Does anyone know the actual official realease date, my boy goes away 19th July with his mother and will celebrate his birthday while out there, want to get it for him before if possible.
[cite]Posted By: pete_tong1[/cite]Is it me or does CAFC seem to have given up. the spark seems to of gone from the club.
I know what you mean. I'm organising a 5-a-side tournament for the boys of Wilmington Grammar School and I approached Charlton to see if they wanted to be involved but they turned me down flat. I approached Goals in Dartford and they have agreed to run the whole thing for nothing and they're throwing in medals, balls and goody bags for the boys. I went down to Goals last night to finalise the arrangements and the manager down there told me that Charlton were really struggling to attract the numbers that they used to on their community scheme.It's all going to pot, I tell thee...
one to bring up at the City Addicks meeting perhaps?
It certainly isnt the same club it was 5 years ago. I do hope they don't adopt commericlism too much and lose the soul of the club, the link with the fans/board has been a very uniqie one although I think it may be on the wane recently.
Still we have a new beginning so lets see where it goes.
I think the launch is in July but I don't have any firm dates. That Mike Rea never tells me nothing : - )
[cite]Posted By: pete_tong1[/cite]Is it me or does CAFC seem to have given up. the spark seems to of gone from the club.
Personally I wouldn't blame some of the people at the club for giving up reading some of the crap that comes on here and some of the abusive e-mails and letters they get but as far as I can tell they haven't given up at all.
We just raised £14.8m in a bond issue. Sounds like those directors haven't given up.
We've sold getting on for 14k STs and it's only June. Doesn't sound like the fans have given up.
We've got a new CEO full of ideas and energy who had to get the job over two existing Championship CEOs. He's not giving up anytime soon as far as I can see.
The Community Schemes go from strength to strength, winning national awards and getting increased funding so they can expand their operations.
We got a new sponsor when I hear that at least three premier clubs are struggling to get new deals. The commercial team haven't given up.
And we've nearly got rid of that Jonah of a Supporters' Director. Anyone else notice that it all went downhill when he started.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]I think the launch is in July but I don't have any firm dates. That Mike Rea never tells me nothing : - )
[cite]Posted By: pete_tong1[/cite]Is it me or does CAFC seem to have given up. the spark seems to of gone from the club.
Personally I wouldn't blame some of the people at the club for giving up reading some of the crap that comes on here and some of the abusive e-mails and letters they get but as far as I can tell they haven't given up at all.
We just raised £14.8m in a bond issue. Sounds like those directors haven't given up.
We've sold getting on for 14k STs and it's only June. Doesn't sound like the fans have given up.
We've got a new CEO full of ideas and energy who had to get the job over two existing Championship CEOs. He's not giving up anytime soon as far as I can see.
The Community Schemes go from strength to strength, winning national awards and getting increased funding so they can expand their operations.
We got a new sponsor when I hear that at least three premier clubs are struggling to get new deals. The commercial team haven't given up.
And we've nearly got rid of that Jonah of a Supporters' Director. Anyone else notice that it all went downhill when he started.
I'm sure some supporters don't fully value Henry's dedication to the role of Supporters' Director.
We needed Henry to inspire the Board to make the decisions that led to relegation and the depths of despair, in order to make us appreciate how far the club had come, to show how disatisfied we'd become with Curbs' achievements and how we'd no longer settle for midtable mediocraty.
Without Henry's influence, the club could have never striven to the next level - the one below.
And as Henry himself has pointed out, with his imminent departure there is a rennaissance in the club - and once again we can look towards gaining promotion to the promised land of Premiership midtable obscurity. ;o)
Seriously ...... we ought to give a big hand for the time & commitment that Henry has given to his role during the past 2 years - and his contribution on this board, whether you've agreed with him or not, for the liasons and insights provided into the running of the club behind the scenes.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]heaven knows what will happen without your insight/inside view to keep us on the straight and narrow..
when did I turn into a kiss arse...?
You always have been or so I hear but what you do at the weekends is nothing to do with me ; - )
Thing is very little of that is "inside view" other than the other clubs not getting sponsors and that is not CAFC info anyway. The bond issue, the ST, the new CEO is all common knowledge and the two other Championship CEOs came out at the Bloggers night.
I don't think anyone else has noticed the correlation between the Supporters' Director and relegation yet so let's not tell them. Just you me and Governor will know about it.
oi Henry, come on then explain yourself, credit crunch, fuel prices, my weekly shopping bill, come on, sort them out, your so incompetent these days :-)
[cite]Posted By: DA9[/cite]oi Henry, come on then explain yourself, credit crunch, fuel prices, my weekly shopping bill, come on, sort them out, your so incompetent these days :-)
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Cheers Oggy, I would have preferred a whip round but a big hand will do fine.
Flogger or Bull?
Was in the club supertore yesterday, and was grilled by the shop manager on fans opinions of the kit and why the opinions were negative. He was very responsive and seemed positive to receiving information. Did not realise we had once had a vote on kits. Also, mentioned to him that there was dissatisfaction that we only had one year deal on the sponsorship, which he did not understand as we would re negotiate the deal to be a Premiership deal if we were promoted. Took on board that concern was that after a year we would have to buy a new kit as sponsor changed, but he implied it was more a case of being able to review the deal if we were promoted.
He seemed a good guy, keen to get fans views in person, even negative ones, but was not keen on message board views as he found they were only ever negative, I suggested coming on here where there was a more balanced view. Mentioned Bens name a few tmes so he suggested a special price promotion to reflect this, 0ne for the price of two.
Reading has a new sponsor, Waitrose for only a year. Their fans were MOANING about the possbility of buying another kit next year 09/10 season.
You would find that message boards even on Liverpool and Man Utd message boards have the largest amount of moaners. If the message board owners dont like it then they should remove such posts if its going to upset anyone.
Personally I wouldn't blame some of the people at the club for giving up reading some of the crap that comes on here and some of the abusive e-mails and letters they get
[cite]Posted By: leftbehind[/cite]Personally I wouldn't blame some of the people at the club for giving up reading some of the crap that comes on here and some of the abusive e-mails and letters they get
How very true
Having message board hopped for a number of years before comeing to rest here, this is a very positive message board, with good debate and every negative countered by a positive.
[cite]Posted By: Kap10[/cite]Having message board hopped for a number of years before comeing to rest here, this is a very positive message board, with good debate and every negative countered by a positive.
[cite]Posted By: leftbehind[/cite]Personally I wouldn't blame some of the people at the club for giving up reading some of the crap that comes on here and some of the abusive e-mails and letters they get
How very true
Having message board hopped for a number of years before comeing to rest here, this is a very positive message board, with good debate and every negative countered by a positive.
Again very true shame there is so much negative posts so counter ;-)
(Henners: I wasn't inimating you were giving inside info, more a view from the inside the club, and you tend to see the whole picture and have command of the facts etc. and so can put people straight.)
I don't think the 'negativity' is that bad on here, apart from maybe a small minority, but hey its a free country isn't it.... I hope and believe the Board and others are wise enough to know the difference between rants and constructive criticism. You can't ask fans to be passionate and then not care and express themselves when they see or perceive things they don't like about the club and the way its run.
Personally I think boards like this are extremely valuable as microcosm view of what some of our support are thinking, and for monitoring the way the club is coming across and what reaction it is getting.
What puzzles me a little is why they are chopping the supporters director role when it seems to be a very important channel particularly in recent years for dispelling myth and hearsay, something which is surely invaluable from a PR point of view.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite](Henners: I wasn't inimating you were giving inside info, more a view from the inside the club, and you tend to see the whole picture and have command of the facts etc. and so can put people straight.)
I don't think the 'negativity' is that bad on here, apart from maybe a small minority, but hey its a free country isn't it.... I hope and believe the Board and others are wise enough to know the difference between rants and constructive criticism. You can't ask fans to be passionate and then not care and express themselves when they see or perceive things they don't like about the club and the way its run.
Personally I think boards like this are extremely valuable as microcosm view of what some of our support are thinking, and for monitoring the way the club is coming across and what reaction is it getting.
What puzzles me a little is why they are chopping the supporters director role when it seems to be a very important channel particularly in recent years for dispelling myth and hearsay, something which is surely invaluable from a PR point of view.
With respect to Henry and everyone else that has held the role but I've never been convinced that the role of supporters director is anything other than a PR exercise. It gives the Club the opertunity to say "look how fan friendly we are, we have a supporter as a director" but, as I have asked Henry before, in reality what has the role achieved?
PR isn't always bad, and I said above I think it goes beyond the value of just being able to say we have a fans director.. the evidence for this is day in day out on this board.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite](Henners: I wasn't inimating you were giving inside info, more a view from the inside the club, and you tend to see the whole picture and have command of the facts etc. and so can put people straight.)
I don't think the 'negativity' is that bad on here, apart from maybe a small minority, but hey its a free country isn't it.... I hope and believe the Board and others are wise enough to know the difference between rants and constructive criticism. You can't ask fans to be passionate and then not care and express themselves when they see or perceive things they don't like about the club and the way its run.
Personally I think boards like this are extremely valuable as microcosm view of what some of our support are thinking, and for monitoring the way the club is coming across and what reaction it is getting.
What puzzles me a little is why they are chopping the supporters director role when it seems to be a very important channel particularly in recent years for dispelling myth and hearsay, something which is surely invaluable from a PR point of view.
I think it's the type of unconsidered negativity which if it were directed at you would find it difficult to be considered in response. Eg Calling a member of staff's work "ceebeeish" and "bullshit" or suggesting that the club get some "proper marketing staff". Put your job role in there and imagine how you would feel?
As I see some the responses that fans do get from staff I am amazed that they do responded in such an adult and professional manner even when they and their professionalism have been insulted.
Unfortunately some fans see no light or shade. I think the most annoying for me is when I get a rant attacking some aspect of the club's activities yet when I take the time to respond and try to explain I will get a "thanks for getting back to me I still disagree/I see your point" maybe one in ten times.
As for the SD role being chopped I'm obviously biased. I think it has always been about PR but a bit more than just that. It is a chance to influence from the inside. I can't speak for the other SDs (although I think Steve Clarke and Craig Norris had more influence at a different time in the club's history) but if you are voicing an opinion or at least getting the board to consider the impact of decisions on fans or the reaction that such a decision will attract then you are doing your job.
Barn Door - I think I personally have achieved some small successes. I think part of the problem is that some fans, and I'm not saying you, feel that unless you have stormed the barricades to champion their particular cause you have not done anything. But when discussions about ticket prices are taking place for example I can have a say.
For me the minutes applause will be a permanent legacy of which I'm proud. The same with the flags (Rothko helped a little as well ; - ) ), the price reduction at Preston this year was as a result of me raising this with Charlton and Preston after Large Addick brought up the subject on CL. I'm also pleased to have got the bloggers nights up and running and the articles in the papers and on here as it helped to explain some of what was going on to fans. Sitting on the Safety group meant that I could question the police on some of their decisions eg playing the Palace game on a Friday.
There are dozens of other smaller and less significant (although not to those involved) wins that I'm pleased with. Maybe some would have been taken up anyway but the SD is a focal point for communication, ideas and complaints. One that is current (I had an email waiting for me when I got home) is getting some shelves for wheelchair users put up in the quadrants and having RADAR locks fitted on the disabled toilets. Wow, locks on toilets say the cynics but to some fans that is important.
There will always be idiots who ask why did you employ Dowie (Sue's time not mine actually) or sign Faye(That was Dowie) but anyone who asks that just doesn't understand what the SD role is meant to be about.
I still hope that what replaces the SD will have at least some advantages. I certainly believe that having more than one elected rep will take the emphasis away from the person to what is done.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite](Henners: I wasn't inimating you were giving inside info, more a view from the inside the club, and you tend to see the whole picture and have command of the facts etc. and so can put people straight.)
I don't think the 'negativity' is that bad on here, apart from maybe a small minority, but hey its a free country isn't it.... I hope and believe the Board and others are wise enough to know the difference between rants and constructive criticism. You can't ask fans to be passionate and then not care and express themselves when they see or perceive things they don't like about the club and the way its run.
Personally I think boards like this are extremely valuable as microcosm view of what some of our support are thinking, and for monitoring the way the club is coming across and what reaction it is getting.
What puzzles me a little is why they are chopping the supporters director role when it seems to be a very important channel particularly in recent years for dispelling myth and hearsay, something which is surely invaluable from a PR point of view.
I think it's the type of unconsidered negativity which if it were directed at you would find it difficult to be considered in response. Eg Calling a member of staff's work "ceebeeish" and "bullshit" or suggesting that the club get some "proper marketing staff". Put your job role in there and imagine how you would feel?
As I see some the responses that fans do get from staff I am amazed that they do responded in such an adult and professional manner even when they and their professionalism have been insulted.
Unfortunately some fans see no light or shade. I think the most annoying for me is when I get a rant attacking some aspect of the club's activities yet when I take the time to respond and try to explain I will get a "thanks for getting back to me I still disagree/I see your point" maybe one in ten times.
As for the SD role being chopped I'm obviously biased. I think it has always been about PR but a bit more than just that. It is a chance to influence from the inside. I can't speak for the other SDs (although I think Steve Clarke and Craig Norris had more influence at a different time in the club's history) but if you are voicing an opinion or at least getting the board to consider the impact of decisions on fans or the reaction that such a decision will attract then you are doing your job.
Barn Door - I think I personally have achieved some small successes. I think part of the problem is that some fans, and I'm not saying you, feel that unless you have stormed the barricades to champion their particular cause you have not done anything. But when discussions about ticket prices are taking place for example I can have a say.
For me the minutes applause will be a permanent legacy of which I'm proud. The same with the flags (Rothko helped a little as well ; - ) ), the price reduction at Preston this year was as a result of me raising this with Charlton and Preston after Large Addick brought up the subject on CL. I'm also pleased to have got the bloggers nights up and running and the articles in the papers and on here as it helped to explain some of what was going on to fans. Sitting on the Safety group meant that I could question the police on some of their decisions eg playing the Palace game on a Friday.
There are dozens of other smaller and less significant (although not to those involved) wins that I'm pleased with. Maybe some would have been taken up anyway but the SD is a focal point for communication, ideas and complaints. One that is current (I had an email waiting for me when I got home) is getting some shelves for wheelchair users put up in the quadrants and having RADAR locks fitted on the disabled toilets. Wow, locks on toilets say the cynics but to some fans that is important.
There will always be idiots who ask why did you employ Dowie (Sue's time not mine actually) or sign Faye(That was Dowie) but anyone who asks that just doesn't understand what the SD role is meant to be about.
I still hope that what replaces the SD will have at least some advantages. I certainly believe that having more than one elected rep will take the emphasis away from the person to what is done.
Oh, and I got bottled beer on sale.
But apart from that, what have you done for us? ;o)
Fair enough Henry. As I said, I'm not having a pop at the role but, call me cynical, it's nice to see examples of the club treating the role as more that just a PR exercise and that it brings results (even if I don't agree with all of them) rather than just lip service.
Bottled beer was an achievement just need to make it drinkable and affordable now.. :)
The average fan is going to read things in the papers, have very little clue of the reality of what goes on at the club, and loves to be an armchair manager/chairman etc. You are therefore always going to get a level of criticism from fans rightly or wrongly, well or ill informed, and this forum is no exception.
I think there is also an accountability question. We don't 'own' the club and as a result it could be argued that we have no right to criticise, but we put away our cash each year and do the supporter thing, which adds up collectively, and we are going to care and comment when things go wrong. On the flip side we can also be proud and brag to others when our club shows its good side, well run, community based, not glory boys, friendly.
Your comment about the job thing was interesting. I work in IT in the City and if I fuck up it is very evident, and I would expect criticism if I wasn't doing my job properly, indeed I would probably get the elbow, although being at the mercy of 20,000 fans could be a bit severe. I don't think its fair to attack people personally - like the tea lady for example, how bad were her tea selections anyway? ;) The reality of football however is that players, managers, chairmen all get a lot of criticism often quite personal.
Its just my view but as an (arm)chairman I would prefer to have all views be they 'mentalist' or 'moderate'. We've all been around long enough to know that generally the moaners moan loudest, but there is often sound argument and reason in a lot of this, bottom line it stops the board becoming an Ivory Tower if they care to listen which judging by the forthcoming City Addicks attendance they certainly seem to.
Comments
given up on what ?
pete, its not just the close season, its the quiet part of the close season.
HENRY SORT IT OUT
What is the club meant to do to when nothing is happening?!
I know what you mean. I'm organising a 5-a-side tournament for the boys of Wilmington Grammar School and I approached Charlton to see if they wanted to be involved but they turned me down flat. I approached Goals in Dartford and they have agreed to run the whole thing for nothing and they're throwing in medals, balls and goody bags for the boys. I went down to Goals last night to finalise the arrangements and the manager down there told me that Charlton were really struggling to attract the numbers that they used to on their community scheme.It's all going to pot, I tell thee...
It certainly isnt the same club it was 5 years ago. I do hope they don't adopt commericlism too much and lose the soul of the club, the link with the fans/board has been a very uniqie one although I think it may be on the wane recently.
Still we have a new beginning so lets see where it goes.
Personally I wouldn't blame some of the people at the club for giving up reading some of the crap that comes on here and some of the abusive e-mails and letters they get but as far as I can tell they haven't given up at all.
We just raised £14.8m in a bond issue. Sounds like those directors haven't given up.
We've sold getting on for 14k STs and it's only June. Doesn't sound like the fans have given up.
We've got a new CEO full of ideas and energy who had to get the job over two existing Championship CEOs. He's not giving up anytime soon as far as I can see.
The Community Schemes go from strength to strength, winning national awards and getting increased funding so they can expand their operations.
We got a new sponsor when I hear that at least three premier clubs are struggling to get new deals. The commercial team haven't given up.
And we've nearly got rid of that Jonah of a Supporters' Director. Anyone else notice that it all went downhill when he started.
when did I turn into a kiss arse...?
I'm sure some supporters don't fully value Henry's dedication to the role of Supporters' Director.
We needed Henry to inspire the Board to make the decisions that led to relegation and the depths of despair, in order to make us appreciate how far the club had come, to show how disatisfied we'd become with Curbs' achievements and how we'd no longer settle for midtable mediocraty.
Without Henry's influence, the club could have never striven to the next level - the one below.
And as Henry himself has pointed out, with his imminent departure there is a rennaissance in the club - and once again we can look towards gaining promotion to the promised land of Premiership midtable obscurity. ;o)
Seriously ...... we ought to give a big hand for the time & commitment that Henry has given to his role during the past 2 years - and his contribution on this board, whether you've agreed with him or not, for the liasons and insights provided into the running of the club behind the scenes.
You always have been or so I hear but what you do at the weekends is nothing to do with me ; - )
Thing is very little of that is "inside view" other than the other clubs not getting sponsors and that is not CAFC info anyway. The bond issue, the ST, the new CEO is all common knowledge and the two other Championship CEOs came out at the Bloggers night.
I don't think anyone else has noticed the correlation between the Supporters' Director and relegation yet so let's not tell them. Just you me and Governor will know about it.
OK, OK but I did get bottled beer ; - )
Flogger or Bull?
Was in the club supertore yesterday, and was grilled by the shop manager on fans opinions of the kit and why the opinions were negative. He was very responsive and seemed positive to receiving information. Did not realise we had once had a vote on kits. Also, mentioned to him that there was dissatisfaction that we only had one year deal on the sponsorship, which he did not understand as we would re negotiate the deal to be a Premiership deal if we were promoted. Took on board that concern was that after a year we would have to buy a new kit as sponsor changed, but he implied it was more a case of being able to review the deal if we were promoted.
He seemed a good guy, keen to get fans views in person, even negative ones, but was not keen on message board views as he found they were only ever negative, I suggested coming on here where there was a more balanced view. Mentioned Bens name a few tmes so he suggested a special price promotion to reflect this, 0ne for the price of two.
What? You mentioned my name and that tight northern so and so Rea wouldn't give you a discount. Shocking! : - )
I wonder how he came to that conclusion : - (
You would find that message boards even on Liverpool and Man Utd message boards have the largest amount of moaners. If the message board owners dont like it then they should remove such posts if its going to upset anyone.
How very true
Having message board hopped for a number of years before comeing to rest here, this is a very positive message board, with good debate and every negative countered by a positive.
;-)
Again very true shame there is so much negative posts so counter ;-)
I don't think the 'negativity' is that bad on here, apart from maybe a small minority, but hey its a free country isn't it.... I hope and believe the Board and others are wise enough to know the difference between rants and constructive criticism. You can't ask fans to be passionate and then not care and express themselves when they see or perceive things they don't like about the club and the way its run.
Personally I think boards like this are extremely valuable as microcosm view of what some of our support are thinking, and for monitoring the way the club is coming across and what reaction it is getting.
What puzzles me a little is why they are chopping the supporters director role when it seems to be a very important channel particularly in recent years for dispelling myth and hearsay, something which is surely invaluable from a PR point of view.
With respect to Henry and everyone else that has held the role but I've never been convinced that the role of supporters director is anything other than a PR exercise. It gives the Club the opertunity to say "look how fan friendly we are, we have a supporter as a director" but, as I have asked Henry before, in reality what has the role achieved?
I think it's the type of unconsidered negativity which if it were directed at you would find it difficult to be considered in response. Eg Calling a member of staff's work "ceebeeish" and "bullshit" or suggesting that the club get some "proper marketing staff". Put your job role in there and imagine how you would feel?
As I see some the responses that fans do get from staff I am amazed that they do responded in such an adult and professional manner even when they and their professionalism have been insulted.
Unfortunately some fans see no light or shade. I think the most annoying for me is when I get a rant attacking some aspect of the club's activities yet when I take the time to respond and try to explain I will get a "thanks for getting back to me I still disagree/I see your point" maybe one in ten times.
As for the SD role being chopped I'm obviously biased. I think it has always been about PR but a bit more than just that. It is a chance to influence from the inside. I can't speak for the other SDs (although I think Steve Clarke and Craig Norris had more influence at a different time in the club's history) but if you are voicing an opinion or at least getting the board to consider the impact of decisions on fans or the reaction that such a decision will attract then you are doing your job.
Barn Door - I think I personally have achieved some small successes. I think part of the problem is that some fans, and I'm not saying you, feel that unless you have stormed the barricades to champion their particular cause you have not done anything. But when discussions about ticket prices are taking place for example I can have a say.
For me the minutes applause will be a permanent legacy of which I'm proud. The same with the flags (Rothko helped a little as well ; - ) ), the price reduction at Preston this year was as a result of me raising this with Charlton and Preston after Large Addick brought up the subject on CL. I'm also pleased to have got the bloggers nights up and running and the articles in the papers and on here as it helped to explain some of what was going on to fans. Sitting on the Safety group meant that I could question the police on some of their decisions eg playing the Palace game on a Friday.
There are dozens of other smaller and less significant (although not to those involved) wins that I'm pleased with. Maybe some would have been taken up anyway but the SD is a focal point for communication, ideas and complaints. One that is current (I had an email waiting for me when I got home) is getting some shelves for wheelchair users put up in the quadrants and having RADAR locks fitted on the disabled toilets. Wow, locks on toilets say the cynics but to some fans that is important.
There will always be idiots who ask why did you employ Dowie (Sue's time not mine actually) or sign Faye(That was Dowie) but anyone who asks that just doesn't understand what the SD role is meant to be about.
I still hope that what replaces the SD will have at least some advantages. I certainly believe that having more than one elected rep will take the emphasis away from the person to what is done.
Oh, and I got bottled beer on sale.
Yes but then you drank it allt
But apart from that, what have you done for us? ;o)
Fair enough Henry. As I said, I'm not having a pop at the role but, call me cynical, it's nice to see examples of the club treating the role as more that just a PR exercise and that it brings results (even if I don't agree with all of them) rather than just lip service.
The average fan is going to read things in the papers, have very little clue of the reality of what goes on at the club, and loves to be an armchair manager/chairman etc. You are therefore always going to get a level of criticism from fans rightly or wrongly, well or ill informed, and this forum is no exception.
I think there is also an accountability question. We don't 'own' the club and as a result it could be argued that we have no right to criticise, but we put away our cash each year and do the supporter thing, which adds up collectively, and we are going to care and comment when things go wrong. On the flip side we can also be proud and brag to others when our club shows its good side, well run, community based, not glory boys, friendly.
Your comment about the job thing was interesting. I work in IT in the City and if I fuck up it is very evident, and I would expect criticism if I wasn't doing my job properly, indeed I would probably get the elbow, although being at the mercy of 20,000 fans could be a bit severe. I don't think its fair to attack people personally - like the tea lady for example, how bad were her tea selections anyway? ;) The reality of football however is that players, managers, chairmen all get a lot of criticism often quite personal.
Its just my view but as an (arm)chairman I would prefer to have all views be they 'mentalist' or 'moderate'. We've all been around long enough to know that generally the moaners moan loudest, but there is often sound argument and reason in a lot of this, bottom line it stops the board becoming an Ivory Tower if they care to listen which judging by the forthcoming City Addicks attendance they certainly seem to.