Hard as it may be to believe, I take no pleasure in 'I told you so' and I doubt oohaah does either. I'm not so sure about the likely future for the three promoted teams - to me that's irrelevant. What is really disappointing is that we have wasted our resources and the opportunity to get back at the first attempt, especially as the way this league has turned out it was there for the taking. It will only get much harder.
Above all, it is the lack of progress that is so frustrating - for a while we were looking like contenders, but in the past 3-4 months we have more often than not been a shambles. I believe we do have some individually talented players, but just like England (?!), it's up to the coaches and management to get that out of them and get them playing in the right formation with confidence and belief. I've seen little evidence of that happening.
exactly weegie .. i'll say it how i see it not how i hope/dream it will be.... and i thought we'd DEFINITELY make the play offs pre christmas time and we still might....
Can't help thinking next season will be far far tougher than this...
three premiership teams coming down with the largest TV deal and parachute payment structure ever... all likely to have wealthy banking, for instance Derby, Fulham, Birmingham, Sunderland, Wigan, etc.
QPR are minted. Ipswich have a new sugar daddy and a fantastic academy. One or two of Watford, West Brom, Stoke will probably be around next season. There will still be a whole host of horrible places to go as well...
I don't think anyone can realistically can disagree with the bulk that oohaah and Weegie are saying. Take a step back, and they are perfectly right on the majority of it.
What is / was frustrating were that some gave up on this manager / team far too early in the season. Of course, it looks like they will be proved right, but that is not to say that everyone else were wrong for trying to look to the positives.
Surely that's one of the fundamental aspects of being a 'supporter' ?
We may well of screwed this season, though it is by no means a forgone conclusion, but that does not mean in any way that you can write next season off under the same regime now. There may well be more teams with fresh income to splash around, but there is no guarantee they will spend it any more wisely that we did this year.
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]is the season over yet? no ones told me
not yet no... but it's worth looking to next year and I'm afraid I see it more likely the considerations in my post will be more appropriate to us than how we will find the funds to compete in the Premiership League 4
we go down with the biggest budget in the league,the majority of the supporters choice as the best manager available.first choice on any player not quite up to the premier.one of the highest home crowds.
i wasn't expecting to be sitting in 10th at the end of march and being told that this is progress.
Oooahh, What makes you think that our team should be better than any of the other teams in this league? yes granted, there is a huge difference in wages, between us and half of the league, but we were an established premier league club, and therefore we could pay these wages and make promises to players as we hoped to return to the premiership (note the word is hope!)
As our focus is on our side, we know our players well, and I don't claim to know the ins and outs of the other top 8 teams currently in the Championship, so I wouldn't assume that we 'should' be better than them. remember some of them are on 2,3 or 5 or so year plans to get promoted and have been steadily achieving greater things year on year, we're on a blip, we were relegated and lost some of our best players, lost our confidence, but still hoped that things would be ok.
Ok, so it turns out we're not as good as we had aspirations to be, and this league is open, exciting and inconsistent. I think to say it is substandard is mightily unfair. The same could be said for the bottom 12 of the Premiership?
You've been spoilt ooahh and you're expecting too much - too soon.
Suz how do you know these teams are on 2,3,4,5 year plans,how the hell can anyone plan that far ahead if we had that ethos we should have finished each year in a stronger position in the premiership,what happened Curbs had enough,Parker wanted to go as did Murphy,you can't plan that far in advance,all the clubs want to get up as soon as possible so all this future planning is a load of tosh.You can plan ahead sign a nice big sponsorship deal and it goes tots up (sound familiar) a tv deal can go tits up (sound familiar).All you can do is plan for the coming season because in football who knows what is round the corner.i wasn't that impressed after the first couple of games but after winning against Preston,Cardiff home and away and Ipswich I really thought the league was there for the taking,what we have been served up since Christmas with the exception of 2 home performances against Palace and Stoke has been utter tosh.I'm not arrogant but I will tell you one thing if we dont go up this or next year,we will become a run of the mill championship team,which we haven't been for a bloody long time.Let's talk about plans then.Suz this aint a dig at you,but I really do think all this talk of plans is rubbish as nothing is certain in football.
[cite]Posted By: ThreadKiller[/cite]what should our expectations be though?
we go down with the biggest budget in the league,the majority of the supporters choice as the best manager available.first choice on any player not quite up to the premier.one of the highest home crowds.
i wasn't expecting to be sitting in 10th at the end of march and being told that this is progress.
"Posted By: ThreadKiller
what should our expectations be though?
i wasn't expecting to be sitting in 10th at the end of march and being told that this is progress."
its not just about money though is it. the team is disjointed, lacking in confidence and has gone through a massive change in the last 2 seasons.
I think those that thought it was going to be fun like it was 10 years ago were really naive.
I don't think anyone is saying we've made progress, we clearly haven't, but I don't think we should have been expecting it to be easy, just because we had been in the premiership for a while. we punched above our weight for a few years up there, on the lowest fees, the lowest payments for players etc.
I'm disappointed to be 10th, as i thought we'd be in the play offs, which we still can do, this season is not a success as some would have hoped although its not the complete failure that people are making it out to be. yet.
[cite]Posted By: northstandsteve[/cite]
Suz how do you know these teams are on 2,3,4,5 year plans,how the hell can anyone plan that far ahead if we had that ethos we should have finished each year in a stronger position in the premiership,what happened Curbs had enough,Parker wanted to go as did Murphy,you can't plan that far in advance,all the clubs want to get up as soon as possible so all this future planning is a load of tosh.You can plan ahead sign a nice big sponsorship deal and it goes tots up (sound familiar) a tv deal can go tits up (sound familiar).All you can do is plan for the coming season because in football who knows what is round the corner.i wasn't that impressed after the first couple of games but after winning against Preston,Cardiff home and away and Ipswich I really thought the league was there for the taking,what we have been served up since Christmas with the exception of 2 home performances against Palace and Stoke has been utter tosh.I'm not arrogant but I will tell you one thing if we dont go up this or next year,we will become a run of the mill championship team,which we haven't been for a bloody long time.Let's talk about plans then.Suz this aint a dig at you,but I really do think all this talk of plans is rubbish as nothing is certain in football.
I obviously don't know, but there are budgets for these things, only budgets would be planned for the next season as I'm sure all teams in dodgy situations are planning for 2 outcomes, as we did last season surely because of the staying up/going down thing.
I dont know how all the clubs do their business, but when we were in the championship we had aspirations to be leicester in the prem, although it wasn't set in stone, i dare say behind the scenes there were long term plans and ideas put in place to ensure those targets were met. Why wouldn't other clubs be doing the same?
we've heard the rumours of the 2 year pardew plan, whether its true or not, no one knows, but it certainly makes sense. The qpr money thing is rumoured to be a 2-3 yr plan rather than a "spend all money and demand success overnight" fad.
its just my take on things that the clubs that are established in the championship will be looking to the future and hoping to over-achieve (hull?) or achieve the best they can, and then work on that for the next season. any business has a long term plan...? they will also have confidence behind them perhaps depending on what happened last year (I wasn't watching the championship last year to be honest,a nd quite honestly have no clue as to who finished where so won't claim to know!:-) )
Bookies had us as favourites to go up as champions.
They dont often get it wrong. Did this time.
So I dont think we need to beat ourselves up about it and say we were arrogant. Pardew and the Squad have underperformed and have 6 maybe 9 games to prove us/them right/wrong as case may be.
[cite]Posted By: Imissthepeanutman[/cite]Bookies had us as favourites to go up as champions.
That would have been purely on the basis that we had been in the PL for several seasons, it would not have taken into account the fact that we had to ditch almost all our players.
I don't buy into this whole 'massive changes to the team' thing. Surely if that was the case, we would've got better rather then progressively worse. Also, they are professional footballers with a professional coaching staff. It doesn't take -that- long, i.e an entire season, just for them to get used to each other. The problems we have seen on the pitch have not come from a 'new team', but naivety, a lack of a winning mentality and some poor tactics.
I had us in with a decent play off chance never thought we would be below 6th, but thought that automatic was going to be difficult, but never thought until maybe two weeks ago that we would struggle for even a play off place. Having thought it maybe a difficult league what has dissapointed me more than the possibility of miussing out on the play offs is the lack of entertaining football, with a few exceptions which have been limited to 45 minutes the football has been attritonal and dire, earleir someone has quoted this as exciting football, well I struggle to remember the games that were exciting against the boring ones.
[cite]Posted By: Imissthepeanutman[/cite]Bookies had us as favourites to go up as champions.
They dont often get it wrong. Did this time.
So I dont think we need to beat ourselves up about it and say we were arrogant. Pardew and the Squad have underperformed and have 6 maybe 9 games to prove us/them right/wrong as case may be.
Bookies often had us a favs to go down when we were in the prem so they don't always get it "right" in that sense. What they do get right is to match odds to the money.
Otherwise agree with you Peanutman. We have underperformed IMHO and not coped well with the raft of injuries.
It is still possible for us to go up via the play-offs and I really hope we can do it as I can't see it getting any easier next year. 2/3/4/5 year plans are great but you also have to take the opportunities that come your way as there is no guarentee that they will knock again.
We might be 10th, but the league table also says we're only a couple of points away from a playoff place.
You know, somebody could be dragging this thread up in 3 or 4 weeks time - and maybe we will be in 4th place having just won 3 games on the trot. You never know.
Still nobody in the top half is showing any glimmer of promotion form except Hull, busily picking off mainly the relegation fodder - but their fixture list gets much tougher for the run in. So does Ipswich's run in.
I'm not expert but don't bookies generally call things and follow the money so to speak so they don't get done over, rather than make an out an out prediction.
There were some who began to have reservations about Pardew earlier on in the season, myself amongst them - although I was keen to be proved otherwise. However I wouldn't criticise anyone for having a different view, its not a question of being right or wrong its just giving ones view or take on the situation at hand.
My own view is that Pardew doesn't seem to have much of clue in the circumstances he's in, although he has arguably lost his best players/talisman/leader/playmaker which can account for 30-40% the other 60-70% seems to be his purchases and decisions/tactics, and luck or course. But hey we should be safe from relegation.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]2/3/4/5 year plans are great but you also have to take the opportunities that come your way as there is no guarentee that they will knock again.
We went up via the play offs ahead of schedule and it did not do us any harm, I suspect that Derby will be able to claim the same
Comments
yeah and so has my vet's league;-)
Hard as it may be to believe, I take no pleasure in 'I told you so' and I doubt oohaah does either. I'm not so sure about the likely future for the three promoted teams - to me that's irrelevant. What is really disappointing is that we have wasted our resources and the opportunity to get back at the first attempt, especially as the way this league has turned out it was there for the taking. It will only get much harder.
Above all, it is the lack of progress that is so frustrating - for a while we were looking like contenders, but in the past 3-4 months we have more often than not been a shambles. I believe we do have some individually talented players, but just like England (?!), it's up to the coaches and management to get that out of them and get them playing in the right formation with confidence and belief. I've seen little evidence of that happening.
Will England give Cappello 40+ games?
three premiership teams coming down with the largest TV deal and parachute payment structure ever... all likely to have wealthy banking, for instance Derby, Fulham, Birmingham, Sunderland, Wigan, etc.
QPR are minted. Ipswich have a new sugar daddy and a fantastic academy. One or two of Watford, West Brom, Stoke will probably be around next season. There will still be a whole host of horrible places to go as well...
however if we dont go up i completely agree with ISLS. next yrs champ will be more difficult and we might have to get used to mid table mediocrity
very true.
What is / was frustrating were that some gave up on this manager / team far too early in the season. Of course, it looks like they will be proved right, but that is not to say that everyone else were wrong for trying to look to the positives.
Surely that's one of the fundamental aspects of being a 'supporter' ?
We may well of screwed this season, though it is by no means a forgone conclusion, but that does not mean in any way that you can write next season off under the same regime now. There may well be more teams with fresh income to splash around, but there is no guarantee they will spend it any more wisely that we did this year.
not yet no... but it's worth looking to next year and I'm afraid I see it more likely the considerations in my post will be more appropriate to us than how we will find the funds to compete in the Premiership League 4
we go down with the biggest budget in the league,the majority of the supporters choice as the best manager available.first choice on any player not quite up to the premier.one of the highest home crowds.
i wasn't expecting to be sitting in 10th at the end of march and being told that this is progress.
Suz how do you know these teams are on 2,3,4,5 year plans,how the hell can anyone plan that far ahead if we had that ethos we should have finished each year in a stronger position in the premiership,what happened Curbs had enough,Parker wanted to go as did Murphy,you can't plan that far in advance,all the clubs want to get up as soon as possible so all this future planning is a load of tosh.You can plan ahead sign a nice big sponsorship deal and it goes tots up (sound familiar) a tv deal can go tits up (sound familiar).All you can do is plan for the coming season because in football who knows what is round the corner.i wasn't that impressed after the first couple of games but after winning against Preston,Cardiff home and away and Ipswich I really thought the league was there for the taking,what we have been served up since Christmas with the exception of 2 home performances against Palace and Stoke has been utter tosh.I'm not arrogant but I will tell you one thing if we dont go up this or next year,we will become a run of the mill championship team,which we haven't been for a bloody long time.Let's talk about plans then.Suz this aint a dig at you,but I really do think all this talk of plans is rubbish as nothing is certain in football.
100% right.
what should our expectations be though?
i wasn't expecting to be sitting in 10th at the end of march and being told that this is progress."
its not just about money though is it. the team is disjointed, lacking in confidence and has gone through a massive change in the last 2 seasons.
I think those that thought it was going to be fun like it was 10 years ago were really naive.
I don't think anyone is saying we've made progress, we clearly haven't, but I don't think we should have been expecting it to be easy, just because we had been in the premiership for a while. we punched above our weight for a few years up there, on the lowest fees, the lowest payments for players etc.
I'm disappointed to be 10th, as i thought we'd be in the play offs, which we still can do, this season is not a success as some would have hoped although its not the complete failure that people are making it out to be. yet.
god ... did someone say this was progress? I cant believe that.
I obviously don't know, but there are budgets for these things, only budgets would be planned for the next season as I'm sure all teams in dodgy situations are planning for 2 outcomes, as we did last season surely because of the staying up/going down thing.
I dont know how all the clubs do their business, but when we were in the championship we had aspirations to be leicester in the prem, although it wasn't set in stone, i dare say behind the scenes there were long term plans and ideas put in place to ensure those targets were met. Why wouldn't other clubs be doing the same?
we've heard the rumours of the 2 year pardew plan, whether its true or not, no one knows, but it certainly makes sense. The qpr money thing is rumoured to be a 2-3 yr plan rather than a "spend all money and demand success overnight" fad.
its just my take on things that the clubs that are established in the championship will be looking to the future and hoping to over-achieve (hull?) or achieve the best they can, and then work on that for the next season. any business has a long term plan...? they will also have confidence behind them perhaps depending on what happened last year (I wasn't watching the championship last year to be honest,a nd quite honestly have no clue as to who finished where so won't claim to know!:-) )
They dont often get it wrong. Did this time.
So I dont think we need to beat ourselves up about it and say we were arrogant. Pardew and the Squad have underperformed and have 6 maybe 9 games to prove us/them right/wrong as case may be.
Bookies often had us a favs to go down when we were in the prem so they don't always get it "right" in that sense. What they do get right is to match odds to the money.
Otherwise agree with you Peanutman. We have underperformed IMHO and not coped well with the raft of injuries.
It is still possible for us to go up via the play-offs and I really hope we can do it as I can't see it getting any easier next year. 2/3/4/5 year plans are great but you also have to take the opportunities that come your way as there is no guarentee that they will knock again.
We might be 10th, but the league table also says we're only a couple of points away from a playoff place.
You know, somebody could be dragging this thread up in 3 or 4 weeks time - and maybe we will be in 4th place having just won 3 games on the trot. You never know.
Still nobody in the top half is showing any glimmer of promotion form except Hull, busily picking off mainly the relegation fodder - but their fixture list gets much tougher for the run in. So does Ipswich's run in.
It can all change again very quickly.
There were some who began to have reservations about Pardew earlier on in the season, myself amongst them - although I was keen to be proved otherwise. However I wouldn't criticise anyone for having a different view, its not a question of being right or wrong its just giving ones view or take on the situation at hand.
My own view is that Pardew doesn't seem to have much of clue in the circumstances he's in, although he has arguably lost his best players/talisman/leader/playmaker which can account for 30-40% the other 60-70% seems to be his purchases and decisions/tactics, and luck or course. But hey we should be safe from relegation.
We went up via the play offs ahead of schedule and it did not do us any harm, I suspect that Derby will be able to claim the same