Perhaps with this forseen loss of ticket sales the club should set up a dedicated booing area. That way all the cynics, losers, and negative numpties can all have a whinge and a boo together and the rest of us can enjoy the game and support the team.
i think the people that boo will renew,the plastics dont bother with any emotion,postive or negative,i think pardew will walk at the end of the season,he has a touch of a spiv to me anyway.
Enjoy the game! You’re having a laugh most of the home games have left a lot to be desired and I personally don't enjoy seeing Charlton losing when it's for every bad reason other than the opposition out playing us.
I repeat I am not one of the people that booed at the game yesterday, but the self righteous attitude of those suggesting those that did should sit in a designated area beggar’s belief. Wanting to get rid of any fans just because they show their disapproval differently is recipe for financial disaster for the club.
When you are sitting with 3500 fans in an almost empty stadium you will find even then not every one will be of your thoughts. Been there done it and got the tee shirt.
Those you are castigating are just as likely to renew their season tickets as the rest of us, sure they showed their disapproval of the first half but they also demonstrated it matters to them and that they care. We all show our emotions toward the teams display in different ways. If some want to look at our performances this season with rose tinted glasses that’s their affair but for people to keep criticising those that react differently just creates the big divide.
The booing came over really badly on TV and was repeatedly picked up on by the commentators. Yes, the first half performance was poor, but to start booing after 20 mins and to boo the team off at half-time when they had just equalised was unbelievable - I was cringing.
Whilst I don't think it's up to the crowd to get the performance from the team, getting behind them vocally in a tough match does give them a lift - as we saw at times in the second half.
But almost as bad as the booing was the half empty ground with five mins to go. Might have been more difficult for Wolves to respond to our equaliser if there had still been a big home crowd there to roar us on to a point or three.
There's a time and a place for moaning - everyone needs to let off steam sometimes about what we've witnessed this season - but to do it when the team is actually showing some fight and passion, as they did in the second half, is well beyond reasonable. I almost sympathise with Pardew's exasperation at us!
As Ive said many times before, Im not a booer, but I dont have any rights whatsoever to castigate anybody who does. People go out to work and plough good money into watching football matches and they have every right to express themselves however they wish. The fundamental problem with this squad at the moment is that they arent really a Charlton team that we have come to expect. Apart from perhaps Holland and Paddy does anybody feel any affinity with this large bunch of misfits? Im Charlton through and through, but I dont feel like Im watching "my Charlton"....its a bunch of strangers masquerading around in Charlton Garb. So guys, lets not get on each others back about the booing......or perhaps this should be expanded to include the people who left in the last 10-15 mins what? 4...maybe 5,000 left in the stadium with 8 minutes to go......if some people have there way, then thats what we will be playing in front of again, and Im sure nobody on here wants that. We have grossly underachieved this season, I left last night thinking "thats it for this year" We have been running on empty now for some time.....Guys, lets not let the lack of passion showed on the pitch permeate in to what has been a loyal bunch of fans through slagging each other off on forums such as this...we are all entitled to express our feelings as paying customers, in whatever way that we see fit.
nail on head Tel, this rings out most prominently for me, with a handful of exceptions
[cite]Posted By: TelinOz[/cite]Im Charlton through and through, but I dont feel like Im watching "my Charlton"....its a bunch of strangers masquerading around in Charlton Garb
Its true of course, everyone is entitled to there opinion. But the booing has got out of hand. why boo at half time when we ve just equalised? I dont get it. Our team might not be great at the minute , but our support is crap .Its easy to sing when you re winning,real supporters sing all the time. Norwich were losing 4 0 at the valley,and their supporters never stopped singing and encouraging.
[cite]Posted By: TelinOz[/cite]As Ive said many times before, Im not a booer, but I dont have any rights whatsoever to castigate anybody who does. People go out to work and plough good money into watching football matches and they have every right to express themselves however they wish... we are all entitled to express our feelings as paying customers, in whatever way that we see fit.
I don't think that's very true for a start. The logical extension of this would end with every nut being attracted to The Valley on match day to hurl the kinds of bigotry we had in past times under some kind of "I paid, I can" licence. It all comes down to what kind of behaviour one is willing to accept. I'd like to think we could nurture more positive (no not uncritical, just constructive) forms of support, ways to vent and have opinions heard. But, ho hum, that's unlikely, especially if we're just customers ;-(
After all, the customer is always right and demands value for money, otherwise they'll take their money elsewhere (does that sound like the football supporter of old? The football supporter you want to be and see in numbers at The Valley?). Instant gratification at every transaction, just isn't going to work down at The Valley! The chips are too much stacked against us. We're the fodder for their cash cows. We make up the numbers.
[cite]Posted By: TelinOz[/cite]The fundamental problem with this squad at the moment is that they arent really a Charlton team that we have come to expect. Apart from perhaps Holland and Paddy does anybody feel any affinity with this large bunch of misfits? Im Charlton through and through, but I dont feel like Im watching "my Charlton"....its a bunch of strangers masquerading around in Charlton Garb.
Sounds like a team in transition. Things like team bonding take time. The kinds of memories we crave are forged in the heat of battle. Player's become heroes by doing what's expected (or more so) at unexpected times. Give them a chance; most of them are worth it. If it takes another season and a few new and worthy faces, then so be it. I think the a very good nucleus made up of good, young players and coaching staff are there and it bodes well for the future. But we need patience. We need football supporters (critical as well as constructive), not consumers.
I understand what you are saying loOKOut. Im sure a lot of fans feel the same way. Untill this season, and even more so inthe past, we had a settled squad of players who had been at the club for quite a few years.players who gave their all for the team plus passion and loyalty. there was just one or two changes to the squad each season. Now we have exactly the opposite.just a few of the old players with loads of signings who have nt endeared themselves to the fans with their passion and efforts. On top of this, the team has changed so many times that hardly anyone has become a fans favourite. I suspect this years player of the year will have few contenders. Hopefully next year with the players that stay having been here a bit longer, and a few new replacements, we may be able feel w bit better about the team.
In response to Lookout....."I don't think that's very true for a start. The logical extension of this would end with every nut being attracted to The Valley on match day to hurl the kinds of bigotry we had in past times under some kind of "I paid, I can" licence. It all comes down to what kind of behaviour one is willing to accept. I'd like to think we could nurture more positive (no not uncritical, just constructive) forms of support, ways to vent and have opinions heard. But, ho hum, that's unlikely, especially if we're just customers ;-("
Lookout.....Football is a business mate, if you think we are viewed as anything other than customers, then you are deluding yourself. I'll stick by my opinions, thats supposedly what this forum is all about. If we continue to serve up the sort of football we have been witnessing then eventually some people on here will get there wish and people will stop going...then we slide backwards as a club...who wants that? Meanwhile Im sure a minority will continue to boo, but hopefully the football served up between now and the end of the season will stop this in its tracks.....All will look a whole lot rosier when the results turn in our favour. Furthermore, your second highlighted paragraph....You used the word team...its a squad in transition, we havent seen a settled team all season due to the management tinkering...however, we seem no nearer to finding a starting 11 with just six games to go...its poor management. People are rightly pi**ed off with what we have been served up since Xmas with the exception of the Blackpool, Palace and Stoke home games. As for patience, I think we have been more than patient with 20K turning up week in week out.
[cite]Posted By: nolly[/cite]i have a idea,if they win a game people will cheer not boo?
oh come off it what do you expect ... we're charlton it never used to be this good remember where we've come from and remember we can still make the play offs
[cite]Posted By: TelinOz[/cite]Lookout.....Football is a business mate, if you think we are viewed as anything other than customers, then you are deluding yourself. I'll stick by my opinions, thats supposedly what this forum is all about.
No need to get in a huff, I was offering my opinion, which as you say, is what this is all about.
However others tread football and its supporters, I happen to think that Murray and co do a good job of recognising that, whilst football is a business, OUR club is also more than that. I think they recognise that supporters are not ONLY customers, but that tradition is important. They are supporters too.
I don't think anyone here disagrees with the idea that things are not well right now. I just happen to think there is a need for a long term perspective. Just a matter of a few months ago, there was widespread support for Supa Alan Pardew. We were right in the mix. Now, the wind has changed, due to poor performances. I can understand that, but I don't think it's time yet to abandon what has been a defining characteristic of Charlton's recent success: stability. I don't want to be seen as fickle supporters. Patience, by which I mean longterm patience, is needed to ensure that stability. Unity is needed, as several good posts have suggested. There are signs that the wind will change again; we're not dead and buried yet. For me, it's how the Club, Squad and Supporters react when the chips are down and the winds unfavourable. My opinion is that there should be some kind of constructive criticism of what has gone on to bring about our bad form, not call for sacking the manager, management team etc (different case to Dowie, who's sacking is down to off field misconducts etc).
In terms of this Forum, I think it is about opinions. But I had always wished it would be more than that. It could be a kind of modern supporters' club, where people would organise to make our support more active and unified, and our Club more attractive. Something to be proud of. Build towards a strong supporters culture with the ability to present some kind of supporter's influence on the Club when things look to be headed in the wrong direction. To help integrate "new" fans into our traditions. The Demelza Day, for example, was about that and is something I hope we're all proud of. Ketman and nss' away day coach is another example of people using the site and community constructively. I hope we're able to build on these and other similar projects in the future. Unfortunately, it seems this place of late has descended into sniping and pure negativity for negativity's sake. And that leaves me disillussioned. (I'm not aiming that personally at you Tel whatsoever, just a general comment).
I hope we're able to build on these and other similar projects in the future. Unfortunately, it seems this place of late has descended into sniping and pure negativity for negativity's sake. And that leaves me disillussioned. (I'm not aiming that personally at you Tel whatsoever, just a general comment).
........
I'm sure a few wins would put that right. It's certainly noticeable that after a defeat there are considerably more posts than after a win, and I think Henry mentioned in one of his columns that the club get more complaints after a defeat than after a win.
Part of the problem is that we need a few more "Charlton" players - too often over the last few years we've had a revolving door policy and such a turnover of playing staff meaning that only Holland, Sam, Thomas, Youga and Fortune have any kind of history with the club, none of whom are out and out club players, Holland is probably the only grafter in there, but the others have hardly been regulars, therefore there is little for the fans to identify with. Go back a few years and we had players like Kiely, Stuart, Rufus, Brown, Kinsella etc all of whom had their dodgy moments but you could at least look back and say they wore the club shirt with some pride. I suspect many of us regard the current crop nad many of those who've played over the previous season or two as mercanaries content to pick up a salary whether we win or lose, and no matter how well or poorly thery play.
That and I also suspect that the years of prem football has bred an expectation that we belong in Premiership and our season in the CCC would be a temporary blip and therefore the fans expect victory now and to dominate other teams etc and walk away with promotion. With the way the club is structured and financed I don't think we'll see the days of 2000-20003 back until maybe we've had either a couple of years of solid consolidation around a few players who appear to be playing for pride and their careers rather than their salaries, or until Pardew finds the correct and hitherto elusive formula to construct a successful team from a somewhat bloated squad. Right now it looks as though he's shuffling the pack more in hope than expectation and I think that is filtering through to the fans.
Overall I'm even more grateful for Darren Bent, in hindsight his goalscoring ability papered over quite a few cracks. If for whatever reason he hadn't signed for us, maybe we'd have been in this situation a couple of years earlier than now.
Couple of great posts there Black Forest and Lookout. Im all for unity, always have been, but its quite devastating to see the crowds dwindle away like they did in the last 10 mins of the game against Wolves (especially as so much time was spent discussing the booing), and I for one am fearing for the worst for next season. I dont think Ive ever called outright for Pardew's head, but as I have said many times, I wish he would keep his mouth shut....especially where the fans are concerned. I do however think that the TEAM (whichever one that is) owe us a performance. Pardew of late has become the new "Tinkerman" and the results, and in particular the performances have been pretty poor.
Comments
Think people moan about the players and management but our support needs the boooing at the moment
I think there will be all sorts of reasons why people wont renew and the season ticket sales will clearly fall by several thousand.
And if the team underperforms next year you will get the same proportion of booers. So the effect will be the same.
I dont know what can be done about but pretending it is going to disappear overnight is unrealistic.
I dont like it and agree that it is counterproductive, particularly during play. But there must be some reasons for it.
I repeat I am not one of the people that booed at the game yesterday, but the self righteous attitude of those suggesting those that did should sit in a designated area beggar’s belief. Wanting to get rid of any fans just because they show their disapproval differently is recipe for financial disaster for the club.
When you are sitting with 3500 fans in an almost empty stadium you will find even then not every one will be of your thoughts. Been there done it and got the tee shirt.
Those you are castigating are just as likely to renew their season tickets as the rest of us, sure they showed their disapproval of the first half but they also demonstrated it matters to them and that they care. We all show our emotions toward the teams display in different ways. If some want to look at our performances this season with rose tinted glasses that’s their affair but for people to keep criticising those that react differently just creates the big divide.
Defeats the object of being a supporter in my book
'Defeats the object of being a supporter in my book'
Maybe it does and you’re entitled to that view but going over the top as some are only creates a divide, which is even more negative.
Whilst I don't think it's up to the crowd to get the performance from the team, getting behind them vocally in a tough match does give them a lift - as we saw at times in the second half.
But almost as bad as the booing was the half empty ground with five mins to go. Might have been more difficult for Wolves to respond to our equaliser if there had still been a big home crowd there to roar us on to a point or three.
There's a time and a place for moaning - everyone needs to let off steam sometimes about what we've witnessed this season - but to do it when the team is actually showing some fight and passion, as they did in the second half, is well beyond reasonable. I almost sympathise with Pardew's exasperation at us!
Must better second half bar the last 10 minutes.
So yesterday we had 20,000 customers.
But what we need is 20,000 SUPPORTERS.....!
So all we need is a quick aria from Mr Murray.
And I seem to recall Charlton being voted 5th in the whole of the 4 leagues in terms of catering. That I never did get.
I don't think that's very true for a start. The logical extension of this would end with every nut being attracted to The Valley on match day to hurl the kinds of bigotry we had in past times under some kind of "I paid, I can" licence. It all comes down to what kind of behaviour one is willing to accept. I'd like to think we could nurture more positive (no not uncritical, just constructive) forms of support, ways to vent and have opinions heard. But, ho hum, that's unlikely, especially if we're just customers ;-(
After all, the customer is always right and demands value for money, otherwise they'll take their money elsewhere (does that sound like the football supporter of old? The football supporter you want to be and see in numbers at The Valley?). Instant gratification at every transaction, just isn't going to work down at The Valley! The chips are too much stacked against us. We're the fodder for their cash cows. We make up the numbers.
Sounds like a team in transition. Things like team bonding take time. The kinds of memories we crave are forged in the heat of battle. Player's become heroes by doing what's expected (or more so) at unexpected times. Give them a chance; most of them are worth it. If it takes another season and a few new and worthy faces, then so be it. I think the a very good nucleus made up of good, young players and coaching staff are there and it bodes well for the future. But we need patience. We need football supporters (critical as well as constructive), not consumers.
Enough said
Lookout.....Football is a business mate, if you think we are viewed as anything other than customers, then you are deluding yourself. I'll stick by my opinions, thats supposedly what this forum is all about. If we continue to serve up the sort of football we have been witnessing then eventually some people on here will get there wish and people will stop going...then we slide backwards as a club...who wants that? Meanwhile Im sure a minority will continue to boo, but hopefully the football served up between now and the end of the season will stop this in its tracks.....All will look a whole lot rosier when the results turn in our favour. Furthermore, your second highlighted paragraph....You used the word team...its a squad in transition, we havent seen a settled team all season due to the management tinkering...however, we seem no nearer to finding a starting 11 with just six games to go...its poor management. People are rightly pi**ed off with what we have been served up since Xmas with the exception of the Blackpool, Palace and Stoke home games. As for patience, I think we have been more than patient with 20K turning up week in week out.
oh come off it what do you expect ... we're charlton it never used to be this good remember where we've come from and remember we can still make the play offs
No need to get in a huff, I was offering my opinion, which as you say, is what this is all about.
However others tread football and its supporters, I happen to think that Murray and co do a good job of recognising that, whilst football is a business, OUR club is also more than that. I think they recognise that supporters are not ONLY customers, but that tradition is important. They are supporters too.
I don't think anyone here disagrees with the idea that things are not well right now. I just happen to think there is a need for a long term perspective. Just a matter of a few months ago, there was widespread support for Supa Alan Pardew. We were right in the mix. Now, the wind has changed, due to poor performances. I can understand that, but I don't think it's time yet to abandon what has been a defining characteristic of Charlton's recent success: stability. I don't want to be seen as fickle supporters. Patience, by which I mean longterm patience, is needed to ensure that stability. Unity is needed, as several good posts have suggested. There are signs that the wind will change again; we're not dead and buried yet. For me, it's how the Club, Squad and Supporters react when the chips are down and the winds unfavourable. My opinion is that there should be some kind of constructive criticism of what has gone on to bring about our bad form, not call for sacking the manager, management team etc (different case to Dowie, who's sacking is down to off field misconducts etc).
In terms of this Forum, I think it is about opinions. But I had always wished it would be more than that. It could be a kind of modern supporters' club, where people would organise to make our support more active and unified, and our Club more attractive. Something to be proud of. Build towards a strong supporters culture with the ability to present some kind of supporter's influence on the Club when things look to be headed in the wrong direction. To help integrate "new" fans into our traditions. The Demelza Day, for example, was about that and is something I hope we're all proud of. Ketman and nss' away day coach is another example of people using the site and community constructively. I hope we're able to build on these and other similar projects in the future. Unfortunately, it seems this place of late has descended into sniping and pure negativity for negativity's sake. And that leaves me disillussioned. (I'm not aiming that personally at you Tel whatsoever, just a general comment).
........
I'm sure a few wins would put that right. It's certainly noticeable that after a defeat there are considerably more posts than after a win, and I think Henry mentioned in one of his columns that the club get more complaints after a defeat than after a win.
Part of the problem is that we need a few more "Charlton" players - too often over the last few years we've had a revolving door policy and such a turnover of playing staff meaning that only Holland, Sam, Thomas, Youga and Fortune have any kind of history with the club, none of whom are out and out club players, Holland is probably the only grafter in there, but the others have hardly been regulars, therefore there is little for the fans to identify with. Go back a few years and we had players like Kiely, Stuart, Rufus, Brown, Kinsella etc all of whom had their dodgy moments but you could at least look back and say they wore the club shirt with some pride. I suspect many of us regard the current crop nad many of those who've played over the previous season or two as mercanaries content to pick up a salary whether we win or lose, and no matter how well or poorly thery play.
That and I also suspect that the years of prem football has bred an expectation that we belong in Premiership and our season in the CCC would be a temporary blip and therefore the fans expect victory now and to dominate other teams etc and walk away with promotion. With the way the club is structured and financed I don't think we'll see the days of 2000-20003 back until maybe we've had either a couple of years of solid consolidation around a few players who appear to be playing for pride and their careers rather than their salaries, or until Pardew finds the correct and hitherto elusive formula to construct a successful team from a somewhat bloated squad. Right now it looks as though he's shuffling the pack more in hope than expectation and I think that is filtering through to the fans.
Overall I'm even more grateful for Darren Bent, in hindsight his goalscoring ability papered over quite a few cracks. If for whatever reason he hadn't signed for us, maybe we'd have been in this situation a couple of years earlier than now.