does the determination to blame Curbs override all reason?
curbs got lucky for years and he was lucky enough to know when to go cos he would have got us relegated as well and he's done that b4....
it was just a fluke we went up with him and stayed there ffs
CURBS= CHARLTON MIRACLE WORKER... FACT
I'm not entirely sure who you're aiming this at but I don't remember seeing anyone on here who has an opinion that even closely represents this.
We all know that Curbs was a God for what he achieved with us. Nobody can ever dispute that. However, it was obvious that he lost interest in the job before Xmas in his final season. After that he was basically going through the motions. Richard Murray saw what was happening & stepped in to help him out the door. Thanks for everything Curbs & good luck for the future. You will always be a legend in my eyes.
If we want to blame someone, then look no further than Scottie Parker. Curbs saw him as the key to taking us to the next level - cup success and/ or Europe, and until he did the dirty on us, that's where we were heading. That knocked the belief out of Curbs and was the beginning of the end for him and CAFC. I've heard it from the man himself. How ironic that they are now back together over the river.
Len, it's not about slagging Curbs off - because what he did for Charlton must be acknowledged and appreciated.
But from his comments at the time and his team tactics it seemed apparent that he was out of ideas and out of energy. He always said he would know when it was time to move on - and he did.
The team he left behind was unbalanced, stale and past it's sell by date.
If Curbs had stayed, he would have known that team needed major surgery.
He was only prepared to see out his existing contract - that in itself tells you that he had no appetite to rebuild.
In anycase, the man was at the time burned out - which was why he decided to take 6 months out of the game to recuperate.
Murray could see this - if Curbs had lost his appetite then it was time to move him on with dignity intact.
If Curbs had stayed to see out his contract, then my feeling is that it would have all ended in tears anyway.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]Len, it's not about slagging Curbs off - because what he did for Charlton must be acknowledged and appreciated.
But from his comments at the time and his team tactics it seemed apparent that he was out of ideas and out of energy. He always said he would know when it was time to move on - and he did.
The team he left behind was unbalanced, stale and past it's sell by date.
If Curbs had stayed, he would have known that team needed major surgery.
He was only prepared to see out his existing contract - that in itself tells you that he had no appetite to rebuild.
In anycase, the man was at the time burned out - which was why he decided to take 6 months out of the game to recuperate.
Murray could see this - if Curbs had lost his appetite then it was time to move him on with dignity intact.
If Curbs had stayed to see out his contract, then my feeling is that it would have all ended in tears anyway.
I can see all that.
My point is simply that Dowie spent £11 million on dross or sicknotes which amounted to half a team.
I fail to see that Curbs can be blamed for that!
Yes the team did need "major surgery" when Curbs went but it was Murray's decision to let Curbs go when he did rather than allow Curbs to carry out that surgery prior to departure or alternatively keep some continuity by appointing Keith Peacock as caretaker until the right man (Pards) became available.
So again I cannot see why Curbs is being blamed!
However it is all water under the bridge and we have as good a manager as we realistically can hope for given our budgetary constraints.
We need to get behind him and the team especially at The Valley.
[cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]Scottie Parker & Curbs . How ironic that they are now back together over the river.
that hurts and was probably when the side peaked...
plus if parker had stayed we might not have lost to gillingham in the cup and we'd have had burnley, millwall, tranmere, sunderland( i think that was the route) and been in a cup final that year instead of them muppets.... now that really hurt
PITL one day i'll get over it, hopefully when we're promoted this season;-)
[cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]Scottie Parker & Curbs . How ironic that they are now back together over the river.
that hurts and was probably when the side peaked...
plus if parker had stayed we might not have lost to gillingham in the cup and we'd have had burnley, millwall, tranmere, sunderland( i think that was the route) and been in a cup final that year instead of them muppets.... now that really hurt
PITL one day i'll get over it, hopefully when we're promoted this season;-)
Let it all go OohAhh - it's not healthy! You're getting yourself all het up about stuff you can't change. Let it all go, live in the present. You'll feel better for it.
The team on THAT night wouldn't beat the current team......FACT.
Out of that starting 11 only Carson, Fortune, Thomas and baby Bent would get into today's team and if ohah mortimer thinks that a central midfield pairing of Hughes and Faye is better than Reid and ZZ then I want some of what he's on.
Curbs started the rot by leaving us with the likes of Hughes, Kish & M Bent and leaving the likes of Sam in the reserves and p*****g off the likes of Muphy, Parker. C Cole and Keily so much that they wanted to leave. Whoever took over that squad neede to spen money, but Dowie then compounded the problem by buying Traore, Walton, Faye and Hasslebaink. Reed didn't have any time or money to do what he would have liked or needed, but then again his tactics lacked originality and shows why the FA have appounted Capello than someone who has been at the heart of Englands coaching for the past 10 years.
That night will always be remembered as the time I ripped MY shirt off my back and threw it at the players as I ws so disgusted at their attitude/performance that I couldn't bear to be wearing the same shirt as them.
[cite]Posted By: golfaddick[/cite]The team on THAT night wouldn't beat the current team......FACT.
Out of that starting 11 only Carson, Fortune, Thomas and baby Bent would get into today's team and if ohah mortimer thinks that a central midfield pairing of Hughes and Faye is better than Reid and ZZ then I want some of what he's on
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]
I think the current squad is worse than the one we had a year ago but that was inevitable with relegation
It went wrong with a crap appointment of Dowie, a cheap option they should of spent some real dosh on a top manager might of saved them some money in the long wrong but the deed has been done.
[cite]Posted By: ThreadKiller[/cite]how far did we get in the cup this year?
But that's exactly what made it so bad - we travelled down from Scotland for a midweek match right before Christmas on the basis that it could be Charlton's biggest match for a long time (relegation was already looming). We didn't expect to witness a pile of inept rubbish with little skill, no heart and no commitment. I still think I should have sent the bill for our travel and hotel to the club, and in particular Mr J Thomas and Mr M Bent.
[quote][cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]the team that played that fateful night carson sankofa diawara fortune traore rommedahl faye hughes thomas m bent d bent
unused subs mhyre el kack used subs holland sam hasslebaink[/quote]
What a team and how it let us down. Holland and Carson both came out of it with credit for applauding the crowd at the end. I remember Thomas by the touch line losing possession of the ball with a shrug of the shoulder and standing watching the Wycombe player run off with it and I remember the 1st time I had seen all 3 home sides of the ground in unison singing your not fit to wear the shirt and finally realising that despite my support for him dennis would never come good and we should ship him out in the window.
We have come a long way, some 0f that journey is positive:- team spirit, manager, winning more than we lose and some negative:- quality of players, quality of division and some not changed away support :-) Overall I would say I am happier with supporting Charlton today than I was a year ago.
I don't think we'd be anywhere near the size of club we are without Curbishley, but I couldn't be happier that he's not our manager any more. He quite frankly bored me. To the point where I didn't even bother reading his post-match comments anymore because whatever the result or performance, they came from a five line script that he used for years and years and years. And is subsequently still using at West Ham!
Sometimes we did play good football. But as soon as it was figured out, we were f***d. As someone else said there was never a plan b. Could anyone honestly see Curbishley doing what Pardew did for the 2nd half when we had 10 men against Southampton? Intuitive, improvised tactical nous. I personally find it exciting having a manager like that and I'd rather be in the championship with Pardew then in the Premiership with Curbishley right now. Because I know if we do make it back to the top-flight, Pards is going to have a proper crack at it and we won't be playing 1-0 football aiming for 40 points and then season over.
I just pissed myself laughing when he actually said "well a premiership team has to win it......." etc re Wet Sham in the Carling Cup Quarter Finals..... and *then* lost!!
He's a legend BUT is highly responsible for our relegation, especially for the latter two thirds of the season he went... pathetic, and HIGHLY unacceptable. Especially with the players we *did* have. With someone who gave a toss at that time, I think we could have done well.
Though I think the stuff that happened after that, the blame must lie with the board.
Spot on Chunes - apart from that golden spell of about 10 games with Murphy, Kish & Smertin the last three years under Curbishley were, it has to be admitted, pretty dire. I wish we had gone down a few years earlier because were in need of a new manager and regeneration of the squad.
[cite]Posted By: Salad[/cite]Spot on Chunes - apart from that golden spell of about 10 games with Murphy, Kish & Smertin the last three years under Curbishley were, it has to be admitted, pretty dire. I wish we had gone down a few years earlier because were in need of a new manager and regeneration of the squad.
Heh. Hindsight's a beautiful thing. But it's true here.
Wycombe *needed* to happen - I remember saying it on the night. Without it, Uncle Les might have plodded on for a few more games and Pardew may have gone elsewhere. I remember walking up Floyd Road behind a journalist on the phone to his newsdesk, telling them that Les Reed wasn't going to speak. Despite what's said in public, that's got to have been the night that sealed his fate.
With all the comments recently about the squad Curbs left us with, Murray said it as he saw it:
"You have to look at what went on before," added Murray. "Apart from Iain's signings, this is the squad Alan Curbishley left us with. Maybe Curbs had that ability of getting a bit more out of some players.
I think the Curbs stuff has been done to death but
Curbs stayed too long and if anything was too loyal to Charlton Murray was probably too loyal to Curbs and should have brought the matter to a head sooner
But the Murray/Curbs Charlton Story is a fantastic chapter in our clubs history and its just a shame that this criticism lingers. Its impossible to get all of these things right all of the time.
If the criticism is that too much loyalty was shown in this case then I am proud of that in this age of such short termism.
Wycombe a year ago was more an anti-climax, and typically Charlton. Of course it was a low. But I could cope with that because it wasn't three points lost. A few days later was one of the all time lows - possibly the worst in my 40 odd years supporting Charlton. The travelling support at Middlesborough was in double figures - quite literally there were less than 100 of us there. And the team couldn't give a toss. It wasn't just the losing, we've seen them lose before. It was just that all we'd strived for over the years was crumbling before our eyes.
Today it's much better, but we've taken several massive steps backwards and it'll take a few years to rebuild. But it feels like we're in the ascendancy again. And that's a good feeling.
Comments
I'm not entirely sure who you're aiming this at but I don't remember seeing anyone on here who has an opinion that even closely represents this.
But from his comments at the time and his team tactics it seemed apparent that he was out of ideas and out of energy. He always said he would know when it was time to move on - and he did.
The team he left behind was unbalanced, stale and past it's sell by date.
If Curbs had stayed, he would have known that team needed major surgery.
He was only prepared to see out his existing contract - that in itself tells you that he had no appetite to rebuild.
In anycase, the man was at the time burned out - which was why he decided to take 6 months out of the game to recuperate.
Murray could see this - if Curbs had lost his appetite then it was time to move him on with dignity intact.
If Curbs had stayed to see out his contract, then my feeling is that it would have all ended in tears anyway.
Apologies Len - intention wasn't for that to read as if it'd been aimed at you.
I can see all that.
My point is simply that Dowie spent £11 million on dross or sicknotes which amounted to half a team.
I fail to see that Curbs can be blamed for that!
Yes the team did need "major surgery" when Curbs went but it was Murray's decision to let Curbs go when he did rather than allow Curbs to carry out that surgery prior to departure or alternatively keep some continuity by appointing Keith Peacock as caretaker until the right man (Pards) became available.
So again I cannot see why Curbs is being blamed!
However it is all water under the bridge and we have as good a manager as we realistically can hope for given our budgetary constraints.
We need to get behind him and the team especially at The Valley.
that hurts and was probably when the side peaked...
plus if parker had stayed we might not have lost to gillingham in the cup and we'd have had burnley, millwall, tranmere, sunderland( i think that was the route) and been in a cup final that year instead of them muppets.... now that really hurt
PITL one day i'll get over it, hopefully when we're promoted this season;-)
Let it all go OohAhh - it's not healthy! You're getting yourself all het up about stuff you can't change. Let it all go, live in the present. You'll feel better for it.
Out of that starting 11 only Carson, Fortune, Thomas and baby Bent would get into today's team and if ohah mortimer thinks that a central midfield pairing of Hughes and Faye is better than Reid and ZZ then I want some of what he's on.
Curbs started the rot by leaving us with the likes of Hughes, Kish & M Bent and leaving the likes of Sam in the reserves and p*****g off the likes of Muphy, Parker. C Cole and Keily so much that they wanted to leave. Whoever took over that squad neede to spen money, but Dowie then compounded the problem by buying Traore, Walton, Faye and Hasslebaink. Reed didn't have any time or money to do what he would have liked or needed, but then again his tactics lacked originality and shows why the FA have appounted Capello than someone who has been at the heart of Englands coaching for the past 10 years.
That night will always be remembered as the time I ripped MY shirt off my back and threw it at the players as I ws so disgusted at their attitude/performance that I couldn't bear to be wearing the same shirt as them.
This time, though, I've got to largely agree with you.
In any case, Gibbs, Faye & Hasslebaink were always Curbs' targets and if Curbs had stayed, they would no doubt have signed for him.
And Les Reed never signed anybody.
But that's exactly what made it so bad - we travelled down from Scotland for a midweek match right before Christmas on the basis that it could be Charlton's biggest match for a long time (relegation was already looming). We didn't expect to witness a pile of inept rubbish with little skill, no heart and no commitment. I still think I should have sent the bill for our travel and hotel to the club, and in particular Mr J Thomas and Mr M Bent.
carson
sankofa diawara fortune traore
rommedahl faye hughes thomas
m bent d bent
unused subs mhyre el kack used subs holland sam hasslebaink[/quote]
What a team and how it let us down. Holland and Carson both came out of it with credit for applauding the crowd at the end. I remember Thomas by the touch line losing possession of the ball with a shrug of the shoulder and standing watching the Wycombe player run off with it and I remember the 1st time I had seen all 3 home sides of the ground in unison singing your not fit to wear the shirt and finally realising that despite my support for him dennis would never come good and we should ship him out in the window.
We have come a long way, some 0f that journey is positive:- team spirit, manager, winning more than we lose and some negative:- quality of players, quality of division and some not changed away support :-) Overall I would say I am happier with supporting Charlton today than I was a year ago.
Sometimes we did play good football. But as soon as it was figured out, we were f***d. As someone else said there was never a plan b. Could anyone honestly see Curbishley doing what Pardew did for the 2nd half when we had 10 men against Southampton? Intuitive, improvised tactical nous. I personally find it exciting having a manager like that and I'd rather be in the championship with Pardew then in the Premiership with Curbishley right now. Because I know if we do make it back to the top-flight, Pards is going to have a proper crack at it and we won't be playing 1-0 football aiming for 40 points and then season over.
I just pissed myself laughing when he actually said "well a premiership team has to win it......." etc re Wet Sham in the Carling Cup Quarter Finals..... and *then* lost!!
He's a legend BUT is highly responsible for our relegation, especially for the latter two thirds of the season he went... pathetic, and HIGHLY unacceptable. Especially with the players we *did* have. With someone who gave a toss at that time, I think we could have done well.
Though I think the stuff that happened after that, the blame must lie with the board.
Heh. Hindsight's a beautiful thing. But it's true here.
Wycombe *needed* to happen - I remember saying it on the night. Without it, Uncle Les might have plodded on for a few more games and Pardew may have gone elsewhere. I remember walking up Floyd Road behind a journalist on the phone to his newsdesk, telling them that Les Reed wasn't going to speak. Despite what's said in public, that's got to have been the night that sealed his fate.
"but I had never heard of Diawara, apparently the best centre-half you've never heard of."
mirror
With all the comments recently about the squad Curbs left us with, Murray said it as he saw it:
"You have to look at what went on before," added Murray. "Apart from Iain's signings, this is the squad Alan Curbishley left us with. Maybe Curbs had that ability of getting a bit more out of some players.
Curbs stayed too long and if anything was too loyal to Charlton
Murray was probably too loyal to Curbs and should have brought the matter to a head sooner
But the Murray/Curbs Charlton Story is a fantastic chapter in our clubs history and its just a shame that this criticism lingers. Its impossible to get all of these things right all of the time.
If the criticism is that too much loyalty was shown in this case then I am proud of that in this age of such short termism.
Today it's much better, but we've taken several massive steps backwards and it'll take a few years to rebuild. But it feels like we're in the ascendancy again. And that's a good feeling.