The real reason why people should oppose Thatcher is for her squandering of North Sea oil reserves. In the early 80s Britain was making over £1bn a month in taxes on North Sea oil and gas. That money should have either been used either to pay down the national debt or invest in social infrastructure such as schools, universities, roads, hospitals etc. Instead it went on unemployment benefit and more specifically on the 3.5m unemployed who lost their jobs in the name of monetarism - Thatcher's failed and discredited economic policy. By now if that money had been invested wisely Britain could have not just social infrastructure to be proud of, but a sovereign fund that could invest for future generations.
She even bungled the privatisation of the national industries - selling them off far too cheaply and in the process making a whole raft of industrialists rich at our expense. Then there was the poll tax...
Pre the miners strke in the 1980s Thatcher brought in mountains of coal from the USSR and Poland. Those good old Socialist empirers. It was rubbish stuff, but there was huge quantities of it piled in all the ruddundant Power Sations. The miners were told 1,000 times by the power workers what was going on. Scargills ego killed the mines as much as Thatchers idiology. No way he should have taken her on when he did , she provoked it after passing anti strike laws. She knew he would fight and it was on her terms. Neo Liberlism baited the trap--- Socialist Empires sent the supplies----and a Socialist icon`s ego brought the miners to the end of the road.
not from a book i was a Trade Union official and a Power Worker during those years.
PS i dont think coal has had is day. Prices of fuel will reach such a high and technology re CO2 will advance. Of course it will be "Forign" investors who see it and fund it.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]Pre the miners strke in the 1980s Thatcher brought in mountains of coal from the USSR and Poland. Those good old Socialist empirers. It was rubbish stuff, but there was huge quantities of it piled in all the ruddundant Power Sations. The miners were told 1,000 times by the power workers what was going on. Scargills ego killed the mines as much as Thatchers idiology. No way he should have taken her on when he did , she provoked it after passing anti strike laws. She knew he would fight and it was on her terms. Neo Liberlism baited the trap--- Socialist Empires sent the supplies----and a Socialist icon`s ego brought the miners to the end of the road.
not from a book i was a Trade Union official and a Power Worker during those years.
PS i dont think coal has had is day. Prices of fuel will reach such a high and technology re CO2 will advance. Of course it will be "Forign" investors who see it and fund it.[/quote]
So what should Scargill have done?
Consented to the massacre of the coal industry? Just watched and done nothing as tens of thousands of miners were thrown on the dole? His personality certainly didn't help, but he was no Joe Gormley who the National Coal Board used to drag down to London, then they would literally ply him so much alcohol that he could not only stand up but would agree to pretty much anything. Unfortunately Scargill was too much his own man and history has vindicated him.
The whole thing was a Thatcherite stitch up, from the importing of oil and coal to the massive subsidies given to nuclear power but were strangely not offered or were withdrawn from coal.
The knock-on was not just the death of the British coal industry but also steel too - coal being a vital component in making steel, and that in turn made car and ship building and construction more expensive. It might have been worth it had Thatcher had some plans to invest in new industries for the areas that were hardest hit, instead all that happened was that massive numbers of people went on the dole and we squandered north sea oil and gas revenues to keep them there and what wealth from the jobs in industry that were created went overseas.
[cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite]My personal favorite was her destruction of our national coal industry and the desecration of hundreds of small communities in the process.
Remember the Tory line, "Coal is an outdated industry, there is no future in it" and their push for nuclear power?
Well, fast forward 23 years and what are we still largely powering the UK with? Coal. Where do we get it from? France, China and India - where the coal industries are all owned by their government's.
Thatcher killed the coal industry because of politics and did not give a damn what happened to the people left behind.
Ironically, one of the few decent Tories of that era was the upper-crust multi-millionaire Heseltine who really pushed her to at least give those areas some regeneration funding.
dry your eyes...
Why haven't Labour re-opened the Pits?..
Why haven't Labor re-opened the pits? Er, could it be that most of them have been shut for 20 years now and are in total disrepair and would cost billions to re-open? Could it also be the fact that 20 years on the pit communities are deserted and the skilled workforce that used to work there has been totally dispersed? Could it also be that we now know that coal is one of the leading causes of global warming (although you probably don't believe in that either) so there would not be much point re-opening them now?
These are just a few of my immediate thoughts. You know what thinking is don't you? Or do you get all your talking points from whatever Tory rag you read every day.
I love the "dry your eyes" comment as well. Isn't it funny how its always the right wing nutbags who resort to personal abuse first? I am a big admirer of Ken Livingstone but you don't see me on here abusing the people who say they hate him, do you? No, you don't, because people are entitled to their opinions without being abused for them.
If you could make an argument telling me why it made economic or social sense to put tens of thousands of Britons out of work by closing the mines, destroy dozens of mining towns and make ourselves totally reliant on foreign fuel suppliers then I would respect you in disagreement, but you can't do that can you?
Am I a "right-wing nutbag"?...do you know me well enough to make such a comment?
[quote][cite]Posted By: DA_9[/cite]But how sustainable is coal now as a fuel, especially our own supplies of it?[/quote]
From UK suppliers? Minimal, most coal is imported and when North Sea oil and gas run out we'll no longer control energy creation in the UK, and that underpins the entire economy. Britain is a net importer of energy and especially oil and we have an economy backed by carbon fuels. That's ok while oil and gas prices are cheap but as we've seen in recent months oil is getting more expensive. Our attempt to secure oil supplies by colonisation (the Iraq war) has failed so we either reduce energy consumption (and imports) or go nuclear/green.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Gump[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite][quote][cite]Am I a "right-wing nutbag"?...do you know me well enough to make such a comment?[/quote]
I don't know about "right-wing", but the other half of the comment is on the money...
Scargill could have waited , he could have chosen his ground, he could have called an OFFICIAL strike. The Power Workers wouldnt have crossed an Official picket line. He could have got the Notts miners on side again by calling a ballot. Instead he never made it official, The NUM split and the Power Workers never joined in. Maggie new him better then he did himself.
we lost 200,000 miners 60,000 power workers,+ 200,000 car workers, 100,000 steel workers, 100,000 shipworkers. Where did they go ? what are they doing now ?
Only one option to go for is nuclear. The green option does not give us enough i.e wind farms can only produce 5% of energy. Unfortuantly nuclear waste but what else can we do go back to the caveman times.
[quote][cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: DA_9[/cite]But how sustainable is coal now as a fuel, especially our own supplies of it?[/quote]
From UK suppliers? Minimal, most coal is imported and when North Sea oil and gas run out we'll no longer control energy creation in the UK, and that underpins the entire economy. Britain is a net importer of energy and especially oil and we have an economy backed by carbon fuels. That's ok while oil and gas prices are cheap but as we've seen in recent months oil is getting more expensive. Our attempt to secure oil supplies by colonisation (the Iraq war) has failed so we either reduce energy consumption (and imports) or go nuclear/green.[/quote]
Thats what worries me, coal, whether imported or our own will only last so long, there has to be a greener alternative, I'm a great believer that there are conspiracies afoot from major energy companies/governments around the world to maintain prices. There are alternatives out there IMO, but just like the alleged invention of the ever lasting light bulb, it will never get to market or the consumer.
ExxonMobil the worlds biggest oil company and the biggest profit maker iin the Worlds history were no where near Iraq. They built the pipe lines through Africa (cameroon) and through Russia. Both projects controlled from their London offices. They also built the plant on Saclin island on the Sino/Russian boarder(over £200 million investment). They brought/rented the port of Milford haven and brought 40% of Qatar Oil. Milford haven will be a staging post for LNG from Qatar and Russia. The ships have been designed and built by ExxonMobil and a new metal is being used in the ships double hul. Milford Haven will store the LNG for onward transport to the USA.
Three things (1) the biggest player in the markey couldnt give a sh*t about Iraq. (2)Its in companies like ExxonMobils intrest to find a replacement to oil , they invested over $400 million in doing that in 2006. (3) As an American company they are also looking after the USA supply of oil, gas etc. We in the UK have no real security of supply as all energy suppliers are Forign owned.
Comments
Kerry Katona
Danny Baker
Maggie Thatcher
Richard Littlejohn
She even bungled the privatisation of the national industries - selling them off far too cheaply and in the process making a whole raft of industrialists rich at our expense. Then there was the poll tax...
Neo Liberlism baited the trap--- Socialist Empires sent the supplies----and a Socialist icon`s ego brought the miners to the end of the road.
not from a book i was a Trade Union official and a Power Worker during those years.
PS i dont think coal has had is day. Prices of fuel will reach such a high and technology re CO2 will advance. Of course it will be "Forign" investors who see it and fund it.
Neo Liberlism baited the trap--- Socialist Empires sent the supplies----and a Socialist icon`s ego brought the miners to the end of the road.
not from a book i was a Trade Union official and a Power Worker during those years.
PS i dont think coal has had is day. Prices of fuel will reach such a high and technology re CO2 will advance. Of course it will be "Forign" investors who see it and fund it.[/quote]
So what should Scargill have done?
Consented to the massacre of the coal industry? Just watched and done nothing as tens of thousands of miners were thrown on the dole? His personality certainly didn't help, but he was no Joe Gormley who the National Coal Board used to drag down to London, then they would literally ply him so much alcohol that he could not only stand up but would agree to pretty much anything. Unfortunately Scargill was too much his own man and history has vindicated him.
The whole thing was a Thatcherite stitch up, from the importing of oil and coal to the massive subsidies given to nuclear power but were strangely not offered or were withdrawn from coal.
The knock-on was not just the death of the British coal industry but also steel too - coal being a vital component in making steel, and that in turn made car and ship building and construction more expensive. It might have been worth it had Thatcher had some plans to invest in new industries for the areas that were hardest hit, instead all that happened was that massive numbers of people went on the dole and we squandered north sea oil and gas revenues to keep them there and what wealth from the jobs in industry that were created went overseas.
Am I a "right-wing nutbag"?...do you know me well enough to make such a comment?
From UK suppliers? Minimal, most coal is imported and when North Sea oil and gas run out we'll no longer control energy creation in the UK, and that underpins the entire economy. Britain is a net importer of energy and especially oil and we have an economy backed by carbon fuels. That's ok while oil and gas prices are cheap but as we've seen in recent months oil is getting more expensive. Our attempt to secure oil supplies by colonisation (the Iraq war) has failed so we either reduce energy consumption (and imports) or go nuclear/green.
Bob crow
Adrian Chiles (long before he was on anything football related)
Tony Blair
Catherine Tate
Secondly, if it does crop up like now, and can't be debated maturely from either side, it will be deleted or sunk.
Your choice chaps.
I don't know about "right-wing", but the other half of the comment is on the money...
we lost 200,000 miners 60,000 power workers,+ 200,000 car workers, 100,000 steel workers, 100,000 shipworkers. Where did they go ? what are they doing now ?
George W Bush
Adam Sandler
Britney Spears
Bernie Ecclestone (oops, maybe I can't have him now!)
Why is it only my posts get deleted?
seconded
it's all too grown up and mature for me... let's stick to the footy, away support and food;-0
From UK suppliers? Minimal, most coal is imported and when North Sea oil and gas run out we'll no longer control energy creation in the UK, and that underpins the entire economy. Britain is a net importer of energy and especially oil and we have an economy backed by carbon fuels. That's ok while oil and gas prices are cheap but as we've seen in recent months oil is getting more expensive. Our attempt to secure oil supplies by colonisation (the Iraq war) has failed so we either reduce energy consumption (and imports) or go nuclear/green.[/quote]
Thats what worries me, coal, whether imported or our own will only last so long, there has to be a greener alternative, I'm a great believer that there are conspiracies afoot from major energy companies/governments around the world to maintain prices. There are alternatives out there IMO, but just like the alleged invention of the ever lasting light bulb, it will never get to market or the consumer.
That new bloke that does Soccer Am - Your not funny mate, just an idiot
Kerry Katona - The definition of a chav
Any Halifax employee!
Sara Cox - Face for radio and a voice for silent movies!
Amy Winehouse
Gordon Brown
Rick Stein (for taking over Padstow)
Tony Blair
Its not. You just notice yours.
ken livingstone
that bird that does Iceland advert
iain dowie - you did say non football
the person in charge at the HSE -
They built the pipe lines through Africa (cameroon) and through Russia. Both projects controlled from their London offices. They also built the plant on Saclin island on the Sino/Russian boarder(over £200 million investment). They brought/rented the port of Milford haven and brought 40% of Qatar Oil. Milford haven will be a staging post for LNG from Qatar and Russia. The ships have been designed and built by ExxonMobil and a new metal is being used in the ships double hul. Milford Haven will store the LNG for onward transport to the USA.
Three things (1) the biggest player in the markey couldnt give a sh*t about Iraq. (2)Its in companies like ExxonMobils intrest to find a replacement to oil , they invested over $400 million in doing that in 2006. (3) As an American company they are also looking after the USA supply of oil, gas etc. We in the UK have no real security of supply as all energy suppliers are Forign owned.
Mmmmmmmmmmmm
Give yourself a gold star :-)
Arsene Wenger
Alan Smith (footballer)
Kylie Minogue
Damon Albarn
Thanks...we'll be in The Alma tonight....mine's a Kronie...;-)
Amy Winehouse
Kerry Katona
John Barrowman
Davina McCall
the alma in sidcup?
No idea mate....