On one issue alone - how many of the Irish followed and accompanied the English and Scotch into death in the First World War and I reckon it will be relatively by population about the same.
why not celebrate the fact that ireland said no,instead of harping on about irelands non attendance in the war,your be shocked how many irish fought for the british,for the size of the country it would amaze you how many did,and im talking about catholics as well,but lets talk about lighting up harbours for u boats.fuck me its like something out of ryans daughter.
I believe there should be a referendum, but whilst this government is in power, even a europhic no vote will be ignored and they will implement it anyway.
Nolly there was never a dig at the people of Ireland who fought (and died) or really a dig at their Governmant who was neutral. Its still ironic that the UK who fought on alone dont even get the right to vote (for or against) and a further irony is if the UK had been neutral in 1939 would anyone be voting at all ? Its a major dig at our rabble.
About 210,000 Irishmen fought in WW1. Nationalists and Unionists. There were 2 specific Divisions the 16th Irish Division and 36th Ulster Division. They fought alongside each other.
what is the point of that statistic ? the point made during the thread was RO Ireland being neutral in World War Two ? as said thats the Government not the people.
in 1940 the World stood there and watched while we the Uk stood alone against facism. The rest of Europe is free to vote yes or no because of that fact. Yet our Government says the children and grand children of those same people cant have that vote ---------------------- and that is disgusting.
tonite The House of lords voted to ratify the treaty so we go on ignoring the people of Ireland.
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]lets riot and over throw Gordon "why does my mouth do that" Brown
how fecking ignorant and obnoxious to take away a blatent democratic right from its people i thought we invaded other countries for doing that
2 faced double standard bstds we should be smashing the gaff up andd createing merry hell instead we all just moan over our cornflakes
Why? We live in a a democracy. We elect MP's who form a government to represent us. They are not card carrying Union delegates who have vote exactly as their members tell them.
If you don't like them and what they do, then vote them out. There is no need for a revolution.
The next government looks likely to be a David Cameron led Tory one. They wish us to have a referendum on the question of the constitution/treaty. That's good politics at the moment because it focusses on the unpopular position taken by the Government. Just see though if they offer to repeal/renegotiate this treaty when they get into power. Remember, this is the party who agreed, without a referendum to:
1. The single European Act
2. Qualified Majority Voting
3. The formation of the EU (from the EEC)
4. The Maastrict Treaty and European Monetry Union/the Euro
and if we go way back
5. Taking us into the EEC/signing the treaty of accession
I am pro EU and pro this constitutional arrangement which going to help the EU run more smoothly what I am against is the failure to engage the public in a debate about these issues and the benefits we gain from our membership.
[cite]Posted By: DA9[/cite]We are an Island race, we are a different breed of people from the European mainland, and long may we remain so.
Which reminds of the great and maybe apocryphal headline "Fog in the channel, continent cut off".
Around 60% of British trade is with the EU, so we aren't such an island race after all and we need to be a political part of the EU if we want to protect what is our biggest trading partner and our economic interests within that community. In 1957 Anthony Eden made the mistake not to get involved in the EEC, with the consequence that the institutions in Europe were formed without our involvement and therefore not only did they take no account of British needs but they promoted French and German etc objectives instead. With globalisation a reality a united Europe can play a part in the next century. A divided Europe practising protectionism and competing against itself is no help to anyone.
by the time the chance to get rid of that buffoon we will have ratified and agredd the treaty and i am led to believe that there is no escape clause once it has been agreed.
Didnt labour say we could have a referrendum and then just fail to gives us one i dont believe that the tories will allow us to have one either so the only answer is to Riot.
[cite]Posted By: DA9[/cite]We are an Island race, we are a different breed of people from the European mainland, and long may we remain so.
Which reminds of the great and maybe apocryphal headline "Fog in the channel, continent cut off".
Around 60% of British trade is with the EU, so we aren't such an island race after all and we need to be a political part of the EU if we want to protect what is our biggest trading partner and our economic interests within that community. In 1957 Anthony Eden made the mistake not to get involved in the EEC, with the consequence that the institutions in Europe were formed without our involvement and therefore not only did they take no account of British needs but they promoted French and German etc objectives instead. With globalisation a reality a united Europe can play a part in the next century. A divided Europe practising protectionism and competing against itself is no help to anyone.
We can still trade with Europe, does not mean we have to be an integral part of it or adopt its monetary system and politics.
I think the main fear for many is the part that Brussels will play in our own systems, laws and borders, well it is for me anyway, we are unique in that we have no borders with anyone else.
We also see day after day that the UK are consistently one of the biggest financial contributors to the EU as it stands, but, in terms of benefits we see financially and fishing & farming quotas, we get stuffed everytime.
[cite]Posted By: DA9[/cite]We can still trade with Europe, does not mean we have to be an integral part of it or adopt its monetary system and politics.
I think the main fear for many is the part that Brussels will play in our own systems, laws and borders, well it is for me anyway, we are unique in that we have no borders with anyone else.
We also see day after day that the UK are consistently one of the biggest financial contributors to the EU as it stands, but, in terms of benefits we see financially and fishing & farming quotas, we get stuffed everytime.
Of course we can... China, the US, Japan etc arent in Europe but they still trade with each other...
We are indeed one of the biggest contributors. Driving through Ireland though, it's clear that they are one of the benefactors... signs all over the place "sewage works, funded by the EU". "This road project, funded by the EU" etc etc... and didnt the EU practically save their farming industry years ago?
"This road project, funded by the EU" etc etc... and didnt the EU practically save their farming industry years ago?
.......
When Ireland joined the EEC it was the poorest (or next to) country in Europe which was famous for exporting beer - now it's the second richest per capita.
[cite]Posted By: DA9[/cite]We can still trade with Europe, does not mean we have to be an integral part of it or adopt its monetary system and politics.
I think the main fear for many is the part that Brussels will play in our own systems, laws and borders, well it is for me anyway, we are unique in that we have no borders with anyone else.
We also see day after day that the UK are consistently one of the biggest financial contributors to the EU as it stands, but, in terms of benefits we see financially and fishing & farming quotas, we get stuffed everytime.
Of course we can... China, the US, Japan etc arent in Europe but they still trade with each other...
We are indeed one of the biggest contributors. Driving through Ireland though, it's clear that they are one of the benefactors... signs all over the place "sewage works, funded by the EU". "This road project, funded by the EU" etc etc... and didnt the EU practically save their farming industry years ago?
Welll good luck to Ireland, what are their contributions per year?
Exactly the point, we put the most in, but get the least out, we are subsidising other poorer economys, so the Irish vote was a little surprising in light of that.
I cant see how we benefit in anyway, but happy to be shown proof otherwise, as opinions, quoting Shameless last night, are like arseholes, everyone has one and they all stink.
[cite]Posted By: DA9[/cite]I think the main fear for many is the part that Brussels will play in our own systems, laws and borders, well it is for me anyway, we are unique in that we have no borders with anyone else.
[cite]Posted By: DA9[/cite]I think the main fear for many is the part that Brussels will play in our own systems, laws and borders, well it is for me anyway, we are unique in that we have no borders with anyone else.
doesn't Northern Ireland count for anything?!?!
I see your point but NI's quotas and handouts would be aligned with mainland UK
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]by the time the chance to get rid of that buffoon we will have ratified and agredd the treaty and i am led to believe that there is no escape clause once it has been agreed.
There's always an escape clause. We can leave the EU. It's a club, it's members decide the rules. If we don't like the rules then in the end we have to leave.
[quote][cite]Posted By: bingaddick[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]by the time the chance to get rid of that buffoon we will have ratified and agredd the treaty and i am led to believe that there is no escape clause once it has been agreed. [/quote]
There's always an escape clause. We can leave the EU. It's a club, it's members decide the rules. If we don't like the rules then in the end we have to leave.[/quote]
Sorry about the quote but links don't work with BBCode.
Although admitedly unlikely to ever happen prior to Lisbon being ratified the Westminster Parliament, our elected representatives, could have unilaterally taken us out of the EU.
Such a fundamental change to the democratic rights of the British people should have been put to them in a referendum.
Even "Europhiles" of integrity believe that.
A curse on New Labour and Gordon Brown, Tony Blair and David Miliband in particular.
Comments
in 1940 the World stood there and watched while we the Uk stood alone against facism. The rest of Europe is free to vote yes or no because of that fact. Yet our Government says the children and grand children of those same people cant have that vote ---------------------- and that is disgusting.
tonite The House of lords voted to ratify the treaty so we go on ignoring the people of Ireland.
how fecking ignorant and obnoxious to take away a blatent democratic right from its people i thought we invaded other countries for doing that
2 faced double standard bstds we should be smashing the gaff up andd createing merry hell instead we all just moan over our cornflakes
Why? We live in a a democracy. We elect MP's who form a government to represent us. They are not card carrying Union delegates who have vote exactly as their members tell them.
If you don't like them and what they do, then vote them out. There is no need for a revolution.
The next government looks likely to be a David Cameron led Tory one. They wish us to have a referendum on the question of the constitution/treaty. That's good politics at the moment because it focusses on the unpopular position taken by the Government. Just see though if they offer to repeal/renegotiate this treaty when they get into power. Remember, this is the party who agreed, without a referendum to:
1. The single European Act
2. Qualified Majority Voting
3. The formation of the EU (from the EEC)
4. The Maastrict Treaty and European Monetry Union/the Euro
and if we go way back
5. Taking us into the EEC/signing the treaty of accession
I am pro EU and pro this constitutional arrangement which going to help the EU run more smoothly what I am against is the failure to engage the public in a debate about these issues and the benefits we gain from our membership.
Which reminds of the great and maybe apocryphal headline "Fog in the channel, continent cut off".
Around 60% of British trade is with the EU, so we aren't such an island race after all and we need to be a political part of the EU if we want to protect what is our biggest trading partner and our economic interests within that community. In 1957 Anthony Eden made the mistake not to get involved in the EEC, with the consequence that the institutions in Europe were formed without our involvement and therefore not only did they take no account of British needs but they promoted French and German etc objectives instead. With globalisation a reality a united Europe can play a part in the next century. A divided Europe practising protectionism and competing against itself is no help to anyone.
Didnt labour say we could have a referrendum and then just fail to gives us one i dont believe that the tories will allow us to have one either so the only answer is to Riot.
And riots are more fun than just voting :-)
We can still trade with Europe, does not mean we have to be an integral part of it or adopt its monetary system and politics.
I think the main fear for many is the part that Brussels will play in our own systems, laws and borders, well it is for me anyway, we are unique in that we have no borders with anyone else.
We also see day after day that the UK are consistently one of the biggest financial contributors to the EU as it stands, but, in terms of benefits we see financially and fishing & farming quotas, we get stuffed everytime.
Of course we can... China, the US, Japan etc arent in Europe but they still trade with each other...
We are indeed one of the biggest contributors. Driving through Ireland though, it's clear that they are one of the benefactors... signs all over the place "sewage works, funded by the EU". "This road project, funded by the EU" etc etc... and didnt the EU practically save their farming industry years ago?
.......
When Ireland joined the EEC it was the poorest (or next to) country in Europe which was famous for exporting beer - now it's the second richest per capita.
Welll good luck to Ireland, what are their contributions per year?
Exactly the point, we put the most in, but get the least out, we are subsidising other poorer economys, so the Irish vote was a little surprising in light of that.
I cant see how we benefit in anyway, but happy to be shown proof otherwise, as opinions, quoting Shameless last night, are like arseholes, everyone has one and they all stink.
I see your point but NI's quotas and handouts would be aligned with mainland UK
Was exactly my thought when I heard they'd voted 'no'.
There's always an escape clause. We can leave the EU. It's a club, it's members decide the rules. If we don't like the rules then in the end we have to leave.
[/quote]
There's always an escape clause. We can leave the EU. It's a club, it's members decide the rules. If we don't like the rules then in the end we have to leave.[/quote]
Half right Bing.
Under Lisbon we can leave if the others let us!
http://alfredtheordinary.co.uk/index.php?itemid=9#more
Sorry about the quote but links don't work with BBCode.
Although admitedly unlikely to ever happen prior to Lisbon being ratified the Westminster Parliament, our elected representatives, could have unilaterally taken us out of the EU.
Such a fundamental change to the democratic rights of the British people should have been put to them in a referendum.
Even "Europhiles" of integrity believe that.
A curse on New Labour and Gordon Brown, Tony Blair and David Miliband in particular.