the possibility of someone being elected who doesn't fit the mould.
This definitely reflects poorly on the image of the club in my view and is a great shame, it detracts from the many things that made our club a model for other clubs to follow.
Not that they are worth a jot !!!
I'll take that as a compliment.
Well after me they knew anyone else would be a disappointment. OK, OK I'm joking but yes there may have been an element of that but that is really for the other directors to comment on not me. They could have scrapped the SD when the VIP 10 years were up but kept it going
According to you the club has had a long while to consider this new forum and how it might work. But as far as I'm aware it isn't imminent.
Is there not a risk that fans might regard the apparent lack of urgency with which it is being established as an indication of the board's attitude towards it?
Henry,
According to you the club has had a long while to consider this new forum and how it might work. But as far as I'm aware it isn't imminent.
Is there not a risk that fans might regard the apparent lack of urgency with which it is being established as an indication of the board's attitude towards it?
Perhaps but others might consider that during that time there was a change of CEO and a major amount of transfer activity and cost cutting to be completed.
As for not imminent I'd expect the process to start once the transfer window has closed. If the build up had been launched already then fans might regard that as an apparent distraction from transfer dealings.
A forum is better than nothing but is definitely not the same - I can imagine it becoming a classic 'committee' - at best a talking shop where not a lot gets done, at worst a group divided by petty infighting. (I've been on a few committees in my lifetime, and have yet to experience anything different.)
Airman Brown's point is particularly telling - for someone inside the club to have concerns about the lack of urgency over the establishment of a forum should ring big alarm bells for all of us. There have been many signs of a shift in power and culture at the top of our club, and the abolition of this role and lack of pace in replacing it is a worrying one.
Spliting it 4-6 ways across the stands seems sensible. It's a better way to reflect the massive differences between the types of people in the stands, in CADSA and overseas.
No offence taken and spot on.
It seems a very time intensive role for one person, better to manage that load across different people, with differing skills and outlooks.
forgive me if I'm wrong Airman, just the way I read it.
Hang about. This is like the "why aren't the club doing anything in the transfer market, I've seen no rumours in the paper this week" stuff that some people come out with
I discussed this with the CEO before I went away and we mapped out a timetable for after the window closes. Sorry it's not as quick as you would all have liked.
I tried to speak to Steve Waggott today but his PA (hard woman she is) wouldn't let me. Some rubbish about out signing players etc etc, flights to Rio and Madrid, blah, blah, blah
Anyway I be the first to say it. Vote Razil for someone who won't sit on the fence.
I agree that the job as SD isn't that well defined and comes with no practical or executive power, which limits its effectiveness - isn't it the case that a forum consisting of members from each Stand will be exactly the same and perhaps worse in that it'll become a committee?
We should bear in mind that the directors do attend supporter's club events on a regular basis (eg the recent City Addicks and the forthcoming Bromley SC) and are quite approachable/open. Perhaps there could be a regular Q&A forum at the Valley itself hosted by someone such as Ben where questions from the audience (and perhaps those of us from further afield) can be put to the directors/the Stadium manager and answered?
IMHO there should be a fans forum AND those Q & A sessions AND a bloggers night AND Directors/managers doing on-line Q & As on Charlton Life (sort it out AFKA!) AND...............
The problem with the big Q & A sessions (and I've chaired plenty down the years) is that it become difficult to discuss issues outside of the playing side as that is what is of most immediate interest to most fans (and me as well to be honest) so locks on disabled toilets or overseas radio coverage get missed out. Also they are public Q & As so don't lend themselves to debate and planning.
They are good and the more the merrier but the forum should be a meeting with an agenda for fans mundane but very important issues such as pricing, travel, merchandise, facilities, safety as well as input on the future direction of the club and a chance for the board to discuss ideas, plans etc with fans informally. (plus 10 mins at the end for gossip on who we are selling/signing)
Who remembers the people asking questions about potholes in the car park at the PLCs EGM.
;)
neither have any intention of standing for office - partly cos no one would vote for me, but mainly cos I couldn't bitch and moan so much.. anyway I thought Rothko was the 'shoe in'
;)
I want to know which camp henners was in before he started in the role, rose tinted or moaners???
Also the constant snide comments on this site and others would put most sensible people off.
Glass half full always. I want to enjoy supporting Charlton
just as well it's a forum then and you can be as rude as you like.
Vote Rothko for the North
Vote Large Addick for the East
Vote Soundsasa£ for the West