[cite]Posted By: Reamsofverse[/cite]When we were 2-0 down today I looked at the last time we went on to win after being behind and it was Sheff Weds, yes that long ago.
When 2-0 down in that game - the thought had crossed my mind at half time to back us to go down. at that moment IMO we deserved to be relegated.
I used to think that you might have just been a pessimistic fan of the golfaddick variety, but after that comment, I KNOW you MUST be on a wind-up.
[cite]Posted By: WelshAddick[/cite]rufus you are correct, but unless we adopt an american draft system this is the future.
Shame, isn´t it. I´m stumpted and pissed off. But, I´m sure if we beat Sheff Utd, we´ll all be alot happier. Football is a very fickle game.
All this money talk is why I want the Arse to win the Prem. I don´t like them much, but teams like Chelski and now Glazer Utd make me sick. And that challenge on Edwardo was EVIL.
yes true about arsenal, the only thing in chelskis defence is that its boring as a two horse race now there is 3 teams and to give them credit they are in the carling cup final because thet take it seriously the others dont.
I was home in Surrey by 8:30 tonight after watching that absolute shambles. Quite simply Blackpool wanted it so much more than we did. They competed for every single ball all over the pitch. We looked almost arrogant at times, as though our superior class (??) entitled us to win just through turning up. Apart from Matty, who was superb throughout, I struggle to remember one of our players actually bothering to tackle somebody. ZZ had a nightmare & each & every member of the back 4 today should seriously consider giving up football as a way of earning a living.
It was totally embarrassing. Dickov was superb for them. Their two small strikers supported by two small, quick wingers just ran rings around us. OK the ground was almost conference standard & there was a gale force wind blowing down the pitch, having gathered speed as it crossed the Irish Sea, but we showed no fight or desire at all.
I've got a ticket for Sheffield next Saturday but there is no way I am going all that way again.
It was also very disturbing to see the way the players turned on Halford after his cock up lead to the 4th goal. I thought Paddy was going to thump him. Even Matty displayed open disgust. There is something not right in this team & I fear that Pards has a real battle on his hands to keep us in the play off spots now.
He got in a right tangle with Weaver that just allowed Dickov to roll the ball into an empty net. He had all the time in the world to clear the ball but started dithering instead. That was the killer moment to be honest, because we might have come back from just 1 goal down.
Talking to a West Ham fan the other day + went up to see the game...
Curbishley will grind out win after win but bore you to death after a few years. Pardew builds teams with attacking flair - we have had an entertaining 14 months and the next 14 will be equally interesting.
Automatic promotion was never really on the cards after Dec/jan points tally so now we just need the team to gel (as it did vs Palace) in the run in and hope we can beat the likes of Watford in the play off semis
We all know that whatever happens the club will be in a completely different shape by May 2009 so lets enjoy the ride
I have been too fed up to post until now. I pity anybody who went to the game given the performance. I am generally loathe to criticise Pards because, unlike many who are posting on this thread, I do think he is a decent manager. I do have to question a few things after the last three performances.
1. Against Sheff Wed, why did we not have Basey on the bench especially when Pards decided to take off Youga at half-time?
2. Against Watford, why didn't Pards not have Semedo on the bench which would have been the obvious change to have made at half time to protect the two goal lead?
3. Against Watford and Blackpool, why the hell didn't he play Sodje instead of Fortune?
4. Why play a semi-fit Cook today instead of a fit Sam or Thomas?
5. Against Sheff Wed, Blackpool and pretty much all our away games since just before Christmas, why has Pards abandoned 4-5-1 which delivered such a good away record earlier in the season?
My biggest problem with Pards is that sometimes he tries to be too clever for his own good. I also blame players who didn't fancy it today, presumably because of the scummy surroundings and the strong wind?
As for the future, well unless Magic is fit, (and maybe even if he is), Sodje needs to play - we need a commanding presence. I also think that Semedo needs to come back in to the team, especially away from home.
Those who were prepared for us to beat Palarse but fail to go up maybe wondering why they wished for it?
great last point i thought of that myself this afternoon,and again if 4-5-1 is workin away from home dont change it,coz since we have we aint won feck all away from home.
Had a couple of drunken chat's with lifer's and non-lifer's who were staying up there, to say i was envious would have been an understatement especially after that shower of shite.
Average Fortune performance = SHIT, easily being caught out of position.
Basey had a fair performance in my opinion, being next to Fortune can't help him?
Halford also had a fair performace imo. But when ZZ, Ambrose and Gray give the ball away so easily, it's not exactly going to help the defence. ZZ seriously need's to open his eyes (no pun intended) and spot a player with space, gives the ball away far too cheaply.
Cook impressed me, showed some experience and could spot a good pass. Varney also worked hard.
Actually thought we played some good stuff in some parts, which we should be doing against a team full of clementines. But still most certainly not good enough.
5. Against Sheff Wed, Blackpool and pretty much all our away games since just before Christmas, why has Pards abandoned 4-5-1 which delivered such a good away record earlier in the season?
And why did he take so long to start playing 4-4-2 at home? It seems to take him months to see something that is blatantly obvious to the vast majority. I'm afraid, as Len said, Pards thinks he is too good for Charlton. He is a big time Charlie (drives a Ferrari doesn't he?). This attitude has to rub off on the players, hence the reason we get turned over by all the bottom teams and do well against the best teams. Should have taken the team to Bogner for the week rather than Marbellla. Reward them when when they start consistently achieving and not before. I don't think we have a weak squad, in fact I think we have a very strong squad, the problems are A) Wrong formation (tactics) B) Poor team selection C)Lack of motivation
I look at it this way When Pardew first came we got a few results and things started to look good but at the business end it went bad and we went down.
Sold most of the team so got the players for this league to get us up. At the start it was must have time to gel. We are still in the play off places but only because this is a poor league.
The loan signings have not set the team a light and they should or why have them if they aint much better than we already have.
What to do from now I dont know but we should do some thing.
Pardew picks the team how many on here would pick Fortune?, I wouldn't but some how he is picked.
I will still stay up til late oclock to follow the team with no radio coverage because all said and done I am Charlton til I die
[cite]Posted By: cafc_in_perth[/cite]I look at it this way
When Pardew first came we got a few results and things started to look good but at the business end it went bad and we went down.
I think that, when Pards arrived we where 8 pts from safety. At the end of the season we had a 5 pt gap. So all in all we made up 3 pts in half a season.
Didn't go yesterday, but went to scunny, I think the blame has to go to both the players and Pards between them they should be able to sort it out. All we ask is that a bit of effort is put in and some pride in the shirt. I don't expect us to win every game, but I do expect us to try to win every game.
Supporting a club through thick and thin is not easy, especially when you find it hard to put a reason to things.
A couple of weeks ago against Palarse I really thought we were on the move. Some of the football we played was superb and Palarse hardly had a sniff. Ok they weren't anything special but our players were focussed, up for it and skillful. By all accounts though, especially yesterday, the team looked over-confident and with too little desire; why?
I just wonder if there's some unhappiness behind the scenes and going on a training camp under those circumstances may have made things worse not better.
1. Why is Sodje not on the teamsheet, bearing in mind he was our best defender and made a huge difference to our defensive stability before he was suspended/injured?
2. What is the position regarding Thomas? He has had some mystery illness/injury but he should be inked onto the team sheet every week.
3. Semedo was extremely effective for much of the first part of the season but he's now been relegated to a bit part player.
4. Moo2 who Pards was raving about at the start of the season, has had his position taken by two different loan players.
5. Racon has hardly had a sniff.
6. Youga coming back has been good on the pitch but maybe it's had a damaging effect off it.
7. McLeod must be wondering why he ever signed for us.
The team that started the season has changed radically from the one which started yesterday and that could lead to a poisonous atmosphere behind the scenes. I'm not in the know, so this is mere speculation but team bonding is a very good thing to have but things can easily go awry if there are too many around with personal agendas.
I also wonder what effect the selling of Reid had on morale, bearing in mind he seemed to be a very popular player to have around the club.
In the end though we need to get back on track against the Blades. I think Pards will shuffle the pack again so at least some who are unhappy might get their chance.
At the risk of sounding like a deranged lunatic - I don't think either Dowie or Read would have done any worse this season with this lot! Pardew hasn't bought the right type of player for this division, fair enough he wants to play good football but you need a few solid players that don't take any prisoners. In fact I reckon Dowie would have at least built a team that would fight in this division. But he was a crap Prem manager and he had to go. I think Pardew will turn it around given half a chance, but I really feel this year is gonna be a write off, I just can't see us stringing a run together, we are too inconsistent. Theres no point getting rid of Pards, a new manager will need time to bed in and would prob want to change half the team again. But if he walked I wouldn't feel bad about it, infact I think I might almost cheer a bit - The thought of Parky as manager - Woo hoo!!! ;-)
Sorry Reams, I'm not an advocate of Pards. My point was that I reckon he will sort it all out if he's still with us next season. I agree with you that he has had more than long enough to get his own players in. The majority of which are not up to the job, they are mostly average Championship players. I just feel we need to toughen up, but given that the transfer window has now closed thats not gonna happen now, so we have to grin and bear it until we can get some tough tackling ball winning players in our central midfield positions. Holland is doing ok but he's not getting any younger, if he was to get injured I think we would really in trouble, our midfield is a joke, they are all pansies!
Of course some of us are angry after that performance. We were outplayed and outfought all over the pitch by a team that wanted it more than us.
Taking the squad to Spain to prepare??? They should have gone to Aberdeen. At least some of them have now got nice tans...
Someone earlier said we'd had 14 months of entertainment from Pardew. I can think of many words to describe it, but that isn't one of them. I can't help but wonder if the reason he allegedly left West Ham makes it a bit difficult for him to earn the respect of the squad.
My god there is some negativity on here. The problem is one of expectation.
We are discrediting Blackpool who were better than us in every department on the day. I also dont think they were so poor when we beat them 4-1.
Of the so called top teams at Bloomfield Road they have drawn with Bristol City,Plymouth,Palace and Ipswich. They have yet to play WBA and Watford. Stoke won there 3-2.
So on a windswept bumpy pitch why did everybody expect us to turn up and stuff them. Cos we were in the Premiership for a few years!!
Blackpool reminded me of Charlton about 15 years ago. A club on the up, trying to rebuild their ground bit by bit and players giving 110%.
[cite]Posted By: Imissthepeanutman[/cite]So on a windswept bumpy pitch why did everybody expect us to turn up and stuff them. Cos we were in the Premiership for a few years!!
quality quote, best this year, nice one peanut man misser, i fully agree with that
[cite]Posted By: Imissthepeanutman[/cite]So on a windswept bumpy pitch why did everybody expect us to turn up and stuff them. Cos we were in the Premiership for a few years!!
quality quote, best this year, nice one peanut man misser, i fully agree with that
I can only speak for myself but Pards identified these two away games (Blackpool and Sheffield United) as must win whilst taking a swipe at our away support having previously moaned about away fans in the Jimmy seed and sneered at one of our dearest traditions, Red, Red, Robin.
Pards himself upped the ante on expectation levels that is firstly why I'm so p**d off with him secondly because I don't like my Club or it's traditions being ridiculed.
Im not up on Pards comments on Red Red Robin but on other matters I think he has tried to be fair and balanced in what he has said. Identifying Blackpool and Sheff Utd as must win games was I think in the context of auto promotion. And he was right.
By saying what he did he was not raising the expectation just pointing out a fact. He said all along that Blackpool would be a tough fixture.
I think Sheff Utd will be just as tough.
Has he seriously 'ridiculed' this club. I dont think so.
I think perhaps your suggestion of a week in Aberdeen might have been better given the conditions.
I thought it was a classic.
When we played Blackpool at home it all came together and we won as I have said with a scoreline that I think flattered us. Yesterday was the reverse, lots of mistakes and incompetences. Everyones digging at the defence but if Andy Gray had put away the one on one early on who knows.
Everyones disappointed but some of the negativity has been overdone I feel.
[cite]Posted By: Imissthepeanutman[/cite]Im not up on Pards comments on Red Red Robin but on other matters I think he has tried to be fair and balanced in what he has said. Identifying Blackpool and Sheff Utd as must win games was I think in the context of auto promotion. And he was right.
By saying what he did he was not raising the expectation just pointing out a fact. He said all along that Blackpool would be a tough fixture.
I think Sheff Utd will be just as tough.
Has he seriously 'ridiculed' this club. I dont think so.
You are right to be "a voice of reason" I normally am myself.
I think what I want from Pardew is a bit of "the buck stops with me" attitude Curbs used to show and the lack of that is what is annoying in the aftermath of a disappointing defeat.
The rest of the season starts here though and hopefully pride if nothing else might help them to get something against Sheffield United.
Comments
I used to think that you might have just been a pessimistic fan of the golfaddick variety, but after that comment, I KNOW you MUST be on a wind-up.
Shame, isn´t it. I´m stumpted and pissed off. But, I´m sure if we beat Sheff Utd, we´ll all be alot happier. Football is a very fickle game.
All this money talk is why I want the Arse to win the Prem. I don´t like them much, but teams like Chelski and now Glazer Utd make me sick. And that challenge on Edwardo was EVIL.
It was totally embarrassing. Dickov was superb for them. Their two small strikers supported by two small, quick wingers just ran rings around us. OK the ground was almost conference standard & there was a gale force wind blowing down the pitch, having gathered speed as it crossed the Irish Sea, but we showed no fight or desire at all.
I've got a ticket for Sheffield next Saturday but there is no way I am going all that way again.
It was also very disturbing to see the way the players turned on Halford after his cock up lead to the 4th goal. I thought Paddy was going to thump him. Even Matty displayed open disgust. There is something not right in this team & I fear that Pards has a real battle on his hands to keep us in the play off spots now.
Curbishley will grind out win after win but bore you to death after a few years. Pardew builds teams with attacking flair - we have had an entertaining 14 months and the next 14 will be equally interesting.
Automatic promotion was never really on the cards after Dec/jan points tally so now we just need the team to gel (as it did vs Palace) in the run in and hope we can beat the likes of Watford in the play off semis
We all know that whatever happens the club will be in a completely different shape by May 2009 so lets enjoy the ride
1. Against Sheff Wed, why did we not have Basey on the bench especially when Pards decided to take off Youga at half-time?
2. Against Watford, why didn't Pards not have Semedo on the bench which would have been the obvious change to have made at half time to protect the two goal lead?
3. Against Watford and Blackpool, why the hell didn't he play Sodje instead of Fortune?
4. Why play a semi-fit Cook today instead of a fit Sam or Thomas?
5. Against Sheff Wed, Blackpool and pretty much all our away games since just before Christmas, why has Pards abandoned 4-5-1 which delivered such a good away record earlier in the season?
My biggest problem with Pards is that sometimes he tries to be too clever for his own good. I also blame players who didn't fancy it today, presumably because of the scummy surroundings and the strong wind?
As for the future, well unless Magic is fit, (and maybe even if he is), Sodje needs to play - we need a commanding presence. I also think that Semedo needs to come back in to the team, especially away from home.
Those who were prepared for us to beat Palarse but fail to go up maybe wondering why they wished for it?
Average Fortune performance = SHIT, easily being caught out of position.
Basey had a fair performance in my opinion, being next to Fortune can't help him?
Halford also had a fair performace imo. But when ZZ, Ambrose and Gray give the ball away so easily, it's not exactly going to help the defence. ZZ seriously need's to open his eyes (no pun intended) and spot a player with space, gives the ball away far too cheaply.
Cook impressed me, showed some experience and could spot a good pass. Varney also worked hard.
Actually thought we played some good stuff in some parts, which we should be doing against a team full of clementines. But still most certainly not good enough.
Roll on Shefield....
waste...
And why did he take so long to start playing 4-4-2 at home? It seems to take him months to see something that is blatantly obvious to the vast majority.
I'm afraid, as Len said, Pards thinks he is too good for Charlton. He is a big time Charlie (drives a Ferrari doesn't he?). This attitude has to rub off on the players, hence the reason we get turned over by all the bottom teams and do well against the best teams.
Should have taken the team to Bogner for the week rather than Marbellla. Reward them when when they start consistently achieving and not before.
I don't think we have a weak squad, in fact I think we have a very strong squad, the problems are A) Wrong formation (tactics) B) Poor team selection C)Lack of motivation
When Pardew first came we got a few results and things started to look good but at the business end it went bad and we went down.
Sold most of the team so got the players for this league to get us up. At the start it was must have time to gel. We are still in the play off places but only because this is a poor league.
The loan signings have not set the team a light and they should or why have them if they aint much better than we already have.
What to do from now I dont know but we should do some thing.
Pardew picks the team how many on here would pick Fortune?,
I wouldn't but some how he is picked.
I will still stay up til late oclock to follow the team with no radio coverage because all said and done
I am Charlton til I die
I think that, when Pards arrived we where 8 pts from safety. At the end of the season we had a 5 pt gap. So all in all we made up 3 pts in half a season.
Didn't go yesterday, but went to scunny, I think the blame has to go to both the players and Pards between them they should be able to sort it out. All we ask is that a bit of effort is put in and some pride in the shirt. I don't expect us to win every game, but I do expect us to try to win every game.
A couple of weeks ago against Palarse I really thought we were on the move. Some of the football we played was superb and Palarse hardly had a sniff. Ok they weren't anything special but our players were focussed, up for it and skillful. By all accounts though, especially yesterday, the team looked over-confident and with too little desire; why?
I just wonder if there's some unhappiness behind the scenes and going on a training camp under those circumstances may have made things worse not better.
1. Why is Sodje not on the teamsheet, bearing in mind he was our best defender and made a huge difference to our defensive stability before he was suspended/injured?
2. What is the position regarding Thomas? He has had some mystery illness/injury but he should be inked onto the team sheet every week.
3. Semedo was extremely effective for much of the first part of the season but he's now been relegated to a bit part player.
4. Moo2 who Pards was raving about at the start of the season, has had his position taken by two different loan players.
5. Racon has hardly had a sniff.
6. Youga coming back has been good on the pitch but maybe it's had a damaging effect off it.
7. McLeod must be wondering why he ever signed for us.
The team that started the season has changed radically from the one which started yesterday and that could lead to a poisonous atmosphere behind the scenes. I'm not in the know, so this is mere speculation but team bonding is a very good thing to have but things can easily go awry if there are too many around with personal agendas.
I also wonder what effect the selling of Reid had on morale, bearing in mind he seemed to be a very popular player to have around the club.
In the end though we need to get back on track against the Blades. I think Pards will shuffle the pack again so at least some who are unhappy might get their chance.
Come on you Reds!!
It sure seemed different to from where I was sat at Bloomfield Road..............
It was worse.
Conditions my arse. Didn't stop the home side banging them in......
I said this when 'they' sold Reidy. Same affect when Parker, Murphy, Smertin all went for a fast buck.
Pardew hasn't bought the right type of player for this division, fair enough he wants to play good football but you need a few solid players that don't take any prisoners.
In fact I reckon Dowie would have at least built a team that would fight in this division.
But he was a crap Prem manager and he had to go.
I think Pardew will turn it around given half a chance, but I really feel this year is gonna be a write off, I just can't see us stringing a run together, we are too inconsistent.
Theres no point getting rid of Pards, a new manager will need time to bed in and would prob want to change half the team again.
But if he walked I wouldn't feel bad about it, infact I think I might almost cheer a bit - The thought of Parky as manager - Woo hoo!!! ;-)
I agree with you that he has had more than long enough to get his own players in. The majority of which are not up to the job, they are mostly average Championship players.
I just feel we need to toughen up, but given that the transfer window has now closed thats not gonna happen now, so we have to grin and bear it until we can get some tough tackling ball winning players in our central midfield positions. Holland is doing ok but he's not getting any younger, if he was to get injured I think we would really in trouble, our midfield is a joke, they are all pansies!
Taking the squad to Spain to prepare??? They should have gone to Aberdeen. At least some of them have now got nice tans...
Someone earlier said we'd had 14 months of entertainment from Pardew. I can think of many words to describe it, but that isn't one of them. I can't help but wonder if the reason he allegedly left West Ham makes it a bit difficult for him to earn the respect of the squad.
We are discrediting Blackpool who were better than us in every department on the day. I also dont think they were so poor when we beat them 4-1.
Of the so called top teams at Bloomfield Road they have drawn with Bristol City,Plymouth,Palace and Ipswich. They have yet to play WBA and Watford. Stoke won there 3-2.
So on a windswept bumpy pitch why did everybody expect us to turn up and stuff them. Cos we were in the Premiership for a few years!!
Blackpool reminded me of Charlton about 15 years ago. A club on the up, trying to rebuild their ground bit by bit and players giving 110%.
Football is unpredictable. Thank Goodness.
We need to play 4-4-2 at home and 4-5-1 away.
He changed from 4-5-1 to 4-4-2 and then we started winning more at home and losing away. It seems bleedin obvious Pards at least give it a go.
quality quote, best this year, nice one peanut man misser, i fully agree with that
I can only speak for myself but Pards identified these two away games (Blackpool and Sheffield United) as must win whilst taking a swipe at our away support having previously moaned about away fans in the Jimmy seed and sneered at one of our dearest traditions, Red, Red, Robin.
Pards himself upped the ante on expectation levels that is firstly why I'm so p**d off with him secondly because I don't like my Club or it's traditions being ridiculed.
By saying what he did he was not raising the expectation just pointing out a fact. He said all along that Blackpool would be a tough fixture.
I think Sheff Utd will be just as tough.
Has he seriously 'ridiculed' this club. I dont think so.
Unfortunately he didn't seem to prepare the team with that in mind.
The weather and the pitch were the same for both teams - they still managed to play some nice football. We were clueless.
I thought it was a classic.
When we played Blackpool at home it all came together and we won as I have said with a scoreline that I think flattered us. Yesterday was the reverse, lots of mistakes and incompetences. Everyones digging at the defence but if Andy Gray had put away the one on one early on who knows.
Everyones disappointed but some of the negativity has been overdone I feel.
You are right to be "a voice of reason" I normally am myself.
I think what I want from Pardew is a bit of "the buck stops with me" attitude Curbs used to show and the lack of that is what is annoying in the aftermath of a disappointing defeat.
The rest of the season starts here though and hopefully pride if nothing else might help them to get something against Sheffield United.